Frame paint?

[mneblett]

Hi, all -- next Q in my 1988 R100RT rebuild --

I've now extracted this:

from this:

I would like to touch up the main frame paint in a number of areas. My first thought is to do small touch-up re-spraying, rather than having to bite the bullet and fully strip the frame (wiring, forks/steering head, RT bracket headlight, brake line, etc.). On the other hand, I already know I need to strip out the steering head to inspect and re-pack the steering head bearings, so I will be maybe 50% of the rest of the way to a full frame strip.

Advice? Comments? Rattle can or full strip and send out for a pro re-spray (or even powder coating)?

Recognizing that most of the frame will be hidden from view by the RT fairing, my number #1 priority is corrosion protection.

I'm thinking (at least as of 10:55 PM on 10/31!) of cleaning, prepping and spraying the entire lower 3/4 of the frame (i.e., the "U"-shaped double tubes below the backbone) and calling it a day. There are no scratches/bad paint areas with the backbone or the steering head, so this approach would avoid a fair amount of what seems like unnecessary work removing the wiring, etc.

If I go with painting the lower 3/4, what I need more than anything else is your paint recommentations -- your suggestions?

Thanks,
Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA
A gaggle of boxers

 

[RecycledRS]

You've out lined all the pros and cons, its really up to you. If you can find a good match to the semi-gloss black a touchup mite work well and save $. I choose to re-paint since I wanted to strip the bike right down (for my peace of mind).
<a href="http://s131.photobucket.com/albums/p285/79cafe/BMW/?action=view&current=078.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p285/79cafe/BMW/078.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[mneblett]

You've out lined all the pros and cons, its really up to you. If you can find a good match to the semi-gloss black a touchup mite work well and save $. I choose to re-paint since I wanted to strip the bike right down (for my peace of mind).
<a href="http://s131.photobucket.com/albums/p285/79cafe/BMW/?action=view&current=078.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p285/79cafe/BMW/078.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Thanks for the input, Recycled --

Did you do the paint yourself, or have it done? If yourself, what paint did you use?

One more Q: your engine cases are immaculate -- what did you do to get them into that condition?

Thanks,
Mark

 

[habdala]

You've out lined all the pros and cons, its really up to you. If you can find a good match to the semi-gloss black a touchup mite work well and save $. I choose to re-paint since I wanted to strip the bike right down (for my peace of mind).
<a href="http://s131.photobucket.com/albums/p285/79cafe/BMW/?action=view&current=078.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p285/79cafe/BMW/078.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Wow! I was looking at your project and you did or doing a great job.

Sorry for the hijack.

 

[RecycledRS]

Well after getting the round around from two different powder coaters I decided to spray it with satin Krylon. I'm pleased with the result and should be able to easily touchup future chips and scraps if need be. I have heard others recommend Krylon so thought I would try it.

 

[habdala]

Your frame looks new, l will retouch the bottom part if need be now, you are almost to the point where another 2 hours of work will free the frame from wires and front end if you have to replace the bearings I will repaint the whole thing. Powder coat will be better if you want to have a peace on mine for a long time. Here is mine I might be ready for powder by the end of this week.

Good luck!

 

[Yarddog]

I've probably got the same decisions to make because I'm doin' the same project you are...here's my plan...hope it helps you...when I get the frame down to its minimum, I'm gonna take a look at any corrosion or nasty spots...if there aren't many, I'll work those areas as necessary to bare metal, use PCL self-etching primer, then ScotchBrite the rest of the frame and use PCL 'Flat Black' two part paint used to finish those primer hot rods for a satin (AKA semi-gloss) finish...this stuff is some of the best stuff I have ever seen for chassis black...two parts covers extremely well, it holds up well, and it is economical...

If, on the other hand, the majority of the original frame finish is screwed up, I will use KleanStrip Aircraft Stripper to strip the paint off the entire frame...I will use a pressure washer to rinse the stripper and paint off...this will probably take at least three or four goes to get all the paint off...I will then use the PCL self-etch primer over the bare metal, and when it flashes, use the PCL flat black paint for a final finish...

There's no way I would use rattle can paint on a motorcycle frame...not ever... I have the equipment and ability to use professional materials, and rattle can paint is necessarily as thin as water just to get it thru the little nozzles, and will not provide a very thick coat...it's also a drag to hold that nozzle down long enough to paint the frame, even if you use one of those trick little trigger handles...

On the other hand, DO NOT build the paint coat too much, nor use a base/clear coat on the frame...paint that is too thick will cause problems of its own...as I learned on my Harley project a year ago...

You will often spend more time trying to do as little as possible to get by on a frame repaint than you would if you just bit the bullet and used high quality materials and techniques to strip and recoat it in the first place...I realize that not everybody is equipped like I am to do this, however, if you want it done right, and you want to do it yourself, it's the only way to go...otherwise, pay a pro to do the work, but you won't like the results later if you cheap it out, regardless if the frame is hidden by a fairing or not!

I'm following your project as I do my own, and I appreciate you sharing your progress and pix with us!!!

 

[Yarddog]

One thing I'll be doin' a little different is that the aluminum on the engine is so bac that I'm gonna coat it with flat black, probably House of Kolor high temp black... Or maybe I'll see if Eastwood has some aluminum-colored paint that will adhere well to bare aluminum...I'm hesitant to use self-etching primer on the engine, as I don't want to get too much build on the surface for heat transfer reasons...

 

[boxermaf]

I've used POR "Chassis Black" paint for touchups and repainting the frame on my R65 and likely other bikes, too. If you're going to spray it, it will require some thinning as it is quite heavy stuff. But, I've found for just doing touchups - you can get good results with a brush! Just avoid the temptation to go back and fix up your brushmarks - the paint will settle and smooth itself as it cures, but if you keep going back with a brush to mess with it, you'll end up with a brush marked finish.

It seems to color match well on the 80's R-bikes I've used it on, and it is pretty tough paint.

 

[kwb210]

What prep before touch up?

I have the usual worn spots, and a little rust around the brake resorvior. What did you do to prepare the area for the POR chassis black paint? I'm looking not for beauty, but protection.
regarding powder coating the entire frame, what kind of dollars are you talkingabout after the frame is preped?
Thanks.
kurt

I've used POR "Chassis Black" paint for touchups and repainting the frame on my R65 and likely other bikes, too. If you're going to spray it, it will require some thinning as it is quite heavy stuff. But, I've found for just doing touchups - you can get good results with a brush! Just avoid the temptation to go back and fix up your brushmarks - the paint will settle and smooth itself as it cures, but if you keep going back with a brush to mess with it, you'll end up with a brush marked finish.

It seems to color match well on the 80's R-bikes I've used it on, and it is pretty tough paint.

 

[83014]

I used the POR-15 on my RT frame, but I did the whole frame with a gun. It was bare obviously. That has held up for 10 years but it was labor intensive. I'm now assembling a 1984 RS and went the powdercoat route with that one. Boxermaf's suggestion to use POR-15 as a touch up is probably the best way to go if you don't want to bare the frame. It is an excellent product.

 

[69zeff65]

some thoughts

Powder coat is nice and is pretty tough but you cannot touch it up as far as I know and you can't get it on any threded area as its real thick. Some chemical cleaners and automotive fluids will strip it right off the frame. If your gonna just go with a nice original paint with some touch up spots do this. Find and clean the touch-up spots with brake cleaner (tiny amounts), use 400 grit sand paper to remove rust, expose bare metal and feather the edges, let it sit indoors over night then use an artist brush to apply some of that por15 on the bare metal.
Then to get a good match for the frame paint either get some from a reliable source or take a painted part to an automotive paint shop. Use single stage with a hardner, if your gonna brush it NO reducer if your spaying (airbrush) follow directions. Before you paint use an automotive degreaser to clean the dust and debris from your touch up targets.

If your gonna repaint; aircraft paint stripper, about an hour and a half of sand-blasting (use very fine sand and just enough PSI to scuff the bare metal), wipe the whole thing down with PPG degreaser and put two thin coats of rattle-can "self-etching" primer, follow that with a color matching epoxy primer 1-2 light coats Then 2 coats single stage automotive finnish coat color of choice. let it sit about four days and then wax it good before you reassemble.
Its a lotta work, so if your just fixing some bad spots and aren't going to nit pick I'd touch it up if the rust isn't bad. por15 will go right over light rust and convert it to primer.

 

[Yarddog]

Powder coating has production advantages, not necessarily quality advantages. On the rusted areas of the frame, I'd put a wire brush wheel or Scotch Bright pad on my die grinder...If you strip the frame, work the bad areas, self-etch and finish, it's really not all that labor intensive, in my book, but maybe it's because it ain't no thang to me, I've done it so much...in fact, in my opinion, it's probably much easier to let the aircraft stripper do its thing, wash it real good, then self etch and paint over that...no need to scuff it with abrasives between coat if you just let the primer flash, wait about a half hour, then finish coat...and it will look good for a long time

 

[boxermaf]

Like the other guys suggested, if I'm using POR, I generally use some 400 or 600 grit paper and/or wire brush to clean up the rusted areas. You don't HAVE to get to absolutely pure bare metal with this stuff, but obviosuly the smoother you can make the surface, the better the final result will be.

 

[r80andr100rt]

Good old Rustoleum semi gloss black is an excellent match for factory paint.

 

[kantuckid]

Spray can paint is better as you spend more, but never up to the quality of an air gun paint. As to powder coat, I think it a waste. Look at any powder coated black trailer hitch on any PU truck that is @ least a couple of years old and report back what you see? I read something not so long ago, written by a coatings engineer that told powder coatings were not superior to solvent applied coatings, just a different cure/application means. It is note worthy that you do not see powder coatings on high end vehicles or their parts.
For those out there that have never sprayed custom mixed paints: go to Harbor Freight(I know they sell lots of junk-but the Chinese guns spray just fine for the casual user) and buy a spray gun, use it with a moisture control device(I like the paper roll version) and paint something! Initially practice with some older paint from a body shop friend on one of his throw away doors. Do what I did as a kid and make your self a nuisance in every shop you can find that does something you don't know much about, but find interesting!!! I will say that rattle can paint seems to last forever when the gangbangers are the users?

 

[Yarddog]

Spray can paint is better as you spend more, but never up to the quality of an air gun paint. As to powder coat, I think it a waste. Look at any powder coated black trailer hitch on any PU truck that is @ least a couple of years old and report back what you see? I read something not so long ago, written by a coatings engineer that told powder coatings were not superior to solvent applied coatings, just a different cure/application means. It is note worthy that you do not see powder coatings on high end vehicles or their parts.
For those out there that have never sprayed custom mixed paints: go to Harbor Freight(I know they sell lots of junk-but the Chinese guns spray just fine for the casual user) and buy a spray gun, use it with a moisture control device(I like the paper roll version) and paint something! Initially practice with some older paint from a body shop friend on one of his throw away doors. Do what I did as a kid and make your self a nuisance in every shop you can find that does something you don't know much about, but find interesting!!! I will say that rattle can paint seems to last forever when the gangbangers are the users?

True this...guys, don't work this frame coating to death!!! It's a frame, not the body of a Ferrari, and if you get a run where nobody sees it, so what? Also, don't use too fine a grit of abrasives...the paint needs some tooth so it will stick to the bare metal or to the substrate... If you are going to use self-etching enamel, it doesn't matter much anyway, as long as you aren't actually polishing the metal. If you use good quality stuff, the results will be fine...the PCL material I have referred to is middle of the road quality...there's better, and then there is junk... Not sure if the better quality stuff will make a noticeable difference on the frame, but the junk sure will! And I put rattle can paint of ANY quality in with the junk, because it's so thin...has to be to get the material thru the nozzle...

I haven't tried the Harbor Freight paint equipment yet, although I have one of their guns...again, no reason why it shouldn't work ok on a frame...