• Welcome, Guest! We hope you enjoy the excellent technical knowledge, event information and discussions that the BMW MOA forum provides. Some forum content will be hidden from you if you remain logged out. If you want to view all content, please click the 'Log in' button above and enter your BMW MOA username and password.

    If you are not an MOA member, why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the BMW Owners News magazine, and all of the discounts and benefits the BMW MOA offers?

  • Beginning April 1st, and running through April 30th, there is a new 2024 BMW MOA Election discussion area within The Club section of the forum. Within this forum area is also a sticky post that provides the ground rules for participating in the Election forum area. Also, the candidates statements are provided. Please read before joining the conversation, because the rules are very specific to maintain civility.

    The Election forum is here: Election Forum

32 mm Bing carb question(s)

Thanks for your reply. The stock jetting on an airhead is set for sea level, so the stock jetting works well up to 5000 ft, if you are consistently over that then re-jet the main, to limit the amount of fuel available. Changing mains, clip positions or needle main jets are fairly major changes. I found through my experience that the engine was slightly deader with a 2.68 needle jet, but it ran better with the stock set up. I changed the pilot jet because it was a very cold blooded bike at startup. Once I changed the pilot jet to a # 50, cold start, idle when hot etc all got better. Bike pulled well throughout its rpm range and would still accelerate under load at road speeds. The main only comes into play at 3/4 and up throttle position, and basically only really matters for wide open throttle. If the bike keeps accelerating at say 60 mph + (with minimal wind conditions ) then you are good at the main jet.

The slightly larger pilot jet allows the entire fuel circuit to be slightly richer as it never shuts off and is always adding gas to the intake air stream. If you talk to somebody who has gone to the Mikuni carbs, you'd be surprised how lean they are set up to run on an airhead. You get maximum power, at around 13.8 A/F mixture and when you consider that the stock jetting is getting you in the range of 14.6 A/F ( going down the highway at highway speeds, it is richer in the lower throttle positions ) it doesn't take much more fuel to get the engine in a happier position.

If the setup I ran with a sidecar rig, engine has to work much harder, with no lean indications, it likely will work well on any airhead running below 5000 ft altitude. I got the tip of the # 50 idle jet off a sidecar site, from a response form a question asked to a bing specialist. It worked for me, so I pass it on for what it's worth. Sorry I tend to get too long winded.
 
My 95 had slightly more vibration around 3800 rpm, in 5th, when compared to the areas above and below that point. A good carb sync helps a lot. Vibration can come from other areas, check that the motor mounts are torqued to factory specs, also vibrations can come from driveshafts.
 
You vibration may be peaking at or near a frame resonance rpm. Power difference may still be present at other rpms where you are not sensing them. Can you find an exhaust gas analyzer to look for a mixture discrepancy? Or do the spark plugs show anything different? You might check cyl head temps with a non-contacting pyrometer. or other gadget.
 
Thanks for your reply. The stock jetting on an airhead is set for sea level, so the stock jetting works well up to 5000 ft, if you are consistently over that then re-jet the main, to limit the amount of fuel available. Changing mains, clip positions or needle main jets are fairly major changes. I found through my experience that the engine was slightly deader with a 2.68 needle jet, but it ran better with the stock set up. I changed the pilot jet because it was a very cold blooded bike at startup. Once I changed the pilot jet to a # 50, cold start, idle when hot etc all got better. Bike pulled well throughout its rpm range and would still accelerate under load at road speeds. The main only comes into play at 3/4 and up throttle position, and basically only really matters for wide open throttle. If the bike keeps accelerating at say 60 mph + (with minimal wind conditions ) then you are good at the main jet.

The slightly larger pilot jet allows the entire fuel circuit to be slightly richer as it never shuts off and is always adding gas to the intake air stream. If you talk to somebody who has gone to the Mikuni carbs, you'd be surprised how lean they are set up to run on an airhead. You get maximum power, at around 13.8 A/F mixture and when you consider that the stock jetting is getting you in the range of 14.6 A/F ( going down the highway at highway speeds, it is richer in the lower throttle positions ) it doesn't take much more fuel to get the engine in a happier position.

If the setup I ran with a sidecar rig, engine has to work much harder, with no lean indications, it likely will work well on any airhead running below 5000 ft altitude. I got the tip of the # 50 idle jet off a sidecar site, from a response form a question asked to a bing specialist. It worked for me, so I pass it on for what it's worth. Sorry I tend to get too long winded.

I am about as far from being a Bing expert as there is, so I've used the Bing book and queried here on this forum and in a couple of other places for insight and guidance,,what I've received back has all been helpful. The jetting recommendations for these carbs on this bike isn't referenced in the Bing book but I did see a response from Bing tech support that recommended richer jets to compensate for lean stock setting for late model R100 bikes with these carbs (the lean settings to conform to emissions requirements at the time). Right now the engine performance seems to be fine, although I haven't done enough miles in various riding conditions to check my MPG. I'll run a couple more tanks (here in this part of Texas I'm able to get 90 octane ethanol free gas) of gas through the bike and re-check the plugs and the MPG. I appreciate your insight and feedback, thank you
 
still investigating,,,,

As a follow-up on the "issue" I've had with my bike, (pursuing carb settings and jets and so forth).

I started out with an anemic mid range and a a vibration that I thought was not indicative of a smooth running airhead. I had rebuilt the carbs (both were pretty cruddy inside and out, the left side more so than the right,,,if i knew how to post pictures of the carbs pre-rebuild here I would). I followed both the Brooks and Boxer2valve videos on carb rebuilds,,,,not saying I rebuilt them perfectly but I was very careful.

The carbs had the stock jets and clip position (135, 2.66, 45, pos 3) as per the Bing manual for these type carbs. I had seen a statement from Bing tech support that the late model R100 carbs were jetted lean for emissions purposes and their recommendation was for the following 145, 2.68, 48, pos 3.

before changing any jets I made sure the valves were adjusted properly, the timing was spot on and the gas was fresh 90 octane no ethanol. (i did not procure a 48 idle jet and I verified the clips were in pos 3)

I first changed just the needle jet to 2.68,,,checked the balance on the carbs and went thru two tanks of gas,,,,slightly better performance,,,,gas mileage was 35 MPG
Next I then also changed the main jet to 145 (keeping the needle jet at 2.68),,,,checked the balance of the carbs and went thru two tanks of gas,,,much better performance,,,,gas mileage was 31 mpg

So next step is to keep the needle jet at 2.68 and change the main jet to 140 (William at B2V recommended the 2.68)

I've also done three "high speed-shut-off motor-coast-to the side of the road and check plugs" checks,,,,perhaps strange that the first test (done before any jet swapping) showed a fair amount of somewhat oily sooty material on both plugs but the 2nd and 3rd test did not.
 
The best advice I can give is only change one thing at a time. Airheads don't like to be run rich. My R100 and I think most have a engine harmonic vibration in the 3200-3700 range that has nothing to do with carbs. It is just the nature of the beast. Sync gets it better but you can't get rid of all of it. Go to the Adventure Rider site, and there is lots of info on the 135 main jet. I have read information put out by a person who put a 02 sensor in the exhaust so that he could monitor AF mixture and he found that the 135 main was rich enough.

Your gas mileage reduction is a clue to me that you are running to rich for your location and the set up you are running. If you do some research into Mikuni Carbs on the airheads you'll find that they run them much leaner than a CV bing does. Your late model RT should run fine on 87 octane as they lowered the compression on those years to something in the range of 8.2-8.4 so doesn't need premium. You get better power out of regular than premium, as long as you don't get any pinging.
 
The best advice I can give is only change one thing at a time. Airheads don't like to be run rich. My R100 and I think most have a engine harmonic vibration in the 3200-3700 range that has nothing to do with carbs. It is just the nature of the beast. Sync gets it better but you can't get rid of all of it. Go to the Adventure Rider site, and there is lots of info on the 135 main jet. I have read information put out by a person who put a 02 sensor in the exhaust so that he could monitor AF mixture and he found that the 135 main was rich enough.

Your gas mileage reduction is a clue to me that you are running to rich for your location and the set up you are running. If you do some research into Mikuni Carbs on the airheads you'll find that they run them much leaner than a CV bing does. Your late model RT should run fine on 87 octane as they lowered the compression on those years to something in the range of 8.2-8.4 so doesn't need premium. You get better power out of regular than premium, as long as you don't get any pinging.

Roger that advice about changing only one variable at a time. I've been doing it that way since I started this investigation,,(one reason it's taking a bit of time). Yesterday afternoon I was reading a couple of documents by a husband and wife team that run rainbow aviation services in CA that discussed Bing CV type 64 carbs used on light aircraft. Excellent write up (i can't recall if I encountered those documents here or just by a google search). What caught my eye was a bit about having the enricher (choke) not closing all the way (due to cable issues/set-up) and the resulting poor low RPM and idle performance. While swapping the 145 for the 140 jet I noticed that indeed my choke was not closed entirely even with the lever in the closed position....both sides. so after swapping the jets I started the engine on full choke,,,reduced to partial choke after a few seconds and closed the choke (via the lever on the handlebar) completely shorty thereafter and checked whether the choke was really closed or not,,,,it was not. So closing by hand helped smooth out the idle. I didn't have time to take it out for a ride but later today I should be able to,,,I'll run a tank or two of gas thru it and see how it runs and what my MPG is and then perhaps go back to the 135 jet to see how that goes.

Thank you for your input, always helpful
Cheers
 
I give you a lot of credit

KJ, I give you a lot of credit in taking the proper steps in diagnosing your problems. Your first post shows the proper way to tune an airhead. Carbs should be the very last thing to mess with when tuning.

It is unfortunate you missed one step in fixing your problem and that was after rebuilding the carbs, and having less than desirable results, you didn't recheck your work. Perhaps, you might have found the choke problems before you ordered new jets needles and such and changed the originals out.

Most likely, you will find once the chokes are working the way they should, the jetting you had will be what you need.

LOL, by the way, I have made the same mistake, so I an feel for you. Sometimes the best lessons are the hardest learned. I have a nice set of jets and needles in my tool box which will most likely never see a bike. Thank god they are not terribly expensive. St.
 
Back
Top