2013 RT oil in aribox

[jharpphoto]

after a recent 18,000 mile service on my 2013 RT, I started smelling burning oil. Prior to this service I didn’t have any odor of burning oil whatsoever. I took the bike back after 500 miles to have the tech look at the bike and see if he could find any leaks or drips that I could not find. the tech suggested a further inspection, removing the panels and looking in the airbox. Upon further examination, the tech found oil in the airbox and excessive carbon buildup which he says, is causing a piston ring failure, which is allowing oil to enter the airbox thereby causing the burning oil odor. I’m a little confused at this development and carbon buildup. The tech suggest that this could be caused by using bad gas, which is unusual, because I’ve only put supreme 93 octane gas in the vehicle. He’s doing a cleaning ,removing some carbon, hoping that allows the pistons rings to seal properly . The tech also said if this doesn’t work, he will have to get into the engine do pistons and a number of other very expensive repairs. My question is, does this sound like a legitimate series of issues? I did tip the bike over once after the service I’m curious if oil might have gotten into the airbox when the bike tipped over. not looking forward to spending thousands on having the piston rings done etc. any suggestions?

Update, I had the bike serviced and and this is his report. Does this look kosher?


"inspected motorcycle, no leaks detected. oil level is low. Service performed 1500 miles ago. Removed body panel and air filter, air filter is dirty. Inspected airbox, found oil sitting in bottom of airbox. Ran motor and monitored inside of airbox. Heavy oil mist inside of airbox. Removed breather and left throttle body. Found large amount of carbon build up on back side of valves. Deem excessive carbon buildup not allowing piston rings to seal, causing oil to be constantly pushed into airbox due to excessive crank case pressure. Recommend performing fuel induction cleaning, add treatment to tank, replace air filter and clean airbox. Have customer ride another 1000 miles to aid in cleaning remaining carbon. Have customer return to inspect oil consumption.

Recommend run highway speed at high RPM for 1 full tank. Return for inspection after 1000 miles."

 

[pglaves]

I think a compression test and a leak down test would be in order.

 

[pauls1150]

Agree, along with the induction cleaning (I had that done once, knowing that I had a bit of crapitation buildup, and Yes it helped).
On these, will over-filling the oil cause the excess to accumulate in the airbox? That would be my first suspect as to a Root Cause.

ADDENDUM: I doubt that tipping the bike over would get oil into the airbox (especially since you were able to start it afterward: not vapor-locked), unless there was either a seriously bad valve guide or a broken ring.

 

[jharpphoto]

CRAP!!!!! Just returned from running a tank of fuel through the bike at highway speed/high RPMS. This was the recommended procedure per the BMW mechanic. Upon pulling into my garage the low engine oil light came on. Oil is 2/3 down the sight glass. The mechanic said he topped off the oil in his notes. I immediately called the service manager to let them know what I experienced and was told the last thing I wanted to hear. The bike is going to need a major compression diagnostic and repair aka LOTS OF MONEY! Is there any circumstance where this isn't going to cost me thousands to repair?

 

[pauls1150]

Instead of a dealer, can you do it yourself or with a friend, or find an independent BMW wrench in your area? (see: https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?47142-Resources-and-Links)

 

[pglaves]

I don't think much of anything can be figured out without a compression and leak down test. In any case the issue would seem to be top-end; ie rings or valves. On a boxer motor that might not be too serious or expensive. Or it might be. Who/what dealership/mechanic are you dealing with??

 

[jharpphoto]

I’ve had all regularly scheduled services with Wooly’s cycles in Atlanta ( BMW dealer). Unfortunately I’m not equipped or skilled to take this on myself.

 

[pglaves]

I’ve had all regularly scheduled services with Wooly’s cycles in Atlanta ( BMW dealer). Unfortunately I’m not equipped or skilled to take this on myself.

They have a good reputation. Ask how much for them to do a compression test and leak down test. Go from there.

 

[jharpphoto]

Thanks and that’s the current plan. I’m a little annoyed that I had zero issues until they performed the 18K service. No oil smell, no excessive oil use.

 

[pglaves]

Thanks and that’s the current plan. I’m a little annoyed that I had zero issues until they performed the 18K service. No oil smell, no excessive oil use.

For what it is worth I am starting to get a "fishy" smell with this one.

 

[jharpphoto]

I am blown away and not in a good way. I just spoke with the service adviser after the shop did a compression test and leak down test. The tech has recommended replacing piston rings and valve seals as well as cleaning the top end. to the tune of $3,200 freaking dollars. I mentioned earlier in my post that I had no issues until this shop conducted the 18K mi service on my bike. After that service I started smelling burning oil. I feel like I'm getting screwed here. I've bought multiple bikes from this shop and have had good service til now. Does this sound like a reasonable amount for this service? I don't know but something doesn't feel right about this. Am I crazy or does something not add up?Not to mention, I just paid the bike off in December.

 

[Omega Man]

2013 with 18,000 miles if I have this correct. This is really short mileage. Did they give you a report with the actual numbers regarding the leak down test?

Last time I was I had something like this I solved it by running 0-40 AMSOIL after dumping the oil. Yeah, not the spec oil but it has the potential to free up anything that may be stuck due to what seems like limited use.
In my case it saved taking an 800cc ATV engine apart to “limber up” a rather complicated compression release.
Run it and keep an eye on it.

OM

 

[52184]

If this were my bike, I’d ask the dealer for the compression and leak down numbers they measured. Depending upon the relationship with the dealer, I’d ask them to remove any necessary bodywork to check for disconnected, misconnected, or kinked vacuum or other lines and to recheck the work they did during the 18k service. Or, take the bike to another dealer and ask for those same things.

With mileage that low the bike should not be in need of the extensive work the dealer suggested, and you were experiencing no issues before they did the 18k service. Problems like excessive oil consumption and burning oil smells, when resulting from accumulated normal wear, come on gradually. Their sudden appearance after service is unusual and suspect IMHO.

Best,
DeVern

 

[jharpphoto]

results of the compression test=
left cylinder right cylinder
293 PSI 248 psi

results of the leak down test=
left right
13% 16%

tech said there was oil gurgling near oil fill plug.

 

[Omega Man]

I was hoping that someone with more experience would have chimed in by now

Anyway, those numbers don’t seem right to me. While awaiting comment from someone who has done this recently, this thread was an interesting comparison-

https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/topic/80802-engine-compression-2005-rt/



OM

 

[pglaves]

I was hoping that someone with more experience would have chimed in by now

Anyway, those numbers don’t seem right to me. While awaiting comment from someone who has done this recently, this thread was an interesting comparison-

https://www.bmwsporttouring.com/topic/80802-engine-compression-2005-rt/



OM

Those compression numbers are not right somehow. I don't have the specs for that bike but off the top of my head I would expect something more like 160 to 180 p.s.i.

 

[oldcamper]

I’m with Paul on the expected psi, but the difference between cylinders is worrisome.
I suspect a stuck or broken ring on the low cylinder, or possibly a broken ring land.

 

[jharpphoto]

I proceeded with the maintenance suggested by the BMW dealership (although with a bit of hate in my heart). Picked up the bike yesterday and didn't have a chance to ask the service manager/tech about the recommended RPM range for break in. I don't see info in the manual about break in procedure either. Below are the notes from the tech that conducted the service.

"Removed cylinders, cleaned cylinders and pistons of carbon. Replaced piston rings both cylinders. Removed all valves from heads. Thoroughly cleaned the carbon buildup from heads and valves. Replaced valve guide seals. Reassembled top end. Set ignition timing. Checked valve clearances. Calibrated idle actuators. Performed throttle body sync. Drained and filled engine oil. Set oil level. test rode. Function tested. Motorcycle runs and rides as designed. Recommend return in 600-1000 miles for visual inspections. Recommend break in- vary speeds and gears as much as possible. No high revs until 600 miles(what is considered high revs is there a recommended a rev range to stay within). No lugging in high gears."



In looking online there seems to be a wide range of break in suggestions and rpm ranges etc. I did notice on the short ride home the bike sounded a little different. Hoping to get out today to start breaking her in.

 

[pglaves]

I proceeded with the maintenance suggested by the BMW dealership (although with a bit of hate in my heart). Picked up the bike yesterday and didn't have a chance to ask the service manager/tech about the recommended RPM range for break in. I don't see info in the manual about break in procedure either. Below are the notes from the tech that conducted the service.

"Removed cylinders, cleaned cylinders and pistons of carbon. Replaced piston rings both cylinders. Removed all valves from heads. Thoroughly cleaned the carbon buildup from heads and valves. Replaced valve guide seals. Reassembled top end. Set ignition timing. Checked valve clearances. Calibrated idle actuators. Performed throttle body sync. Drained and filled engine oil. Set oil level. test rode. Function tested. Motorcycle runs and rides as designed. Recommend return in 600-1000 miles for visual inspections. Recommend break in- vary speeds and gears as much as possible. No high revs until 600 miles(what is considered high revs is there a recommended a rev range to stay within). No lugging in high gears."



In looking online there seems to be a wide range of break in suggestions and rpm ranges etc. I did notice on the short ride home the bike sounded a little different. Hoping to get out today to start breaking her in.

Taking this report and the very high compression figures it would seem that there was an extreme carbon buildup in the combustion chambers. That raises the serious question as to why. Modest carbon buildup is normal. But in over two million combined miles on BMW motorcycles by Voni and I combined we have never experienced any significant buildup of carbon necessitating manual carbon removal. So is it the oil used, the fuel used, the riding style, or some inherent flaw in that specific engine? Who knows. Defective rings maybe? But it is a question that needs an answer.

 

[Omega Man]

With compression number that high, I'm surprised the starter turned the engine over.
OM