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Very reluctant starting of RT

Hammam

Hammam

New member
I have put away my R1200 RT (2012) for the winter just three weeks ago. I have filled her up, added fuel stabiliser, and put her on the battery charger. Yesterday, I wanted to check some connections for my heating jacket, so I started the bike. Rather, I tried to start it. It wouldn't. The battery was absolutey topped, and it cranked all righ, but it took me about 10-15 minutes of cranking, shutting down, waiting, cranking again before the bike finally started to cough and spit and start wheezing and shaking away, with an awful sound. And I really had to hold the starter running a long time, otherwise the engine would choke and die. Then I had to wait a good 5 minutes before I could give it a little gas without the engine choking again.

This bike has 13,500 kms on the clock, and had its 10,00 kms (5,000 miles) service just a few weeks ago. And it always started instantly, and ran nice and smooth.

What do you make of that? Humidity? Bad fuel? Plugs? Only 3 weeks of storage.

Thank you.
 
Was it stored on the center stand or side stand? Mine will do that every time if left on side stand for a few days. Dealer says oil collecting in left cylinder soaking plug. Can't validate that, but it never happens on center stand.
 
lbarbee said:
Was it stored on the center stand or side stand? Mine will do that every time if left on side stand for a few days. Dealer says oil collecting in left cylinder soaking plug. Can't validate that, but it never happens on center stand.
Click to expand...
It's on the centerstand. I'm a bit baffled by your dealer's remark. I am not very mechanically inclined, but how on earth can oil go INTO AND UP (or maybe down) the STILL cylinder, past the rings and all the way up the the combustion chamber and foul the plug? If that is possible, then there is a leak in the pistons' tightness, and many different symptoms would appear before a foul plug.
 
Sorry I can't explain. He seemed to understand, he described it precisely, I just can't remember his answer. All I can say for sure is storing on the side stand was the cause. Once I stopped, it stopped. It was scary the first time, hard to start, awful noise, entire bike shook, stalled several times. I thought I had a serious mechanical failure. That was 30,000 miles ago, no problems since.
Bike always maintained at regular service intervals.

I called the dealer tech from my driveway, he immediately said "did you have it stored on the side stand". Which I did.

He said run it up the road an in 2 miles it'll be fine. He was right.

I wish I had a more technical answer. Maybe oil draining down from the oil cooler?
I am sure someone more intimate will have answer.
 
A quick search shows this debate in almost every major forum.
I offer my answer as completely anecdotal. Two things I was told to do, store on center stand and full of fuel (or empty) due to fuel strip failures.

I am just dumb enough to listen.

Haven't had either problem since. Of course this proves little.
 
Hammam said:
It's on the centerstand.
Click to expand...

How cold was it in your garage? If on the cool side did you give it a bit of throttle when trying to start?

Hammam said:
I'm a bit baffled by your dealer's remark. I am not very mechanically inclined, but how on earth can oil go INTO AND UP (or maybe down) the STILL cylinder, past the rings and all the way up the the combustion chamber and foul the plug? If that is possible, then there is a leak in the pistons' tightness, and many different symptoms would appear before a foul plug.
Click to expand...

Oil is splashed onto the cylinder walls "below" (the crank side) of the piston It is the job of the oil scraper ring to remove excess oil as the piston moves toward the crank on intake and power strokes. Imagine the engine stops with the piston closer to TDC than BDC. Any oil on the cylinder walls in the crank side of the piston will congregate at the bottom of the cylinder. If the bike is on the side stand the cylinders are not parallel to the ground. The small amount of oil on the left cylinder will pool toward the piston. Piston rings move. If the ring gap happens to be near the bottom of the piston the oil can migrate through the rings into the head. If this set of events happens on a dual plugged bikes the bottom plug is likely to become oil fouled.
 
At the risk of being CRUDE, RTFM. (read the manual)

It says turn the throttle a little for cold start.

Try it.

Its what my 2112 needs.

David
 
Drain the fuel and refill with fresh stuff. Ethanol fuel is total garbage and can still go bad even with stabalizers in it. To me this sounds like your most likely culprit.

Remeber fuel, air, spark. If you have all three the bike will fire. If one is bad or intermittent you will have issues.

You're getting spark because the bike will run (albiet reluctantly) and short of a mouse or rat building a nest in your airbox (been known to happen), you have air.

Edit- I'd pull the plugs also just to check them. They aren't hard to get to so should be a quick job. Just make sure they aren't fouled or oil soaked or anything weird like that.
 
lbarbee said:
A quick search shows this debate in almost every major forum.
I offer my answer as completely anecdotal. Two things I was told to do, store on center stand and full of fuel (or empty) due to fuel strip failures.

I am just dumb enough to listen.

Haven't had either problem since. Of course this proves little.
Click to expand...
I don't think you're dumb, because, of course, your mechanic could be right. But I'd love to understand the details of it. That being said, my bike is on the center stand.
 
DROOT153718 said:
At the risk of being CRUDE, RTFM. (read the manual)

It says turn the throttle a little for cold start.

Try it.

Its what my 2112 needs.

David
Click to expand...
Like you said, crude. Maybe the F was one letter too many. That being said, I READ the manuel, though I failed to learn it by heart to be able to recite it from memory in all circumstances. And I did crank the throttle, at the second attempt.

Thanks.
 
Last edited:
Downs said:
Drain the fuel and refill with fresh stuff. Ethanol fuel is total garbage and can still go bad even with stabalizers in it. To me this sounds like your most likely culprit.

Remeber fuel, air, spark. If you have all three the bike will fire. If one is bad or intermittent you will have issues.

You're getting spark because the bike will run (albiet reluctantly) and short of a mouse or rat building a nest in your airbox (been known to happen), you have air.

Edit- I'd pull the plugs also just to check them. They aren't hard to get to so should be a quick job. Just make sure they aren't fouled or oil soaked or anything weird like that.
Click to expand...
Could be the problem. Unfortunately, what you suggest is not feasible. One, not being very clever, I would probably make a total mess trying to drain the fuel tank. Two, I can't ride the bike until the end of March, because of winter, with a huge blanket of snow everywhere, serious cold (right now, it's 14 F) and no winter tires. Our riding season lasts 8 to 9 months top.

It's not easy here in Canada to get ethanol-free high octane (91) fuel.

Thank you for your help.
 
marchyman said:
How cold was it in your garage? If on the cool side did you give it a bit of throttle when trying to start?

...
Click to expand...

It's at a constant 55-60 F. Yes, I did give it a little throttle. At the second attempt. But then, I dit it again several more times, which may have compounded the problem. In my 6 years since I took up riding again, I've never had a bike (all BMWs) that wouldn't start readily, even on days around 35 F.

Thank you.
 
marchyman said:
Oil is splashed onto the cylinder walls "below" (the crank side) of the piston It is the job of the oil scraper ring to remove excess oil as the piston moves toward the crank on intake and power strokes. Imagine the engine stops with the piston closer to TDC than BDC. Any oil on the cylinder walls in the crank side of the piston will congregate at the bottom of the cylinder. If the bike is on the side stand the cylinders are not parallel to the ground. The small amount of oil on the left cylinder will pool toward the piston. Piston rings move. If the ring gap happens to be near the bottom of the piston the oil can migrate through the rings into the head. If this set of events happens on a dual plugged bikes the bottom plug is likely to become oil fouled.
Click to expand...

Very interesting and informative. Thank you.
 
Hammam said:
Could be the problem. Unfortunately, what you suggest is not feasible. One, not being very clever, I would probably make a total mess trying to drain the fuel tank. Two, I can't ride the bike until the end of March, because of winter, with a huge blanket of snow everywhere, serious cold (right now, it's 14 F) and no winter tires. Our riding season lasts 8 to 9 months top.

It's not easy here in Canada to get ethanol-free high octane (91) fuel.

Thank you for your help.
Click to expand...


Just keep an eye on the interior of the tank. Ethanol is hydroscopic like brakefluid. It has a tendency to draw in moisture and can lead to a rusty tank in higher concentrations. This is also why I'm thinking the fuel is your problem, I think it might have been contaminated by moisture.

Draining would be as easy as siphoning as much as you can from the tank. It doesn't have to be every single drop just get as much as you can out. Then refill with fresh and see if she'll crank.
 
Sorry

I apologize for the F.

I had the same problem in Lake Placid this fall. It had gone down to 35*f. I hit the starter as usual. After 3 or 4 tries, I turned the throttle and it fired right up. I then RE read the manual and sure as can be it said if its cold turn the throttle.

Zero problems starting in the cold since.l

This where we were. 2 R1200R and an 800GS. I could see whiteface from the hotel.

011-L.jpg

For the side stand thing it goes back to the airheads.

If you put the bike on the side stand and shut it off, there was still oil in the cylinder. It would smoke upon startup if left over night or longer.

After that I learned to shut the bike off, lean to the right so oil drains out of the left cylinder then park it as I pleased.

I think its still a habit.

I don't think there is anything wrong with your bike, or fuel. Just make more cold start attempts until you get to know it better

David

IN the picture, my R1200R is the one with the barn door windshield. That is not me in the pic, he owns the F800GS.
 
DROOT153718 said:
I apologize for the F.

I had the same problem in Lake Placid this fall. It had gone down to 35*f. I hit the starter as usual. After 3 or 4 tries, I turned the throttle and it fired right up. I then RE read the manual and sure as can be it said if its cold turn the throttle.

Zero problems starting in the cold since.l

This where we were. 2 R1200R and an 800GS. I could see whiteface from the hotel.

View attachment 36590

For the side stand thing it goes back to the airheads.

If you put the bike on the side stand and shut it off, there was still oil in the cylinder. It would smoke upon startup if left over night or longer.

After that I learned to shut the bike off, lean to the right so oil drains out of the left cylinder then park it as I pleased.

I think its still a habit.

I don't think there is anything wrong with your bike, or fuel. Just make more cold start attempts until you get to know it better

David

IN the picture, my R1200R is the one with the barn door windshield. That is not me in the pic, he owns the F800GS.
Click to expand...

Apology accepted. The problem is I don't think starting a bike that's been stored at 55-60 F qualifies as ?½cold start??.
 
Hammam said:
I have put away my R1200 RT (2012) for the winter just three weeks ago. I have filled her up, added fuel stabiliser, and put her on the battery charger. Yesterday, I wanted to check some connections for my heating jacket, so I started the bike. Rather, I tried to start it. It wouldn't. The battery was absolutey topped, and it cranked all righ, but it took me about 10-15 minutes of cranking, shutting down, waiting, cranking again before the bike finally started to cough and spit and start wheezing and shaking away, with an awful sound. And I really had to hold the starter running a long time, otherwise the engine would choke and die. Then I had to wait a good 5 minutes before I could give it a little gas without the engine choking again.

This bike has 13,500 kms on the clock, and had its 10,00 kms (5,000 miles) service just a few weeks ago. And it always started instantly, and ran nice and smooth.

What do you make of that? Humidity? Bad fuel? Plugs? Only 3 weeks of storage.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

Sounds similar to an issue I had due to ethanol in the fuel, it collected enough water to rust up the fuel pump. It would crank all day but not start as the canbus sensed a FP issue and cut the power to the FP. Ended up replacing the FP and both injectors. BTW I used Stabil as well. Hope you have a better experience.
 
I'm not sure I can add more to what is already posted. My 2005 RT has never sat unused more than 5-7 days since I've had it. I ride year round to include commuting to work during the winter. The motorcycle sits outside in the parking lot overnight. Coming out in the morning after a night shift, temperatures have been as low as the low to mid 20's. It's sometimes been slightly sluggish but always fired right up on the first or second try.
 
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