Ethanol, Do you Avoid Using Gas Containing Ethanol?

[36654]

Ok........now throw in the equation, MPG comparisons, of the summer VS winter blends..........I go from here, just south of Chattanooga up to Nashville on a couple of times per month basis..........My Merc SLK320 in the winter go a steady 30 mpg to 32 mpg at 75 to 80 mph with bursts way up there to get around traffic. The latest 2 trips in May and June were 24 and 26 mpg..........same speed and traffic......

The same deal in my V-6 Honda pilot gone from 320 miles per tank down into the 280's..........Summer blends are definitely a money maker for the oil guys with using more fuel during vacation???? Yes, tree huggers I understand about the ozone layers, CO2, and the necessity of the blends..........RIGHT..........God bless.......Dennis

Dennis,

Check the chemistry. The more volatile winter blend contains cheap butane and has a lower energy content than the more expensive, lower volatility summer blend.

BTW - Do you run the AC in summer?

Jon

 

[ItsPhilD]

Dennis,

Check the chemistry. The more volatile winter blend contains cheap butane and has a lower energy content than the more expensive, lower volatility summer blend.

BTW - Do you run the AC in summer?

Jon

Hate to see anyone defend this crap fuel. I know far too many techs in both automotive, motorcycle and small engine. And none of them would agree that it is any good on the engine and does not have the same amount of energy as non-ethanol fuels. We need to stop wasting food crop for this harmful fanciful idea.

 

[36654]

Hate to see anyone defend this crap fuel. I know far too many techs in both automotive, motorcycle and small engine. And none of them would agree that it is any good on the engine and does not have the same amount of energy as non-ethanol fuels. We need to stop wasting food crop for this harmful fanciful idea.

Even if there wasn't ethanol, there would be winter and summer blends....

 

[tommcgee]

We need to stop wasting food crop for this harmful fanciful idea.

Actually, close to half of the US food crop gets wasted anyway. There are many documentaries about food on Netflix and Amazon Prime. Eye opening.

 

[jeffkruger]

I have been told that gas containing ethanol is worse for long term storage. The one time I try to avoid using gas containing ethanol for sure is if something is going to be setting unused for a while. I try to follow that with bikes, lawn mowesr, cars, etc. Thankfully we have a station close by that always has one pump with ethanol free gas. I try to look for it while traveling, but don't go to great lengths to get it if its not easy.

 

[Greg_K]

On the coast,we've got a fair amount of EtOH free places- boats need it.

So we use it in all the yard equipment (got about 30 gallons on hand) - 2 stroke and 4 stroke. Chainsaw, weedeater, trimmers, blowers, tractor, etc

Bikes get what we pick up while riding. Once away from the coast finding EtOH free is not as easy.

EtOH containing fuel is a pure scam and nothing more than subsidy to big ag interests. It produces only slightly more energy than the fuel it takes to farm it, make it and distribute it so contributes almost nothing to energy independence from the mideast with the resulting very expensive military actions that never seem to end. Shale oil and fracking can actually do something useful in that regard assuming they can be done with acceptable environmental impacts.It is in fact the US military that is driving a lot of the govt thinking re energy policy.

(I am no expert in what's coming out of the tar sands and on the pipeline issues but have hear they're using benzene as a diluent for pumping- if so that is troubling because benzene is a well established higher level carcinogen than many other petro chemicals)

Got no experiences whatever with Russian fuel- and it sounds like that's a good thing especially if they do fuel as well as they do nuclear reactor designs.

Yes, it produces slightly more energy than the energy to produce and distribute it... BUT it also contains half the energy that gasoline has, so 10% ethanol gives you 5% less fuel milage than straight petroleum. The total net is negative, which makes it an even bigger scam.

 

[roamingbeemer]

Do I avoid ethanol... No. Would I like to avoid it....Yes, but very inconvenient from my home to the nearest ethanol free station according to pure-gas.org. Instead I use a techcron additive when I will not be riding for more than a couple of weeks which so far has prevented any of the ethanol issues of water separation causing problems. The bikes sometimes sit 2 to 3 months.

 

[dieselyoda]

Yes, it produces slightly more energy than the energy to produce and distribute it... BUT it also contains half the energy that gasoline has, so 10% ethanol gives you 5% less fuel milage than straight petroleum. The total net is negative, which makes it an even bigger scam.

Sorry Greg_K, the cost to energy ratio, all over the world has been proven to be 1.6-1. Ethanol is not just corn syrup, it can be anything fractioned to create Ethanol from Corn, Soy, Wheats, Barley, Potatoe all the way to rendered animal waste. The reality is that the energy to say, grow a crop of Rye and turn it into fuel, exceeds the actual energy value from the Ethanol by at least, in comparison to cost or market value, by 60% at the minimum.

You have better value for your money buying corn on the cob than you do putting it into your tank.

In Canada, we voted for these morons. We followed the EU and the USA found a way to subsidize failing AG Markets to compete against Canadian bumper crops.

It's not a scam. The minority vocal activists tell the majority complacent how the world should be and we follow like lemmings.

Has anybody in the US brought this issue to their Senators/Congress/Representative?

I would think we are in the minority of complainers because, in my professional role, I'm making a ton of coin off this and I certainly don't want it to change. I could go all the way to completely bio-fuel and choose an electric bike so I don't have to think about it when I want to ride.

This is a big issue, all over the world. I challenge you to buy bread in Somalia. Their entire agriculture production goes forward to fuel in NA. The US and Canadian governments, more our government, subsidizes it and then when there is nothing left to feed the people, the entire world chips in and feeds the poor while the land owners reap the rewards.

Half a dozen Birkie wearing black socks and Tilley hats, long necks with tye dye shirts, smoking home grown told a guy this was a good idea and he turned it into this. We elected him as Prime Minister. They had proof, the EU did it first and it almost worked, until it didn't.

 

[Omega Man]

 

[kantuckid]

The 20~21 mpg in my Tacoma makes me think I've adopted the local gas station as a charity....

Which is part of the "why" I drive a Tundra instead of a Tacoma

 

[kantuckid]

But E10 is only 10% corn. Try it on E85 ( assuming your car is capable) and see how horrible your mileage is.

I have zero place to buy pure gas yet several in area that sell E85-who buys that stuff & why? I see no incentive of any kind to use it?

 

[kantuckid]

I did a n experiment a few years ago with a 2008 Impala I had at the time that got around 30 MPG on the interstate. My mother-in-law was in the hospital 90 interstate miles from my house and I had to drive back and forth every day. I ran out full tanks of both pure gas and ethanol gas for several days. Because the roads and conditions were identical each day, I felt the comparison was accurate. Pure gas got 2 MPG better mileage than the ethanol stuff. The pure gas station later closed so it ceased to matter.

FWIW. I sure wish I could "experiment" with the gas near Osbornk (I-81 in southern VA) cause it always costs far less than our gas-typically around 25-45 cents per gallon! I'm no fan of the government messing with free enterprise but the "gas gouge" we get in our area is ridiculous! Those that travel south of me toward TN border see a 25-35 cent drop, even while still in KY. While price control from government is not good, neither is price fixing which seems to be it. I used to wonder, when I came to KY in 1973, if the refinery near Ashland, KY was a factor in high gas prices? Gas prices have always been much higher near me here than in my native KS which has similar taxes & many more refineries? Same higher price is true for propane here.
The price we see on TV as the "national average" for gasoline is typically higher yet, than our local price. I assume that price is inflated due to local blend factors that raise costs. 135 miles west of me in Louisville,KY gasoline is a lot higher than mine is now. They require a special blend yet theirs' is sometimes much cheaper than ours in winter.
Is there any political momentum to stop E gas? I know it's a limited topic here.

 

[36654]

Yes, it produces slightly more energy than the energy to produce and distribute it... BUT it also contains half the energy that gasoline has, so 10% ethanol gives you 5% less fuel milage than straight petroleum. The total net is negative, which makes it an even bigger scam.

Greg

Your argument would make more sense if you quoted credible sources for your energy content claims. As is, I can find no reputable source that states your values for gasoline or ethanol energy content. If you check around, reputable references indicate that ethanol has 2/3 to 70% of the energy (BTU's/gal in the old system of units) content of gasoline. Then, you can do the calculation of cost per mile.

Or, from a different perspective, you can consider the historic variation in inflation adjusted corn and wholesale gasoline prices. While corn returned to the 1984 price levels in 2012, it has dropped at least 20% since that time. During the same period, the cost of unleaded gasoline rose sharply after 2002 and plateaued at nominally 160% of the 1984 price.

If the use of corn for ethanol was driving it's price and availability for food, shouldn't we expect the corn commodity price be higher than in the pre-gasohol days?

 

[36654]

Which is part of the "why" I drive a Tundra instead of a Tacoma

Because being worse than bad doesn't matter after some point?

 

[36654]

FWIW. I sure wish I could "experiment" with the gas near Osbornk (I-81 in southern VA) cause it always costs far less than our gas-typically around 25-45 cents per gallon! I'm no fan of the government messing with free enterprise but the "gas gouge" we get in our area is ridiculous! Those that travel south of me toward TN border see a 25-35 cent drop, even while still in KY. While price control from government is not good, neither is price fixing which seems to be it. I used to wonder, when I came to KY in 1973, if the refinery near Ashland, KY was a factor in high gas prices? Gas prices have always been much higher near me here than in my native KS which has similar taxes & many more refineries? Same higher price is true for propane here.
The price we see on TV as the "national average" for gasoline is typically higher yet, than our local price. I assume that price is inflated due to local blend factors that raise costs. 135 miles west of me in Louisville,KY gasoline is a lot higher than mine is now. They require a special blend yet theirs' is sometimes much cheaper than ours in winter.
Is there any political momentum to stop E gas? I know it's a limited topic here.

Free enterprise prices the product to the market. You are living that reality. Cluster 3 or 4 large truck stops near a major interstate exit (I-81 in western VA being the major north-south trucking route on the east coast) and you'll get competition limiting the retail fuel price.

 

[dennisdarrow]

If the use of corn for ethanol was driving it's price and availability for food, shouldn't we expect the corn commodity price be higher than in the pre-gasohol days?View attachment 45760

Surely NOT to argue nor question what you say as I surely am not close to being the wordsmith/researcher that you obviously are........BUT.........As a consumer of feed corn, cracked corn, and corn processed into animal feed, I have watched the price rise in the last 4 years alone rise some 25 to 30 percent. MUCH more over the last 8 or so years. At my local CO-OP/feed store, for instance, a 50 lb bag of feed corn has gone from $6 to $9. These prices are by the ton prices. Processed goat feed, a mixture of soy and corn an other stuff, has gone from $8 to $12 for a 50 lb bag/ton price................Look at the price of beef, eggs, milk, and chicken products...........Pork is another issue; but without the disease factor, one is seeing the same thing..........

Could the price you quote be related to the amount of acreage put under the plow and the natural conditions such as weather???

Anyway, just food for thought in this continuing "Ethanol Saga"..........God bless......Dennis

 

[WalterK75]

Gas is also differentially taxed by the state in which it is sold. This can add to the pump price which can account for differences in prices depending on which side of the state border you buy gas.

 

[Ponch1]

I wish I could. The fuel quality in this state isn't good.

 

[Ponch1]

But E10 is only 10% corn. Try it on E85 ( assuming your car is capable) and see how horrible your mileage is.

I have a flex fuel suburban. I've used E85 and it's like pouring it on the ground. It does run better though as the engine has a different tune for E85 (says so in the manual).

 

[36654]

Surely NOT to argue nor question what you say as I surely am not close to being the wordsmith/researcher that you obviously are........BUT.........As a consumer of feed corn, cracked corn, and corn processed into animal feed, I have watched the price rise in the last 4 years alone rise some 25 to 30 percent. MUCH more over the last 8 or so years. At my local CO-OP/feed store, for instance, a 50 lb bag of feed corn has gone from $6 to $9. These prices are by the ton prices. Processed goat feed, a mixture of soy and corn an other stuff, has gone from $8 to $12 for a 50 lb bag/ton price................Look at the price of beef, eggs, milk, and chicken products...........Pork is another issue; but without the disease factor, one is seeing the same thing..........

Could the price you quote be related to the amount of acreage put under the plow and the natural conditions such as weather???

Anyway, just food for thought in this continuing "Ethanol Saga"..........God bless......Dennis

Dennis,

You can track the commodity prices easily on the web. Since the peak in 2012, corn prices have really dropped. If you're not seeing that at your local feed supplier, someone is making a better profit are your expense and you need to use the invisible hand of the free market to help yourself. Or, be happy with the price at the local store.