Tires for R1100R loaded? Bias ply reinforced ME888s?

[tedsalt]

Tires for loaded R1100R? Bias ply reinforced ME888s?

The manual shows a GVWR of 992 lbs for the R1100R. If I'm riding at that weight, should I be riding on bias ply tires with reinforced sidewalls similar to what touring bikes use? When riding fully loaded, it feels like I can feel the tire bottoming out on the rim when I hit a bump. Maybe it's the stock suspension (14K mi). In any case, would it hurt / help to be running Metzeler ME888s bias ply tires in the size 160/70B-17 with reinforced sidewalls and load rating 79V ?

Currently running PR3 front and PR4 rear, and I do like the way the Michelins handle when it's just me riding, but when loaded, I'm a little concerned. I don't really want to trade up to a bigger bike, as I like this bike alot, and feel that maybe the Metzelers will get me where I want to be. I know I may have to ride a little more conservatively on bias ply tires.

Also realize you shouldn't mix radials and bias ply tires, so I would replace both front and rear, and considering the ME888 110/90-18 (61H) or the 130/70B-18 (63H) for the front. My 75th Anniversary Edition has the spoke wheels.

Anyone with experience with bias ply tires on their 1100 ?

Oh, and my riding is currently as commuter, but I'd like to get where the SO and I can start doing some touring on it ...

Thanks,
Ed

 

[beemerphile]

I put a set of Metzeler ME880 B's intended for the K1100LT on my 1150R for an overloaded trip to Alaska.



Next time I will just pack more sensibly. The rear was taller, so I used a longer paralever arm to bring the rear back down to ride height. With correctly sized 888's (if you can find them) this would not be a problem. I should note that my R1150R has a GS suspension and I lowered it for the taller tire by putting the R1150R paralever arm back on for the trip. The bias tires handled properly, but obviously, they are no match for the PR4's. The front tire ran the entire trip to Deadhorse, Inuvik, and back to Georgia. The rear was replaced in Anchorage. Once I got home and took the extreme load off, the comfort and handling showed themselves to be pretty miserable, so back on went PR4's. If you are only mildly dissatisfied, have you considered or tried the PR4GT? Bikes are designed from the tires up. When you change tire sizes, congratulations, you are now the bike designer. Make sure you know what you are doing and are willing to accept the consequences. Your comments on the different front sizes are a bit worrisome.

Tire change in Anchorage...



Back to "normal"...



Edited to add: If you are running at rated GVWR or less, you should not have to change tire types to get good performance. If the tire is bottoming out on the rim, the air pressure is wrong. A spent shock absorber is not hard to imagine. Mine is running adjustable Wilbers shocks.

Further: Your stock sizes appear to be 120/70-17 and 160/60-18. Where do you plan to obtain a 17 inch rear wheel? Where do you plan to obtain an 18 inch front wheel? Will the widths and heights work? Rake, trail, and ride height will all be affected. I think that you are in deeper than you should be. I would recommend that you stick to stock sizes as you seem unprepared to sort out the significant challenges that lie ahead.

Further Further: My K1100RS has the same tire sizes as your R1100R. It is much heavier than your R bike and when ridden two up with luggage the tires perform fine. I have a recent new shock absorber and when loaded I run 42 psi in the rear. Your tires should work.

 

[beemerphile]

There are lots of 120/70-17 choices for the front, but there are not a lot of choices in 160/60-18 for the rear. There is however, a ME880 in your size both front and rear if you feel a need for this...

REAR

http://www.chaparral-racing.com/product/metzeler-me880-marathon-reinforced-rear-tire/335-10418.aspx

FRONT

http://www.chaparral-racing.com/product/metzeler-me880-marathon-v-rated-front-tire/335-20447.aspx

My much heavier K1100RS has been quite satisfactory with the PR4 front and PR3 rear. Unfortunately the PR4 is not available in the 160/60-18 size.

 

[tedsalt]

R1100R 75th Anniversary Edition spoke wheel sizes

Thanks for the reply Lee! Nice pic on the Dalton! I'd like to go there someday ...

The 75th Anniversary Edition uses spoke wheels that are a different size than the cast wheels. Stock spoke wheel tire sizes for this bike are:
110/80 ZR 18 Tubeless Front Tire
150/70 ZR 17 Tubeless rear tire

I don't think the PR4GT gains me much in load rating (current 69 to 72) compared to the ME888 (69 to 79), and the sizing is farther off as compared to what is available in the ME888s.

The ME Triple 8s are available in:

http://www.metzeler.com/site/us/products/tyres-catalogue/ME_888_marathon_ultra.html

front:
110/90 - 18 M/C 61H TL (stock width 4.33" to 4.33" (same), stock diameter 24.93" to 25.80")
130/70 B 18 M/C 63H TL (width 4.33" to 5.12", diameter 24.93" to 25.17") *

rear:
160/70 B 17 M/C 79V REINFTL (width 5.91" to 6.30", diameter 25.27" to 25.82") *

so the available sizes for the Triple 8s are close, but are slightly larger.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/tireinfo4calc.html

Here's my bike with the PR3 on front, but the old Battleax on back -





I also have a used set of Ohlins I need to have rebuilt and put on ...

 

[beemerphile]

As an unfaired bike, your front is not highly loaded at all. The PR3 there should be quite happy. I think you would regret the different front sizes. Your rear size is the same as my R1200GS. I have run both Pilot Road 4 Trail and standard Pilot Road 4 on the bike and find that both work fine, but the standard version gets better tire longevity than the Trail version. My GS has an auxiliary tank on the rear and large Jesse metal luggage with no sense of overpowering the rear tire when loaded. Again, there is a Wilbers adjustable shock (ESA in this case.)

I don't think you have a tire loading problem. Pressure or shocks it seems to me.

 

[tedsalt]

I'm about 275 lbs myself, and my SO is about 140, so we're close to the GVWR right there, without packing anything. Need to at least get the rear ohlins rebuilt and put on, and work more on my diet ...

 

[beemerphile]

I still do not see the problem. If your GVWR is 992 lbs....

110/80-18 Pilot Road Load Rating 58 = 520 lbs.
150/70-17 Pilot Road Load Rating 69 = 716 lbs.

I don't know your weight distribution, but that provides a total load rating = 1,236 lbs.

I'm thinking spring rate increase is what is needed. Do you have adjustable preload on the rear?

 

[tedsalt]

I still do not see the problem. If your GVWR is 992 lbs....

110/80-18 Pilot Road Load Rating 58 = 520 lbs.
150/70-17 Pilot Road Load Rating 69 = 716 lbs.

I don't know your weight distribution, but that provides a total load rating = 1,236 lbs.

I'm thinking spring rate increase is what is needed. Do you have adjustable preload on the rear?

Ha! I did not know you added front+rear loads to get total load rating. That makes sense.

Currently I'm running stock suspension, but had purchased used Ohlins that need a rebuild ($100 ea), and they're sitting on a shelf until that is done ...

 

[beemerphile]

...purchased used Ohlins that need a rebuild ($100 ea), and they're sitting on a shelf until that is done ...

That would be a good opportunity to get the spring rate and damping correct for your load and riding style. Use a good shop (like Ted Porter's BeemerShop) and give them the particulars so that they can re-spec them to your use.

best - Lee

 

[Paul_F]

I used to always run Metzlers' 880s on my K100RT when they were available. Great tires on that bike. Actually put two sets on the R1100RT. On that bike, those tires made for a very rough ride. YRMV.

 

[cycleman2]

Stick with your stock sized radials and inflate them to their max cold temp rating on the sidewalls. You will exceed the bikes load capacity before you will ever exceed the tire capacity. A better ( heavier rear spring ) will help with the load of 2 up. The stock shocks are OK if you are a solo rider with luggage but as soon as you go 2 up they are not strong enough.

I had a R1100R but only ever travelled solo with luggage, tent etc, and my current R1100s is also my solo bike, so the stock suspension is fine.

My 2013 Vstom 650 had very similar sized tires as your R bike and my wife and I travelled 2 up. I had linear springs in the forks and a heavy rear spring. At one point on one of our trips I checked the total weight of us, our gear and the bike and it was close to 1200 lbs. Well over the GVW of the bike. Everything worked fine including the tires. The only real concern I had was that at that weight the brakes where not adequate so you had to be aware of that.

My 2008 HD Softail had the same size 150 rear tire and I had Michelin Commander radials on it. That bike with us and our gear was heavier than the VStrom. Went to San Fran, through Nevada in the heat and didn't have any tire issues.

So to make a long story short, beef up your suspension and inflate the tires to their max and you'll be good to go. Don't think that you can over inflate the tires and get more load capacity. It doesn't work that way and you should never exceed the cold inflation temp on the side wall of a motorcycle tire. The inflation numbers shown on the sidewall are designed to take into account that when the tire is in use, the tire temperature will go up and correspondingly the pressure inside the tire will increase.

 

[tedsalt]

That would be a good opportunity to get the spring rate and damping correct for your load and riding style. Use a good shop (like Ted Porter's BeemerShop) and give them the particulars so that they can re-spec them to your use.

best - Lee

Thanks Lee I'll talk to my local shop but will probably end up using Ted Porter's, as I want to make sure I have the correct spring on there.

I used to always run Metzlers' 880s on my K100RT when they were available. Great tires on that bike. Actually put two sets on the R1100RT. On that bike, those tires made for a very rough ride. YRMV.

Thanks Paul. I'll try beefing up the suspension before I do anything tire wise. I do like the Michelins ...

Stick with your stock sized radials and inflate them to their max cold temp rating on the sidewalls. You will exceed the bikes load capacity before you will ever exceed the tire capacity. A better ( heavier rear spring ) will help with the load of 2 up. The stock shocks are OK if you are a solo rider with luggage but as soon as you go 2 up they are not strong enough.

I had a R1100R but only ever travelled solo with luggage, tent etc, and my current R1100s is also my solo bike, so the stock suspension is fine.

My 2013 Vstom 650 had very similar sized tires as your R bike and my wife and I travelled 2 up. I had linear springs in the forks and a heavy rear spring. At one point on one of our trips I checked the total weight of us, our gear and the bike and it was close to 1200 lbs. Well over the GVW of the bike. Everything worked fine including the tires. The only real concern I had was that at that weight the brakes where not adequate so you had to be aware of that.

My 2008 HD Softail had the same size 150 rear tire and I had Michelin Commander radials on it. That bike with us and our gear was heavier than the VStrom. Went to San Fran, through Nevada in the heat and didn't have any tire issues.

So to make a long story short, beef up your suspension and inflate the tires to their max and you'll be good to go. Don't think that you can over inflate the tires and get more load capacity. It doesn't work that way and you should never exceed the cold inflation temp on the side wall of a motorcycle tire. The inflation numbers shown on the sidewall are designed to take into account that when the tire is in use, the tire temperature will go up and correspondingly the pressure inside the tire will increase.

Thanks cycleman2. I've been running about 35/40 front/back, but I'll make sure I'm running max and no more.

 

[tedsalt]

Ohlins installed on rear; much better ride!

I bolted the used Ohlins onto the rear, and it is doing much better. Haven't had the wife on there yet but I expect it will ride much better then also.

Thanks for all the tips everyone!. I've been watching the air pressure closer ...