The High Cost of FD Failures

[dlearl476]

Due to the Iron Butt Rally and the FD failures that have happened during it, said failures have been getting a lot of interweb airtime lately. Lot's of folks are voicing opinions that these failures, and BMW's apparent apathy towards them, as reasons for looking elsewhere when new motorcycle time rolls around. This morning I realized there is another issue that no one has mentioned.

I buy used.

Especially BMWs. I've only bought one new, my '99 F650, but I will probably never buy another one. In five, ten years down the road when I may want a new touring bike, how is this going to affect my decision? I'm afraid I'm going to read every ad with a "50K and no FD issues" as "50K with no FD issues, YET" Bikes that have had one, or more, FD's replaced won't even be in the running.

I don't know how many others out there are like me, but I hardly think I'm unique. This, IMO, is going to be a huge hit to the resale value of these bikes, 3-4 years down the road, when the "late model" factor wears off.

My last new bike was a '99 Triumph Sprint ST. I bought it after a K1100RS rental left me jonesing for such a beast. At the time, the decision was $16.5K new, ~ $10-12K used, or the ST, which I eventually bought for $9.5K new. Now, 7 years later (I bought the ST in 2000 as a hold over) at resale time, the ST is worth about $4.5K the corresponding BMW's $5-8K. The BMW's are still more expensive, but they have depreciated more. I don't think these current models of BMW will even fair that well, given their history.

You guys looking at new bikes today, please, buy something else. (I'm going to need it in a few years!)

 

[ASPHALT]

So...yer tellin' me that eventually some day my final drive's gonna fail?
That sucks. I wish I had the foresight to predict that when I bought my bikes.
Now I'm gonna worry 'bout it non-stop.
Damn...

 

[redclfco]

So...yer tellin' me that eventually some day my final drive's gonna fail?
That sucks. I wish I had the foresight to predict that when I bought my bikes.
Now I'm gonna worry 'bout it non-stop.
Damn...

The factory Rep from BMW whos job it is to monitor this site is losing his opimisim for the day...

This guy says "No buyers of new models OH NO!!!"

 

[PAULBACH]

Time to switch?

Maybe it's time to switch to belt drives. A well known manufacturer in the states did that years ago.

 

[sugarbearRT]

Not sure if this relates directly to the FD issue, but I have a 2004 1150RT that just had the 24k service completed. I was having trouble downshifting so I had the dealership check it out. Ended up that the bike had to have spline lube work done. (Apparently this was not covered by warranty... And my warranty has since expired. DANG ) Well, checking on the BMWsporttouring website, this seems to be a widespread "SplineFlu virus" among 04 RT's. Just wondering how many other RT owners are having these problems?

 

[globalrider]

How many chain and sprockets sets to one final drive?

At least two, maybe three or four if your final drive lasts that long. So how do the prices compare...about the same I would think.

Its just the unpredictability (yes, I know you can check them and guess when they'll fail) that worries me. Actually, it doesn't, or I wouldn't be riding one.

 

[Bud]

Due to the Iron Butt Rally and the FD failures that have happened during it, said failures have been getting a lot of interweb airtime lately. Lot's of folks are voicing opinions that these failures, and BMW's apparent apathy towards them, as reasons for looking elsewhere when new motorcycle time rolls around. This morning I realized there is another issue that no one has mentioned.

I buy used.

Especially BMWs. I've only bought one new, my '99 F650, but I will probably never buy another one. In five, ten years down the road when I may want a new touring bike, how is this going to affect my decision? I'm afraid I'm going to read every ad with a "50K and no FD issues" as "50K with no FD issues, YET" Bikes that have had one, or more, FD's replaced won't even be in the running.

I don't know how many others out there are like me, but I hardly think I'm unique. This, IMO, is going to be a huge hit to the resale value of these bikes, 3-4 years down the road, when the "late model" factor wears off.

My last new bike was a '99 Triumph Sprint ST. I bought it after a K1100RS rental left me jonesing for such a beast. At the time, the decision was $16.5K new, ~ $10-12K used, or the ST, which I eventually bought for $9.5K new. Now, 7 years later (I bought the ST in 2000 as a hold over) at resale time, the ST is worth about $4.5K the corresponding BMW's $5-8K. The BMW's are still more expensive, but they have depreciated more. I don't think these current models of BMW will even fair that well, given their history.

You guys looking at new bikes today, please, buy something else. (I'm going to need it in a few years!)

I'm not the brightest bulb on the porch so bear with me. You wouldn't buy one that has not yet had a FD failure and wouldn't buy one with a FD replacement either?

Wouldn't it be better to buy one with a FD replacement rather than worrying if the FD might go bad?

 

[YELLOW_S]

My dads talked to people who have put 100.000 miles on their FJR's. Besides, spark plugs, tires, and oil. Not a think has gone been changed... Many people can't say that about there beemers. I want to know why is Yamaha's final drive not failing and BMW's are?

Plus many of them said they've checked the valves clearance, and only have to adjust it once in 100.000 miles.


Right now my next bike (which wont be anytime soon) wont be a BMW...

 

[RGVILLA]

well, I'll ride my R1100R as long as I can, my next bike might be the new Concours 14, I like its looks, we'll see how it holds up mechanically over the next few years. Three computers and its got that smart key gizmo, which I don't know much about. I also like the Triumph Tiger and KTM Adventure. We'll see. BTW, I would never buy a new BMW or probably any bike for that matter, give me one about 2-3 years old or older that has been well cared for.

 

[rayadams]

F D failure rate

does anyone have any real statistics on F D failure? or are we just a bunch of chick littles?

 

[ted]

Well, I don't think you'll find folks that have had trouble-free final drives posting over and over that their final drives have not failed.

 

[burnszilla]

These final drives make the extended warranty well worth the price.

 

[kwazimoto]

Has anyone heard of or contacted the NHTSA about any kind of safety investigation on these FD failures? I have been lucky enough to have had 2 of these! Luckily the first time I noticed oil on my garage floor before it was too far gone-still the bearing was totalled. The second time I kept feeling a vibration thru the footpegs.I kept getting off the bile to check for something loose but couldn`t find any wheel or swingarm playor maybe a brake problem. Finally I decided to stick the end of an allen wrench in the FD to check fluid,and it came out all metalflaked-another bearing gone.If I hadn`t noticed these small things(my son couldn`t feel anything wrong when we switched bikes to see if I was nuts about the vibration),or if had been a new or inexperienced rider,I`m sure it would have been trouble.When the Govt.has recalls for some of the willynilly things I`ve seen,how about investigating something that could Really kill someone?

 

[ted]

Get everyone (especially those out of warranty) to fill this out:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

 

[screwtop]

These final drives make the extended warranty well worth the price.

Sadly, you're right. The irony is why buy a BMW (supposedly legendary for their longevity and durability) if you needed a freakin' warranty in the first place? Granted, mechanical devices fail but you wouldn't expect our state of the art machines to be so subject to these major failures. I'm rethinking my hexhead purchase

 

[sjbmw]

Well, I don't think you'll find folks that have had trouble-free final drives posting over and over that their final drives have not failed.

I put this question to my service tech, as I was apprehensive as to my FD on my R1150R. I have done 2 up with 600 lb loads on several occasions.

He told me: (Paraphrasing his words, please don't shoot the messenger)

He has never seen a FD fail on a properly serviced boxer, and if the every 6k and annual services are done when needed their are no worries.

The ones he has seen fail are due to:

1. People that do their own maintenance and fail to recognize a problem before it becomes catastrophic. Turns what could be $100 fix at service time into a full FD replacement later.

2. Those that fail to recognize a problem when riding, and continue to ride without getting it checked.

I too would like to know the actual failure rates, and if any of this is relevant.

 

[globalrider]

The ones he has seen fail are due to:

1. People that do their own maintenance and fail to recognize a problem before it becomes catastrophic. Turns what could be $100 fix at service time into a full FD replacement later.

I beg to differ. The reason ALL my vehicles are so trouble-free is that I do all my own maintenance.

And what does he do to a FD other than change the gear oil. $100 in parts and labor isn't going to replace anything within the FD.

 

[ptero]

I have had two FD failures while on trips. As the mileage since the last fix was approaching what has become my typical FD "life", I got a new bearing and seal installed over last winter. I was anticipating a long trip this summer and wanted to try to avoid yet another failure.

The past failure events could have been worse. They were at low speed, the second one as I parked at a dealer (feeling it come on). I was very lucky that they did not occur at speed on the twisty roads just a bit earlier. Lolo Pass in one case.

Anyway, success on a failure free trip, but not a desired way to get reliability. Heh, this time it was the fuel pump! But even this happened at a good time. At a friend's house not very far from a dealer. Not stranded somewhere. No tow.

This is still the best ride I have ever had the pleasure of owning.

'93 K1100LT - soon to hit 180,000

 

[Polarbear]

BMW set the mark for;

Don't ever forget the older Airheads set the mark for the m/c industry, regarding high mileage motorcycles, period! Its the newer BMW's that suffer from this sickness. One rear failure here in my '01 K1200LT at 20000 miles. Its 750$ to fix, as in rebuild, using the existing gear set which was not damaged. At 91000 miles now and no reoccurance. I know how to look for the trouble in advance now, too. Anyhow, the older BMW's of the 70's and some before/later are still among the best ever built from Germany! My R100/7 at 300000+ has never left me stranded, at least for long where I could not fix it with relative ease and on the road in short order. This is a day long gone and if one had some smarts about them, they would not dismiss the older Airheads as a future touring ride. Happy Trails, Randy13233, riding new and old and smiling surely as much on my old R Bike

 

[MOTOR31]

These final drives make the extended warranty well worth the price.

That's provided you can get a dealer to get you info about the extended warranty.