THE 2021 Montana MOA Re-Schedule (previous 2020 Great Falls Thread)

[48012]

So Glaves, what you’re saying is the 2011 National Rally committee screwed up?

 

[PGlaves]

So Glaves, what you’re saying is the 2011 National Rally committee screwed up?

Not the Rally Committee chairs. They and the Board and the staff did yeoman duty trying to keep people safe and alive. And the site selection committee and 2009 Board only partly. The weather was not their fault. The fact that the facility reneged on promises was not their fault. Hindsight tells us not to chose tired, old poorly equipped facilities with no experience with large multi-day events. It was about as hot the next year in Sedalia but the facility was suitable and fewer folks got hauled to the hospital. Salt Lake City was just as hot but the facility worked. Going forward we need to avoid facilities like Bloomsburg.

 

[azgman]

Going forward we need to avoid facilities like Bloomsburg.

And, flame cars... don't forget the flame cars!

 

[36654]

Not the Rally Committee chairs. They and the Board and the staff did yeoman duty trying to keep people safe and alive. And the site selection committee and 2009 Board only partly. The weather was not their fault. The fact that the facility reneged on promises was not their fault. Hindsight tells us not to chose tired, old poorly equipped facilities with no experience with large multi-day events. It was about as hot the next year in Sedalia but the facility was suitable and fewer folks got hauled to the hospital. Salt Lake City was just as hot but the facility worked. Going forward we need to avoid facilities like Bloomsburg.

Paul,

I'm not going to argue with your assessment. It was brutal for everyone and I know you were struggling. I remember you and Voni trying to get some relief in the dated vendor hall.

However, while your criticism is valid, I'm a bit concerned that new standard for a Rally site is going to eliminate most rural fair facilities in the East. Accordingly, the viable sites are then limited to the more urban areas, at least here in the East.

Just my opinion..

 

[PGlaves]

And, flame cars... don't forget the flame cars!

Oh how can I forget. Voni had me sitting in the front row because she knew I was going to be called up on stage to receive the Prof. Dr. Gerhard Knochlein Classic Award. From the front row a person could easily feel the added heat from the cars.

 

[flyhi2cfar]

Many of have stated it before; CHARGE ME MORE if needed and provide worthy facilities.

As an example. If we need another $10 from those camping for MORE and CLEAN Shower Trailers... where do we pay!

We WANT the few places that were nice to be the norm. EVEN if it means returning to the same locations about once every or 6 or 7 years.

We probably could save some money, by dollar cost averaging for a nice facility and negotiating a future return opportunity.

I can tell you I've heard food vendors state: "I hope y'all come back again... we'll be better prepared next time."

And I feel that works the same way with the facility staff/management.

 

[gsinnc]

Fargo. At least it's not Bloomsburg!

HA! I actually enjoyed Bloomsburg but then I don't camp and had a nice hotel room in Danville, PA. Sure it was hot but we adjusted and left for home at 5 AM to beat the heat. No big deal. Like I've said before .. they call is SUMMER for a reason! I did miss the flaming cars as we headed home Saturday.

 

[akbeemer]

Many of have stated it before; CHARGE ME MORE if needed and provide worthy facilities.

As an example. If we need another $10 from those camping for MORE and CLEAN Shower Trailers... where do we pay!

We WANT the few places that were nice to be the norm. EVEN if it means returning to the same locations about once every or 6 or 7 years.

We probably could save some money, by dollar cost averaging for a nice facility and negotiating a future return opportunity.

I can tell you I've heard food vendors state: "I hope y'all come back again... we'll be better prepared next time."

And I feel that works the same way with the facility staff/management.

Sometimes there are no shower trailers available within a 1,000 miles of a rally site, and an extra $10 will not cover the cost.

 

[Omega Man]

And, flame cars... don't forget the flame cars!

I guess I would have to give some thought on what brought the Flame Cars to the location?
Somebody must have thought it was a good idea
OM

 

[flyhi2cfar]

Sometimes there are no shower trailers available within a 1,000 miles of a rally site, and an extra $10 will not cover the cost.

I'm NOT really guessing here; but ten dollars... times about TWO THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED folks paying it.

Well that has ANY PROVIDER asking: where you want it parked!

For that matter, why in the world don't we just own a few of them.

 

[36654]

I guess I would have to give some thought on what brought the Flame Cars to the location?
Somebody must have thought it was a good idea
OM

I'm fairly certain that was a locally sourced bit of performance art. Besides being atrocious, it was a terrible thing to do to a boat-tail Riviera

 

[bigjohnsd]

They have held this little Rally for 79 years one town over from Spearfish, Sturgis SD.
The Black Hills are a great place to ride.
There are more than one hundred thousand campsites associated with Sturgis, 99,000 of them not being used the last weekend in June.
Food vendors are available.
Showers are already there.
Not many "Pirates" around the last weekend in June.

Just saying.......

 

[gsinnc]

The things you mention all became issues because of the unprecedented heat. There was no way swamp coolers could cope with 100+ temps plus relatively high humidity. But, weather is weather which no one controls. It was crazy hot everywhere over about a quarter of the US that week, so it was just the wrong week to be anywhere withing 500 miles of Bloomsburg. However, in retrospect, many other sites could have had real air conditioning in the buildings and better resources to deal with such a situation. The staff there wasn't up to the task, and I think that was in large part due to the long time manager having been replaced less than a year before the rally by someone without sufficient experience.

All the more reason to build a permanent facility to our exacting specifications in Fargo.

Not sure the year but the Rally in Burlington VT was the hot one for me. It was Vermont in the summer but 90+ is NOT the norm. We got rooms in I believe it was St. Michaels College which were very nice but the AC would only get it down to about 80 degrees!

I also recall in the late 90's or early 2000's at Americade in the first week of June Lake George NY was having a killer heat wave in the mid-90's !! New York state just can't handle that kind of heat and every restaurant's A/C was struggling to make it bearable. When we'd walk Canada Street for dinner we'd first check the temp inside before we'd even sit down. A lot of these places are just not built for extreme heat. And really ... IT'S SUMMER!

 

[PGlaves]

Paul,

I'm not going to argue with your assessment. It was brutal for everyone and I know you were struggling. I remember you and Voni trying to get some relief in the dated vendor hall.

.

Indeed, and for two days Voni and I were responsible for the health and safety of about a dozen Camp GEARS attendees camped out between a couple of vacant buildings. Making sure they had water and shade and stayed hydrated and didn't suffer heat exhaustion or heat stroke was serious. In addition was the actual GEARS instruction which took a backseat to survival. Years ago, when I was at Quantico Virginia and we went on long marches they at least followed us with a 6x6 with a bathtub full of ice cubes.

 

[36654]

A lot of these places are just not built for extreme heat. And really ... IT'S SUMMER!

Yes, but it's a warmer summer than before and a lot of homes aren't constructed for air conditioning. A lot of existing housing stock needs to go away and be replaced with something that's adaptable to modern HVAC

 

[gsinnc]

Yes, but it's a warmer summer than before and a lot of homes aren't constructed for air conditioning. A lot of existing housing stock needs to go away and be replaced with something that's adaptable to modern HVAC

But isn't that always a risk when traveling in June, July and August? Much like the summer storms we had in Charleston, SC. I just think it's really hard to plan around abnormal weather.

 

[Omega Man]

This company-

http://www.labrearentals.com/

Can provide portable A/C can chill off most any buildings. I have seen their operation at EASTEC cooling buildings at the Eastern States Exposition grounds in W. Springfield MA many times. Nice operation.
OM

 

[36654]

But isn't that always a risk when traveling in June, July and August? Much like the summer storms we had in Charleston, SC. I just think it's really hard to plan around abnormal weather.

And, rural areas, like Bloomsburg, aren't going to have the $$ to build facilities that can handle those weather events. Moving the Rally to Spring or Fall has been discussed, but that's an atypical vacation time for many employed folks.

Future site selections will be interesting.

 

[PGlaves]

There are now lots of locations suitable to house BMW MOA rallies, but in fact we may need to repeat sites like we did Missoula in '84 and '98. I didn't see people unhappy to go back after 14 years. And if a location is a tired old fairgrounds with inadequate facilities we ought not be there, whether that hurts the feelings of the fair board or not.

I admit some of my discontent with Bloomsburg was my own fault. I camped. But in the 37 rallies I have attended I have camped 34 times. In Bloomsburg we camped with the young riders attending Camp GEARS, which back then was part of what GEARS was.

 

[flyhi2cfar]

I sure agree with the above PGlaves statement...

Having camped at 15 consecutive Nationals. Tired old Fairgrounds with inadequate facilities are not worth our effort.
Even Lebanon TN last year didn't have mirrors for shaving, and had cold water only sinks in the old bathroom buildings.
And they otherwise had very nice grounds/facilities.

Reminds me of my earlier thoughts in this thread...

Many of have stated it before; CHARGE ME MORE if needed and provide worthy facilities.

As an example. If we need another $10 from those camping for MORE and CLEAN Shower Trailers... where do we pay!

We WANT the few places that were nice to be the norm. EVEN if it means returning to the same locations about once every or 6 or 7 years.

We probably could save some money, by dollar cost averaging for a nice facility and negotiating a future return opportunity.

I can tell you I've heard food vendors state: "I hope y'all come back again... we'll be better prepared next time."

And I feel that works the same way with the facility staff/management.