Starting out of neutral

[bluehole]

A friend of a friend just bought a new Yamaha. She enjoys the bike, but found that it will only start in neutral. This is frustrating and occasionally nerve racking...like when the bike stalls at a traffic light. Is this a new standard in motorcycling? Is this true with the new BMWs? My RT and RS can be started in any gear.

 

[omega man]

A friend of a friend just bought a new Yamaha. She enjoys the bike, but found that it will only start in neutral. This is frustrating and occasionally nerve racking...like when the bike stalls at a traffic light. Is this a new standard in motorcycling? Is this true with the new BMWs? My RT and RS can be started in any gear.

There seems to a number of safety interlocks on the newer bikes like in-gear side-stand down, engine off. Another would be no start when in gear unless the clutch is pulled in. What you report seems odd and I would have a hard time re-training myself for a "place in neutral" to start. If there is a stall in traffic and a catch of the bike with your legs to keep the bike up, it seems your feet would be kinda busy to get back to the shift lever It seems odd that it won't start with the clutch engaged. Chances are there is a write up in the owners manual that would explain the circumstances for start. As this is not really an oilhead specific question and to get some more input from the members, I'll move this to the Motorrad section for you. Gary

 

[PGlaves]

I have no firm idea what Yamaha did but if that were a BMW the problem would be a faulty clutch switch. All of the Yamahas I had years ago, and Vonis current TW200 would start either in neutral, or when the clutch was pulled, just like BMWs.

So I would say she needs a new clutch switch. It's a defect, not a feature.

 

[SilverSurfer]

A friend of a friend just bought a new Yamaha. She enjoys the bike, but found that it will only start in neutral. This is frustrating and occasionally nerve racking...like when the bike stalls at a traffic light. Is this a new standard in motorcycling? Is this true with the new BMWs? My RT and RS can be started in any gear.

I thought all bikes had to be able to start in gear just by pulling the clutch in. Isn't that supposed to be a safety feature? I think the mega scooters have to be in neutral to start, but that's because they have an automatic transmission. Is her new bike an automatic by any chance? If it is, I'm surprised it would stall.

I went over to a Yamaha forum on R6's to see is there is any info on this problem. They seemed to have some of the same problems that BMW, Honda, and others have had. Clutch switches, sidestand switches, and neutral switches going bad. I just had my sidestand switch replaced on my RT, but mine would still start with the clutch in. Maybe Yamaha has added this as a safety feature, but I don't think it's safe to be messing with trying to get the bike in neutral when it has stalled in traffic.

I'm not a member over there, so all I could do was look at other posts on it.

 

[bluehole]

Thanks very much guys. She is going to call the dealer about it tomorrow. I will tell about some of the things you have mentioned here. This seems so odd to me. I think the clutch switch may be the culprit. Thanks again.

 

[manicmechanic]

At our shop, when we encounter this type of complaint, we suggest to the owner that the switch can be bypassed, and that is usually what they choose to do, rather than spring for new hardware. It's just a matter of determining what the condition of the switch needs to be to allow starter operation.

 

[Mike_Philippens]

This is frustrating and occasionally nerve racking...like when the bike stalls at a traffic light.

Seriously? How often does that happen? I can't even remember the last time my bike stalled. I always start in neutral, no matter what. What is the problem exactly?

 

[PGlaves]

Seriously? How often does that happen? I can't even remember the last time my bike stalled. I always start in neutral, no matter what. What is the problem exactly?

1. The problem is the clutch switch is broken.

2. If/when the neutral switch breaks then to start the bike you need to cut/short wires.

3. The new owner finds it nerve wracking - maybe a newer rider.

4. Not everybody wants to ride broken junk and carry duct tape and baling wire. Some people want their motorcycle to be reliable transportation; not just a continuous adventure.

When stuff breaks fix it before the problem(s) get worse.

 

[newstar]

If that were the case on the bikes used to teach the MSF course, I think I'd stop teaching. Half of them still can't find neutral by the end of the first day.

This really doesn't sound right and as suggested, I would check the owners manual and search online for an answer.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Thanks very much guys. She is going to call the dealer about it tomorrow. I will tell about some of the things you have mentioned here. This seems so odd to me. I think the clutch switch may be the culprit. Thanks again.

Please post the results when you get this figured out. Inquiring minds, ya know.

 

[bluehole]

I dropped by the local Yamaha dealer today and asked about this problem. The reply I got was something like "yes, it is quite possible depending on the year and the model". I get the feeling he did not know whether or not this sort of thing is a factory set up or a bad clutch switch/wire/etc. He did say that it is simple to bypass the system.

The woman who bought the bike did not receive an owners manual. It is on order. She is sure the kickstand was down when it would not start. She placed a call to the dealer and is awaiting their return call. She is determined to get this fixed. If this neutral start only is the way the bike was designed she will ask the dealer to bypass the system.

I will let you folks know what happens as this progresses.

 

[alanrd]

At our shop, when we encounter this type of complaint, we suggest to the owner that the switch can be bypassed, and that is usually what they choose to do, rather than spring for new hardware. It's just a matter of determining what the condition of the switch needs to be to allow starter operation.

If you would short the switch on a new Rt, you would also disable cruise control. The cruise control stops when you pull in the clutch lever.

 

[bluehole]

The dealer called the owner back. He told her to bring it in the shop so I am pretty sure the dealer believes there is a problem or else he would have told he the bike was running the way it is supposed to.

 

[PGlaves]

The dealer called the owner back. He told her to bring it in the shop so I am pretty sure the dealer believes there is a problem or else he would have told he the bike was running the way it is supposed to.

Yeah. Either the clutch switch is broken or the wire is disconnected.

 

[Mike_Philippens]

1. The problem is the clutch switch is broken.

I understand that, but I was wondering how often it happens that the bike stalls and you'd want to start in gear. That's all. I can see that you'd want to fix anything that's broken, I just didn't understand the reason that was given...

 

[omega man]

I understand that, but I was wondering how often it happens that the bike stalls and you'd want to start in gear. That's all. I can see that you'd want to fix anything that's broken, I just didn't understand the reason that was given...

...From what I understood from the original post...Most people stall their bike from time to time, it could be from a number of things. I could see the situation where a rider is entering an intersection (4 way stop) and a parked car, not seeing the rider, pulls away from the curb causing the rider to stop unexpectedly with a stall-in gear. If the bike was running to what I considered normal, the rider could just pull in the clutch and re-start. If the rider had to put both feet down and shift to neutral, re-start, put it back in first it would leave the rider exposed in the intersection for a side hit or for the tailgater to rear end the bike. For me a quick consistent restart procedure is a must. HTH Gary

 

[bluehole]

Follow Up

The owner of the Yamaha took it to the dealership today. They agreed it was a safety problem and agreed to fix the bike. Apparently this is not as the motorcycle was designed.

 

[rocketman]

I dropped by the local Yamaha dealer today and asked about this problem. The reply I got was something like "yes, it is quite possible depending on the year and the model". I get the feeling he did not know whether or not this sort of thing is a factory set up or a bad clutch switch/wire/etc. He did say that it is simple to bypass the system.

The woman who bought the bike did not receive an owners manual. It is on order. She is sure the kickstand was down when it would not start. She placed a call to the dealer and is awaiting their return call. She is determined to get this fixed. If this neutral start only is the way the bike was designed she will ask the dealer to bypass the system.

I will let you folks know what happens as this progresses.

I'd have to double check but I'm pretty sure that on my new honda, if the kickstand is down the bike will not start unless its in neutral, whether the clutch is pulled in or not. This makes perfect sense to me since it should never be down after taking off. With the kickstand up it will start in neutral or with clutch pulled in. So the kickstand down overrides everything else. otherwise you could have the kickstand down, in gear, pull in clutch, start it and take off, while the kickstand was still down!!! BAD idea!!!! At minimum it should only start in neutral with kickstand down, regardless of clutch engagement/disengagement.

I guess I'm confused because it seems you are saying she is trying to start it at a light when stalled with the kickstand Down?? If that is the case she should not be deploying it. If so then there is nothing to fix, just don't deploy it when it stalls in traffic.

RM

 

[osbornk]

I'd have to double check but I'm pretty sure that on my new honda, if the kickstand is down the bike will not start unless its in neutral, whether the clutch is pulled in or not. This makes perfect sense to me since it should never be down after taking off. With the kickstand up it will start in neutral or with clutch pulled in. So the kickstand down overrides everything else. otherwise you could have the kickstand down, in gear, pull in clutch, start it and take off, while the kickstand was still down!!! BAD idea!!!! At minimum it should only start in neutral with kickstand down, regardless of clutch engagement/disengagement.RM

That is exactly how my CLC works. It will never ever start with the stand down and in any gear other than neutral. I have used my side stand as a kill switch ever since I watched it fall over when I got off without deploying the sidestand.

 

[rad]

I just didn't understand the reason that was given...

Why?

I have been riding for 45 years, teaching MSF for ten and no question about it, I have even been known to stall my bike on rare occasions....Shocking I know.

It really is a safety feature, experienced or not, a quick restart in traffic is safer than fumbling for neutral.

BTW, on my Norton with only a kick start I must admit it took a bit more effort to kick start if I stalled in traffic. I was very glad mine was a one kick start beast.