R1150GS won't start.

[redbug2]

Hello,

I have a 2000 R1150GS that I picked up in Mid Ohio. It has 5500 miles on it. It's been sitting for quite a while. Changed the oil. Bought a new fuel pump kit. Drained the gas, I've seen worse. Put the gas in my lawn mower and it ran fine. Anyway, took the pump out. Looked it over. Some deterioration of the hoses. Thought I would put it back together while I awaited new hoses, (which I later found I had in the kit). Put some gas in it and it fired right up. Ran fine. Drove it up and down my 400 foot driveway for about 10 minutes and then the bike stopped working.

Would not start, cranked over fine. I could not hear the pump starting when I turned the key on so I decided to tackle installing the new pump. Noticed two fuses were blown under the seat, a 10 and 15 amp fuse. Replaced those.

Got the new pump in, wired it up, tank on, fueled up. Now I can hear the pump whir for about a second every time I turn the key on but no gas coming out under pressure in the two exit line. Should both of those lines hold pressure? One line has gravity fed gas coming out but not when the pump turns on for its one second, the other has nothing.

Any thoughts?

Regards,

redbug2, southeastern PA.

 

[senseamidmadness]

One of the two is a send line with full pressure and the other is a return line which has minimal or no pressure.

 

[cajunrider]

If you can hear the pump turn... remove the tank plate to get access to it and check a few simple items WHILE running it:

- Did any internal hoses come loose or split, causing the fuel to just spray out instead of go to the feed line?
- Is the filter clogged? (Hopefully, you changed it when you changed the hoses & pump.)
- Did you connect the pump wires in reverse polarity causing the pump to suck instead of blow?

That's about all I can think of at the moment... (aside from a factory defective pump)...

 

[redbug2]

If you can hear the pump turn... remove the tank plate to get access to it and check a few simple items WHILE running it:

- Did any internal hoses come loose or split, causing the fuel to just spray out instead of go to the feed line?
- Is the filter clogged? (Hopefully, you changed it when you changed the hoses & pump.)
- Did you connect the pump wires in reverse polarity causing the pump to suck instead of blow?

That's about all I can think of at the moment... (aside from a factory defective pump)...

Thanks for your ideas.

None of the hoses are loose or split. The original pump was spraying gas out from the line connection until I really tightened it when I put it back on.

"- Is the filter clogged? (Hopefully, you changed it when you changed the hoses & pump.)" It was a kit that included a new filter. I'll try to post an image.

"- Did you connect the pump wires in reverse polarity causing the pump to suck instead of blow?" I was thinking about that but I really doubt I wired it incorrectly. It's possible. The pump whirs for a moment then stops. I'm now thinking there is a pressure regulator somewhere in the system that is stuck to off. In other words, it thinks the system is up to pressure when it's not?

 

[rogerc60]

The whirring for a couple of seconds and then stopping is normal. That's controlled by the ECU when you turn on the ignition (and the kill switch is set to RUN and the side stand is up or the transmission is in neutral).

This is a very simple fuel system. The pump output goes to a mechanical pressure regulator / fuel distributor unit that's above the transmission. The pressure regulated output of the regulator splits into two, and those two lines run to the fuel injectors. The bypass output of the regulator goes to the return hose that goes back into the tank. When the engine is running, the pump runs continuously at full speed, delivering its full pressure and flow to the regulator.

 

[cajunrider]

The pump whirs for a moment then stops. I'm now thinking there is a pressure regulator somewhere in the system that is stuck to off. In other words, it thinks the system is up to pressure when it's not?

As mentioned, the regulator is on top of the transmission... I believe in front of the ABS pump (though that may not be exact).
If you're not getting anything out of the tank hoses (either one), then you're not getting anything TO the regulator.

A couple other options that would be a simple solution... just spit-balling here, since I can't think of anything obvious:

Does your tank have quick disconnects? If so, they close when disconnected, so you won't get flow at all. You have to remove the quick disconnect from the hose and test with JUST the hose connected directly to the tank.

I've also connected the tank hoses in reverse before... the regulator doesn't work in reverse, so the bike won't run at all. However, you would still get flow when you disconnect to test.

 

[senseamidmadness]

I've also connected the tank hoses in reverse before... the regulator doesn't work in reverse, so the bike won't run at all. However, you would still get flow when you disconnect to test.

The trick for this is to flip the direction of your quick disconnects. Install the male end in your send line and the female end in your return line and do the same on the opposite side. That way you can't get them mixed up.


To redbug2: I had a similar problem happen to me when I replaced a fuel pump. Mine was a cheapo Ebay special and after only 50 miles it stopped sending enough fuel pressure to start the bike. I figured this out on advice of this forum's users by renting a fuel pressure gauge set from my local auto parts store, which showed that even when dead-ended into the gauge my crappy fuel pump was making 0 PSI of pressure.

Where did your fuel pump come from? Did you have to modify the terminals inside the fuel tank to install it? The factory wiring uses ring terminals of two different sizes for positive and ground so you can't flip the polarity without modification, and quality aftermarket fuel pumps are built with this in mind.


Another thing you should know about is the factory-defective Hall Effect Sensor wiring. If that hasn't been replaced, it will eventually cause a no-start as you'll get either no spark or no fuel injector spray or both when the engine rotates. Even if it's not that issue right now, you should fix it before it causes you trouble.

 

[redbug2]

OK cajunrider, I think you called it with the reversed wires.

I was thinking that could be it. And you made me go after it again. I figured the big eyelet on the wires would be positive when I wired up the connectors. I looked at the wiring diagram again, brown = positive. Old pump large terminal was negative.

Took the pump out for the third time and sure enough, I had it reversed.

While I had it out I replaced the elbow with a shorter version of the tube that I got from my kit. I found a small flexible tube on amazon that was almost a perfect fit, only a little larger than the original.

So, put it all back together with the correct wiring. Put in the gas, key on and a different type of whirring sound, and gas started spraying from the loose tubes. Tightened the clamps around the QD"s and then tried to start it.

It would turn over but would not fire.....

Well I have eliminated one of the variables. And, I have also proved that the old pump had failed.

Last I checked I had great spark.

I guess I will take out an injector. Maybe what was in the line was somewhat solid and it clogged the injectors? I believe I will not see any spray, but we will see.

Thanks everyone for your help. Keep the ideas coming please!

Regards,

Redbug2

Owner of 2 bmw's, R27 (project) and Now a 2000 R1150GS (and too many Japanese bikes)

 

[Omega Man]

Usually a good idea to have a real good battery when testing all these things.
OM

 

[redbug2]

Thanks. Brand new Odyssey battery installed.

 

[redbug2]

The trick for this is to flip the direction of your quick disconnects. Install the male end in your send line and the female end in your return line and do the same on the opposite side. That way you can't get them mixed up.


To redbug2: I had a similar problem happen to me when I replaced a fuel pump. Mine was a cheapo Ebay special and after only 50 miles it stopped sending enough fuel pressure to start the bike. I figured this out on advice of this forum's users by renting a fuel pressure gauge set from my local auto parts store, which showed that even when dead-ended into the gauge my crappy fuel pump was making 0 PSI of pressure.

Where did your fuel pump come from? Did you have to modify the terminals inside the fuel tank to install it? The factory wiring uses ring terminals of two different sizes for positive and ground so you can't flip the polarity without modification, and quality aftermarket fuel pumps are built with this in mind.


Another thing you should know about is the factory-defective Hall Effect Sensor wiring. If that hasn't been replaced, it will eventually cause a no-start as you'll get either no spark or no fuel injector spray or both when the engine rotates. Even if it's not that issue right now, you should fix it before it causes you trouble.

senseamidmadness, great information.

I did put my new QD's in opposite directions by accident and then realized that was a good thing. I'm not 100% sure I have them going into the right lines so today I will reverse them to rule out incorrect piping. I did review a video on-line to see the correct pipes but a quick switch will be telling.

My fuel pump came from beamer boneyard. I will put a pressure gauge on it if it still fails to start.

Thanks for pointing out the Hall Effect Sensor. Mine surely has not been addressed. I replaced most of the wiring harness insulation under the tank and up to the handlebar controls since it all crumbled off. I used about 37 feet of silicone tape.

Here are some images:


Image of the new pump and the short flexible nylon hose. Beamer boneyard kit came with two flexible hoses, I used them for the lines from the tank to the QD's. Not sure that's right but I feel better about the nylon than going with rubber.



Before with all of the installation falling apart. This bike was sitting outside for quite a while.


After


After

 

[cajunrider]

The trick for this is to flip the direction of your quick disconnects. Install the male end in your send line and the female end in your return line and do the same on the opposite side. That way you can't get them mixed up.

That is exactly what I did a few minutes after realizing I had the hoses swapped.

 

[redbug2]

Reversing the fuel lines made no difference. I believe I need to pull the injectors to see what's going on.

 

[pauls1150]

On the intake side of the pump - verify that new filter (which doesn't look like the factory "sock") is permitting flow.

 

[redbug2]

Great news!

Today I took another stab at the problem. Pump was no longer coming on when I put the key on. Checked the fuzes, the 10 amp fuse was blown again. Looked on-line for some tubing images and found some good ones. I think I had the tubes from the tank reversed.

Reversed the tubes and then I removed the right injector from the aluminum manifold. Turned over the engine. Nothing came out. No spray from the injector.

Removed the injector from the fuel line, pointed injector line into a catch funnel sitting in my 5 gallon plastic can. Turned on the key and a strong stream of gas pumped through. Good sign.

Put the injector back on the line, turned it over and it sprayed fuel out while the right cylinder tried to start. Good, stopped trying and remounted the injector. Turned the key, hit the starter button an bingo, it was running.

I think that perhaps removing the injector from the line might have purged the air out of the system?

Running great now. First time I started it last week it smoked a little. Today I let it get up to temperature and not a bit of smoke.

Thanks everyone for you help.

Now I'm on to changing my tires, new front master cylinder piston, rear drive line fluid changes, splines greased, title transferred and who know what else.

Regards,

redbug2

 

[mikegalbicka]

Good job!