Need Help! Was Emergency.

[mtlla70]

It won't be costly to diagnose and you will probably have to do it yourself since its intermittent.

Next time it won't start do just one thing. Pull in the clutch and see if it turns over. Let us know.

Ok. I think I have a lazy neutral safety switch and a bad clutch switch. Here's what happened just now:

Bike on centerstand, sidestand up. Key in ON' position. Kill switch in 'ON' position. Bike in neutral. Neutral light ON. Gear indicator at '0'. Not pulling clutch lever. Press starter button - bike started.

Then - all the same, but bike in 1st gear, clutch lever pulled in. Press starter button - nothing.

Then - bike back in neutral *neutral light did NOT come back on*, but gear indicator showing '0' and rear wheel freely turning. Clutch lever not pulled in. Press starter button - nothing. Then pull in clutch lever and press starter button - still nothing.

Then - toggled between 1st, neutral and 2nd repeatedly and couldn't get neutral light to shine. No start at all.

Then - came inside, poured cup of coffee and typed this.

Based on these tests, would it be safe to say my above hypothesis is likely true; Lazy neutral switch and bad clutch switch?

Thanks!

 

[pauls1150]

Reasonable.
Do the clutch switch first - it's a lot cheaper and a lot easier.
But yeah, that neutral switch too...

 

[mtlla70]

Reasonable.
Do the clutch switch first - it's a lot cheaper and a lot easier.
But yeah, that neutral switch too...

I just remembered that the fella who sold it to me in March of this year mentioned that the neutral light doesn't always come on. I didn't realize at the time what that meant other than the light didn't always come on. But as I have the habit of always pulling in the clutch when starting (my Honda is fairly analogue), I never noticed anything out of the ordinary about the neutral condition.

I'm going to get on that clutch switch right away. Based on what I've read, I am thinking it is something I could do myself. (not a wrencher, but done a few simple things and not afraid to try)
Is this a good, uncomplicated DIY opportunity?

 

[gsaddict]

I just remembered that the fella who sold it to me in March of this year mentioned that the neutral light doesn't always come on. I didn't realize at the time what that meant other than the light didn't always come on. But as I have the habit of always pulling in the clutch when starting (my Honda is fairly analogue), I never noticed anything out of the ordinary about the neutral condition.

I'm going to get on that clutch switch right away. Based on what I've read, I am thinking it is something I could do myself. (not a wrencher, but done a few simple things and not afraid to try)
Is this a good, uncomplicated DIY opportunity?

The clutch switch is easy to replace, you'll need to follow the harness down from the bars cutting the ties and find a 2 pin connector just under the tank.
Although I would not recommend, many simply cut the wires at the switch and short together. (the bike will crank and lurch forward in gear if you don't pull the lever in)
This would get you going until the new switch comes in.
Cleaning the original switch is a hit and miss proposition as they are hermetically sealed and if contact cleaner actually got to the contacts water will too. Not a long term fix.

 

[mtlla70]

Cleaning the original switch is a hit and miss proposition as they are hermetically sealed and if contact cleaner actually got to the contacts they water will too. Not a long term fix.

Great. I have another bike, so I am in not need a super quick fix. I will order a new switch and install. That sounds like a safer idea then wiring together…

Maybe I will try wiring them together just to confirm that it is actually the problem?

 

[gsaddict]

Great. I have another bike, so I am in not need a super quick fix. I will order a new switch and install. That sounds like a safer idea then wiring together…

Maybe I will try wiring them together just to confirm that it is actually the problem?

yes that would work.

 

[mtlla70]

yes that would work.

I'm going to order the part anyway. I am seeing it for about $42 from BMW. Seems like a fair price, but if there is a cheaper (reliable) option, I'm all ears...

 

[cycleman2]

Before you go throwing money around, have your battery load tested. At the very least do a resting Volt reading, charge the battery for 24 hrs, then let it rest for 24 and see what reading you get. Should be 12.6 or better, and in fact most newer AGM batteries will test around 12.8 + after sitting for a day.. If the battery is older than 3 yrs then I'd look at changing it. Also check the battery connections. Not sure if your bike has ABS, but if the fuel pump cycles on then stops, and when you touch the starter button nothing happens, it is likely not low voltage related and could very well be one of the safety interlocks, like the clutch, side stand and neutral switch. If memory serves me correct most of these can be bypassed one at a time to figure out what the problem is. If the ABS & fuel pump cycle on, then it is normally not low voltage as they need a minimum of 11 + volts to function.

With respect to the side stand switch you can bypass it to rule out that if it is causing any of the problem.

The R1100 still used a conventional coil set up, so if it won't start when the bike is hot from a run on the highway/city but starts when it cools, then look at the coil.

HES tend to cause more problems when conditions are wet or damp, but on a higher mileage bike, that hasn't had it replaced then also a possibility.

Electrical is always a process of elimination, change one thing, check, no change, put it back, then move onto the next on your list. Contrary to some views don't put dielectric grease on any of the electrical contacts, it is designed to keep moisture out of a connection, not insure that the connections has good contacts. Clean the contacts using a brand name electrical contact cleaner and push the connectors back together. You can put dielectric grease on the rear of the connector to keep moisture out ( if the connector is open ended and not sealed), but other than that don't use it on the actual contacts.

 

[m_stock10506]

The side stand safety switch and the kill switch are wired in series. If the fuel pump is cycling at key On, then those two are working and they are in the "Run" position. The lazy Neutral switch is common on these bikes - it's a pain to replace because of its location on the edge of the transmission. A lazy Neutral switch combined with a failed clutch safety switch will prevent you from starting - unless you bump start the bike or sidestep the starter relay and force the starter motor to run.

 

[mtlla70]

Before you go throwing money around, have your battery load tested. At the very least do a resting Volt reading, charge the battery for 24 hrs, then let it rest for 24 and see what reading you get. Should be 12.6 or better, and in fact most newer AGM batteries will test around 12.8 + after sitting for a day.. If the battery is older than 3 yrs then I'd look at changing it. Also check the battery connections. Not sure if your bike has ABS, but if the fuel pump cycles on then stops, and when you touch the starter button nothing happens, it is likely not low voltage related and could very well be one of the safety interlocks, like the clutch, side stand and neutral switch. If memory serves me correct most of these can be bypassed one at a time to figure out what the problem is. If the ABS & fuel pump cycle on, then it is normally not low voltage as they need a minimum of 11 + volts to function

Thanks! Great info. I'm thinking clutch switch. Fuel pump cycles with key on and kill switch flipped on. Not sure age of battery, so I will check to avoid future issues...

 

[mtlla70]

The side stand safety switch and the kill switch are wired in series. If the fuel pump is cycling at key On, then those two are working and they are in the "Run" position. The lazy Neutral switch is common on these bikes - it's a pain to replace because of its location on the edge of the transmission. A lazy Neutral switch combined with a failed clutch safety switch will prevent you from starting - unless you bump start the bike or sidestep the starter relay and force the starter motor to run.

Thanks! Yup - that is exactly what happens. I tried again earlier and bike started, clutch engaged with neutral light on. Then did not start in 1st with clutch disengaged. Fuel pump cycles normally every time.

 

[mtlla70]

...but to be clear, the neutral light is indeed lazy.

 

[mtlla70]

Update: I just clipped the little clutch switch cable and wound the two wires together. The bike now starts in gear with clutch disengaged. FYI - I am aware that it will now start in gear with clutch engaged, so I will be vigilant until my new switch arrives...
Thanks for all your help here!!!

 

[mtlla70]

Now the best way to dig out the old switch..? I heard an 11mm socket? Not sure one will fit in there...

 

[gsaddict]

Well done mtla70

 

[mtlla70]

Well done mtla70

Thanks! I know very little about MC mechanics, but you all on this forum are very helpful in beginning to de-mystify it for me...