full face helmets vs. flip ups

[ultracyclist]

Does anyone know of any "flip up" helmets that are both DOT and snell approved?

Without sounding ghoulish or negative, has anyone experienced or heard of an incident where one impacted the front of a "flip up"? What was the outcome?

I have an Arai Quantum II full face. I also wear glasses, so every time I put on or take off the helmet, I need to remove my glasses. The flips have alot of appeal, but I do not want to take unneccessary risk that I can manage.

Ms. Cohen had an article in the recent issue of ON, but I am not sold yet.
MCN, in my opinion, has been fairly quiet about the flips.

Thanks in advance for your input,
Ultra

 

[kurt1305]

I believe I read last year that none had been submitted for Snell testing as of yet. As a paramedic in a busy urban system, I can say that I have never seen an accident where I felt that the flip-face helmet allowed an injury that a full-faced helmet would have prevented. I've read the internet horror stories, but really feel that the flip-face style is probably 95% as protective. I feel that any impact severe enough to warrant additional protection likely caused other fatal injuries as well. Again, just my anecdotal opinion.

 

[LARRYLARRY75]

Does anyone know of any "flip up" helmets that are both DOT and snell approved?

Without sounding ghoulish or negative, has anyone experienced or heard of an incident where one impacted the front of a "flip up"? What was the outcome?

I have an Arai Quantum II full face. I also wear glasses, so every time I put on or take off the helmet, I need to remove my glasses. The flips have alot of appeal, but I do not want to take unneccessary risk that I can manage.

Ms. Cohen had an article in the recent issue of ON, but I am not sold yet.
MCN, in my opinion, has been fairly quiet about the flips.

Thanks in advance for your input,
Ultra

There is a pretty fair article on webBikeWorld's site that deals with this subject as well as compares several of the main brands. None of the helmets tested failed any of the tests for protection, including having the flip-up device fail. Most of the ratings dealt with noise level, comfort, visability, etc.

Here's a link to their site: http://www.webbikeworld.com/

Note: Apart from the webBikeWorld article I did read a couple of negative letters from Roof helmets owners who claimed theirs had failed during crashes. A few others have indicated the Roof flip-up is dificult to secure because it employs external snaps on tabs. Not being able to easily secure the flip-up seemed to be the cause for failure, at least if you believe them. I personally like the Roof and I've talked to a couple of owners who also like them so if it's one you're interested in be sure you research it thoroughly.

Overall I believe the better quality manufacturers are building safe flip-up helmets and as long as you stay with one of them you should be just fine. I don't wear glasses but I really enjoy the freedom provided by this design. My choice was Shoei's Syncrotec, great reviews plus personal experience with the brand and available on eBay for $375 delivered.

Hope this helps.

Larry

 

[ultracyclist]

Did you look at Nolan?

Ultra

 

[kbasa]

Our own GBMLaw had a really, really bad experience with a flip up. HJC maybe? I seem to remember it actually opened on him when he hit a deer.

 

[greer]

I do like my Nolan N100. Fooling with my glasses was driving me nuts.

Sarah

 

[ultracyclist]

Sarah,
Did you look at other flips?
Thanks,
Howard

 

[greer]

Howard,

No, I really didn't. Seems like I read a good review but I couldn't tell you where. Major selling point was a buddy who was tickled with his. I've had mine a year and have no complaints.

Sarah

 

[LORAZEPAM]

Our own GBMLaw had a really, really bad experience with a flip up. HJC maybe? I seem to remember it actually opened on him when he hit a deer.

I believe it was a Jarrow, or whatever their name is now.

 

[Kev95gs]

I have a Nolan now and had an HJC prior to that. Both flip. I love it.

I did have a small "get off" while wearing the HJC and slid down a gravel road but had no issues with the helmet opening or otherwise.

The Nolan that I have now is lighter and I like it a little better.

I do believe there was a comparo in MCN within the last year over a lot of the flip ups and the Nolan is the only one with metal to metal latches.

My .02

Kevin

 

[gregfeeler]

Snell has not developed a test specifiec for flip up helments that I am aware of. A few months ago Rider (IIRC) magazine did a very impressive test of helments which caused me to belive that I do NOT want a Snell certified helment, that the DOT-only ones likely will give better protection in typical real world accidents. As mentioned, MCN did an nice review (not a test) of flip-up helments within the last year and gave their best buy to the Nolan N100.

I am on my third N100. First one went six hard years. Got another N100 last fall and then the other guy's insurance company bought me a replacement as the result of an unplanned getoff in Decemeber. I know from experience that the build quality of Nolan is excellent, plus they use metal fasteners like some (but not all) other flip-up designs. I looked around at alternatives, but those (Shoei, Schuberth, etc.) either don't fit my head well (the Nolan fits me like a glove), or they don't seem to be any better (build, features) a helmet but almost a lot more $$$. Some are to me clearly not as well made. If you want a sun visior, the new VPS (Vision Protection System) external sun shield for the Nolans seems to work really well. Surprized me - I thought it would be a gimmick. There are three flavors of Nolan now: X1002, N100E, and N102.

I would never buy a flip-up without metal latches, but beyond that, buy what fits your head from a brand name company. Fit is first, last, and always the most important IMHO. Then look for features and function (sun shade, ease of latching, etc.) And, as I said above, the lack of Snell certification is now to me a recommendation.

 

[ultracyclist]

I wish that some eccentic billionare ( who also rides) would commisson independent helmet studies to about a dozen engineering firms and testing organizations around the world.

I have read much about helmets in the periodicals (Rider, MCN, etc.), and I have concluded: wearing a helmet is better than not wearing one, venting/extra features/adjustable visors are functions of price.

But this "protection" element is like trying hit a moving target. Or as one of my teammates would say: " ..like trying to stuff a hurricane through a moving hula-hoop!"

Obviously, comfort/correct fit is important, and that is probably the over riding factor. Does that mean that a budget helmet fitting correctly will afford more protection than a premium helmet that may be a millemeter or two off in fit?

I think the magazines are afraid of losing advertising; and therefore, there are no "bad" helmets. Interestingly, Schoei elected not to participate in one of the research surveys, and that is certainly a repected manufacturer.

Hey I am new to "rads", by all means, straighten my out if you think I am wrong or mis-informed.

Thanks,
Ultra

 

[haddoncoach]

flip up helmet

I have a Shoie Syncotech and it is excellent. Having owned both full face and flip up styles over the years I see no difference other than the ease of ingress/egress. (Flip up may be a LITTLE noisier but negated by earplugs anyway).Steel latches and top shelf fit are the key ingredients. Buy the best helmet you can afford and make sure it FITS CORRECTLY. That is the way to be safe.

 

[gregfeeler]

But this "protection" element is like trying hit a moving target. Or as one of my teammates would say: " ..like trying to stuff a hurricane through a moving hula-hoop!"

Obviously, comfort/correct fit is important, and that is probably the over riding factor. Does that mean that a budget helmet fitting correctly will afford more protection than a premium helmet that may be a millemeter or two off in fit?

I did some checking, and it was the June, 2005 issue of Motor Cyclist with the hemet test called "Blowing The Lid Off". Excellent stuff. From that article it seems *all* the DOT certified helmets are going to give you as good of protection as any helment will do in a given set of circumstances. In fact, the "best" protection by their way of seeing it came from a $100 full-face model. See of you can get a copy somewhere. If you can't, PM me with your mailing address and I'll send you a photo copy.

Fit = comfort = reduced fatigue. My view is you (hopefully) will seledom or never need the protection of the helmet, but you wear it every minute of riding.

I think the magazines are afraid of losing advertising; and therefore, there are no "bad" helmets. Interestingly, Schoei elected not to participate in one of the research surveys, and that is certainly a repected manufacturer.

That's one of the reasons I read MCN. However, I didn't get the impression Motor Cyclist pulled any puches in their test.

Hey I am new to "rads", by all means, straighten my out if you think I am wrong or mis-informed.

You're asking the same questions I've asked myself and I expect most have at some time. Where is a millionaire when you need one?

 

[boxerkuh]

I have been riding with flip helmets for years and I love them. I must admit that I ride with them often open, which I know you are not suppose to do. My first flip helmet was a Shoei helmet, which I found fit great was very expensive. With riding it open it had some helmet buffering. I replace it with a Nolan and I am now on my second one. I prefer it over the Shoei for two reasons: price and much less helmet buffering when riding with it open. The Nolan has the lowest design from all flip helmets. My brother chance from the HJC model to the Nolan this year and he loves his too.

You need to find a helmet that fits your head shape first. I have tried a Schubert helmet and eventhough I am born and raised German and Schubert is a German company it does not fit my head proberly. I can only wear Shoei, Nolan and Uvex (a helmet company in Europe - I think also German, not sure). I stay with those companies and I know I will be happy. Nothing beats trying different models on and wearing it for a little bit.... pressure points will drive you crazy and you will not that helmet for long...

 

[Rinty]

flip helmet safety

Motorcyclist did lose some advertisers after they ran their helmet article last year. I think that piece is the most important one that's been written in the last 10 years.
A friend of mine had a bad crash 2 years ago, and he swears by the HJC flip that he was wearing. I have a Nolan N 100 e and can highly recommend it.
The main thing is to get a good fit.

Rinty

 

[gregfeeler]

Motorcyclist did lose some advertisers after they ran their helmet article last year. I think that piece is the most important one that's been written in the last 10 years.
Rinty

They earned many years of subscription renewals from me.

 

[PacWestGS]

I'm gonna post here, because I really believe in Safety

ultracyclist, I agree with what others' are saying. Shop around, buy the best 'Fitting' helmet you can afford, and the one you are likely to wear all the time; even a slow speed 'shopping run' to the corner gas/mart.

While you are planning your helmet expedition, have an idea of what you want and can afford before you get in the store, then find the one that fits, (ask the sells rep to measure your noggin') then try on the one you like, chin strap and all. Then spend the next hour oodeling and googelling over all the other neat stuff and bikes you can't have yet.

If after an 'hour' or so; you still like the one on your head, (comfort, fit, no headaches), and the bells and whistles you want, buy it. This is your new helmet.

If that hour just didn't work for you, you have other options: Stay and try another one, or come back tomorrow (best). The store may let you take it home in a box and in a cage, but if you ride with it, you usually bought it.

I wear a Shuberth C2 and like it very much (four-years now), it's not as quiet as my Shoei RF-200 (full-face) but more flexible in use, I like the neck gator and the built in sun visor. I too, ride with up at times up to 45. IÔÇÖm not afraid of not being able to close it fast-enough, because it latches (steel to steel) every time with one hand.




Gale, I believe you are correct. Mr. GBMlaw was wearing a Jarrow/Arrow flip-helmet that popped the hinge on a severe frontal impact. (It may have saved his life, by absorbing the impact over a full-face, BUT I really don't want to GO THERE again). I do know that he survived with all of his facultiesÔÇÖ (Intellect) intact.

IÔÇÖm going back to ÔÇÿProfessional ing ÔÇÖ now (I actually learned that from him). Have fun, ride safe.

 

[RIDERR1150GSADV]

If I was looking for a flip up I would give the new Nolan X 1002 a close look. I wore it for a bit and it was very comfy to me. It seems very well built and has some nice features and it felt light enough for all day riding. I didn't take it for a spin on the bike so I don't know how noisy/quiet it is however.
The Schuberth is ECE, TUV and DOT approved which, IMHO makes that helmet one of the safest flips. It really boils down to what fits you the best. Don't get to fixated on Snell aproved lids. Good shopping!

 

[rotunnom]

I got a new Nolan N102 for Christmas and really like it. The article Sandy C. wrote in the latest ON is right on as far as features go although I think the helmet is a little noisy.
I like the VPS as an alternative to wearing sunglasses. I read a review of the VPS that mentioned that the lower edge of the tinted shield was right in the authorÔÇÖs line of site. But, for me, I look through the middle and the lower edge doesnÔÇÖt bother me even with the visor cracked open a notch or two.
The cool aerodynamic shape gives less wind resistance when facing forward than the N100e (my other helmet) but when I turn my head sideways, I get a nice little push back. Surprised me the first couple of times it happened but now IÔÇÖm ready for it.
The fit and finish are great and for me, it is very comfortable.