Everybody's a rider coach now......

[ANDYVH]

With the proliferation of YouTube and cheap helmet cams, there are WAY too many people out there who "think" they know enough about riding to create training videos to teach others to ride. Danger Will Robinson!

Granted, there are a few I actually like and have referrenced for some background on training and understanding novice riders. But many are so generalized, many are simply wrong or misleading, but its part of the "info-age" we live in. Or should we begin to call it the "misinfo-age".

Perhaps I'm just cynical after devoting 20 years to effective instruction as a MSF rider coach, and working to the expectations placed on us Rider Coaches to be very effective teachers and riders.

 

[blur]

Yep.

There's a guy over at another forum that posted a vid a few months back. I pointed out a few things he could do to improve and he replied with things like "oh yeah", "hey, I never thought of that" and "that's a good idea".

I thought maybe this was his first vid and I tried politely to hint that maybe he wanted to get some more experience and formal training. I found out later he has LOTS of videos uploaded.

 

[jstrube]

Aw come on! Post some of the doosies for us!

 

[motorman587]

A couple of years ago on BMW sporttourning fourm I use to get into with the guys about their RideSmart course they offer for free. Just a bunch of guys teaching others to ride. One thing I would get them about is the body position in a curve. Body leans with the motor, head level, and looking though the curve.

They teach the "kiss the mirror", method where one leans forward and to the inside, ie almost kissing the mirror. Elbow tucked in and down.

For years I though this was bull, sit up straight as taught at MSF and motor cops.

Couple of months ago I attended the MSF new ERC-ST and what are we coaching now, the kiss method. LOL

So I am taken back and see that there are others that can teach. I have over the years have learned to keep an open mind. A way, is that, a way, and not maybe the way. We all have tool boxes at home. There are so many tools to get the job done. We just have to find the right one.

 

[dwyandell]

......A way, is that, a way, and not maybe the way. We all have tool boxes at home. There are so many tools to get the job done. We just have to find the right one.

So wait, John, are you saying that we should hit them with a toolbox??? I'm confused !?!?

Seriously, the world needs more open-minded people . . . thanks for your post john.

 

[greenwald]

Nice try, Andy.

 

[roborider]

They teach the "kiss the mirror", method where one leans forward and to the inside, ie almost kissing the mirror. Elbow tucked in and down.

For years I though this was bull, sit up straight as taught at MSF and motor cops.

Motorcycling is learned in stages. When you start, the MSF method of keeping in line is the way to go. You can't teach someone who is just learning to kiss a mirror, point the elbow, and drag a knee around a corner.

Both methods are correct depending on the skill level, machine, and purpose of the ride (street or track, etc.).

But, I think we all can agree that there might be more than one right way, but there are far more absolutely WRONG ways!

 

[greenwald]

Motorcycling is learned in stages. When you start, the MSF method of keeping in line is the way to go. You can't teach someone who is just learning to kiss a mirror, point the elbow, and drag a knee around a corner.

Both methods are correct depending on the skill level, machine, and purpose of the ride (street or track, etc.).

But, I think we all can agree that there might be more than one right way, but there are far more absolutely WRONG ways!

Quite true.

 

[39520]

Interesting read about the value of motorcycle training:

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/05/motorcycle-training-does-not-reduce-crash-risk-study-says/

 

[greenwald]

Interesting read about the value of motorcycle training:

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/05/motorcycle-training-does-not-reduce-crash-risk-study-says/

Yes........and no.

Really, the Times article didn't tell us RiderCoaches anything we didn't already know. The MSF Basic Rider Course is just that. BASIC.

Designed to teach a novice how to operate a motorcycle, to standards that meet or exceed what he/she would be exposed to on the DMV written and road tests for license endorsement in all fifty states. Period.

However, I know of few RiderCoaches that do not send their newbies out into the world without first giving them some sobering advice.

My 'schpeel' goes something like this:

"What you have been exposed to over the last sixteen hours are the basics of motorcycle operation and an appreciation for risk assessment and risk management. Unless you take these perishable skills and make them habits, you will soon forget what you've learned here (loss of motor memory), and the odds of you becoming a tragic statistic increases greatly. Practice certain techniques and paths of travel every time you ride, building on what you have learned here, and consider motorcycling as a lifetime pursuit of education and advanced training. Ultimately, only you will be responsible for your safety. Ride alert, ride ATGATT, ride often and see you out on the road."

While rare that I read any familar names in accident headlines, inexplicably rare that I also see any returning students for advanced classes.

 

[ANDYVH]

Yup the BRC is structured to give a new or returning rider good "basic" skills from which to hopefully survive, and grow into a more experienced rider. The old ERC was in essence, much the same program, only difference being the riders were on their own bikes.

That said, the BRC and ERC taught simple, basic riding styles that anyone could adopt. Once the basics are covered, the rider can mature into other methods of riding to expand the knowledge and skills. I myself use far more than the skills sets taught in the BRC and ERC and in fact I have developed into many of the skills taught in the more advanced classes by my own study and practice. Additionally, dirt riding and ice riding have taught me a lot more about motorcycle dynamics. I'm looking forward to getting trained for the ARC this year, and to add more skills to my riding background.

But I too tell my BRC students that after 16 hours in the class, they have gained the "basic skill sets to build from and expand their riding capabilites."

 

[ANDYVH]

Y'know, I'm not saying non-MSF instructors, or for that matter, non-professional trainers cannot train other riders. Some probably can.

But since I have been a MSF rider coach now for 20 years and worked with many instructors I can even say some of our own have not been effective instructors. I can also say that after seven years of night school to get my college degree, I also had many college professors who I thought were marginal teachers and I learned a lot from their lack of effectiveness.

Certainly though, for what the MSF requires of the motorcycle riders who are willing to take the time to become and maintain certification as MSF instructors, its a LOT more than just slapping a helmet cam on your lid and talking about what you "think" you know about effective teaching and motorcycle handling and dynamics.

And to think when I started riding back in 73, my dad gave me the basics about cycle controls, and off I went! Whew! I survived those first years, got better, and got about 20 years riding under me before becoming an instructor. How did we ever survive the early days?