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Cop Pulls gun on motorcycle rider
- Thread starter roborider
- Start date
statdawg
High & Dry
The definition of ÔÇ£oral communicationÔÇØ under MarylandÔÇÖs wiretap law requires that the conversation be ÔÇ£private,ÔÇØ which is to say that it must be one in which the party being recorded has a reasonable expectation of privacy. Fearnow v. C & P Telephone Co., 104 Md. App. 1, 33, 655 A.2d 1 (1995), affÔÇÖd, 342 Md. 363, 676 A.2d 65 (1996). According to the Maryland Attorney GeneralÔÇÖs office, it is not a crime to record a very public conversation, such as a political party meeting, even in secret.
Another example of a very public conversation would be a screaming match in the middle of the busiest highway in the United States, in which guns are drawn in full view of onlookers. Did this officer honestly believe that he was having a private chat with Graber?
Another example of a very public conversation would be a screaming match in the middle of the busiest highway in the United States, in which guns are drawn in full view of onlookers. Did this officer honestly believe that he was having a private chat with Graber?
roborider
God? What god?
Lot's of good points.
I'd like to add that I judge people as individuals. I ride with a retired trooper here in Raleigh: Great guy, honest guy, stand up guy.
But, I don't like MOST cops. Buddies of mine are California Highway Patrol. Some are stand up guys.
So, when I say I don't trust cops, I mean until you know what kind of man he is, you can't trust him.
But, yes, I always do what a cop says. You're asking for an ass whooping if you don't.
Finally, the biker was an idiot and deserves proper punishment for his actions. The arrest for the video, well, I can't even begin to understand that.
I'd like to add that I judge people as individuals. I ride with a retired trooper here in Raleigh: Great guy, honest guy, stand up guy.
But, I don't like MOST cops. Buddies of mine are California Highway Patrol. Some are stand up guys.
So, when I say I don't trust cops, I mean until you know what kind of man he is, you can't trust him.
But, yes, I always do what a cop says. You're asking for an ass whooping if you don't.
Finally, the biker was an idiot and deserves proper punishment for his actions. The arrest for the video, well, I can't even begin to understand that.
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mika
Still Wondering
The thing part of all of this that struck me is the furor is over the posting on YouTube and the resulting warrant and action taken for that.
The rider was breaking the law.
The rider was caught.
The rider went to court and was punished and paid all related fines.
The rider was an idiot when riding.
The camera was in plain sight mounted on the side of his helmet during the entire incident.
The video was posted after all court actions and fines were paid.
Then the police saught and were granted a warrant and arrested him for post the video on YouTube.
Many of you take video as you ride. You post on public forums. Does this have a chilling effect on you?
Just curious.
The rider was breaking the law.
The rider was caught.
The rider went to court and was punished and paid all related fines.
The rider was an idiot when riding.
The camera was in plain sight mounted on the side of his helmet during the entire incident.
The video was posted after all court actions and fines were paid.
Then the police saught and were granted a warrant and arrested him for post the video on YouTube.
Many of you take video as you ride. You post on public forums. Does this have a chilling effect on you?
Just curious.
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roborider
God? What god?
crazydrummerdude
advrider.com
statdawg
High & Dry
Yes I am thinking about going retro.
Attachments
statdawg
High & Dry
What makes public safety and law enforcement jumpy are stories like this that happened in Pennsylvania.
June 13, 2006
LINDEN, Pa. -- A motorcycle slammed into a minivan, knocking it on its side and sparking an explosion that killed all four people inside and the motorcyclist, police said. The van was turning off Route 220 when the motorcycle hit it Sunday afternoon with so much force it broke through the side of the minivan and knocked it over, state police spokesman Mike Knight said. The motorcyclist was identified as Mitchel Ryan Levan, 20, of South Williamsport. The victims in the minivan were identified as the driver, Tammie Sutter, 37; her daughter, Chelsea, 11; Rodney Dishong, 52; and his mother, Ida-Mae Dishong, 70. All four were from Jersey Shore, Pa., officials said.
Are vehicles considered weapons ?
June 13, 2006
LINDEN, Pa. -- A motorcycle slammed into a minivan, knocking it on its side and sparking an explosion that killed all four people inside and the motorcyclist, police said. The van was turning off Route 220 when the motorcycle hit it Sunday afternoon with so much force it broke through the side of the minivan and knocked it over, state police spokesman Mike Knight said. The motorcyclist was identified as Mitchel Ryan Levan, 20, of South Williamsport. The victims in the minivan were identified as the driver, Tammie Sutter, 37; her daughter, Chelsea, 11; Rodney Dishong, 52; and his mother, Ida-Mae Dishong, 70. All four were from Jersey Shore, Pa., officials said.
Are vehicles considered weapons ?
tinytrains
Still plays with trains.
I watched the entire video. A middle age guy being stupid on a bike.
My fault with the cop was not identifying himself. Only after the bike is off, does he say "state police". In an interview with the squid, he was scared out of what few wits he had. He was being car jacked at first. What if it was an off duty cop being stupid on a bike? It could have been ugly.
The arrest for posting on Youtube is scary. It can be argued to be "newsworthy", at which point releases are not needed.
It will be interesting to watch.
Scott
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/04/19/motorcyclist-arrested-for-recording-cop-brandishing-gun-with-hel/
My fault with the cop was not identifying himself. Only after the bike is off, does he say "state police". In an interview with the squid, he was scared out of what few wits he had. He was being car jacked at first. What if it was an off duty cop being stupid on a bike? It could have been ugly.
The arrest for posting on Youtube is scary. It can be argued to be "newsworthy", at which point releases are not needed.
It will be interesting to watch.
Scott
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/04/19/motorcyclist-arrested-for-recording-cop-brandishing-gun-with-hel/
Vehicles and guns are both inherently dangerous machines. I don't see a whole lot of difference between agro reckless driving in traffic and brandishing a gun in a crowd. There is merely, and illogically, more social baggage piled on the second than first instance. This rider is dangerous a**hole.
The cop's exit with the gun, not showing a badge, was sloppy. I also feel it shows this individual believes his power lies mostly with his availability of force, rather than with his authority as a sworn peace officer. It is not as though the stopped rider could draw and fire with those gloves on, if he were armed. If the cop were actually worried about his own safety, he would have angled the car the other way to provide some cover on exiting. Cop was just struttin' - lousy chip on shoulder attitude.
It is interesting the police want video on their cars, but do not want the rest of us to have it. As the story shows, these police are hyperparanoid about it. Oh, wait a minute, you aren't a paranoid if these is really something to fear. So I wonder, what else they have been doing when they think, or hope, no one is watching?
I did see the video of the university beating. Completely unprovoked, accompanied by lies in the police report. I guess whoever shot that video should be charged as a felon in Maryland, too? But without that video, the victims of those police would have been labeled "perps"
So will Maryland be issuing concealed videocam permits soon? A privilege for only the well connected, of course?
The cop's exit with the gun, not showing a badge, was sloppy. I also feel it shows this individual believes his power lies mostly with his availability of force, rather than with his authority as a sworn peace officer. It is not as though the stopped rider could draw and fire with those gloves on, if he were armed. If the cop were actually worried about his own safety, he would have angled the car the other way to provide some cover on exiting. Cop was just struttin' - lousy chip on shoulder attitude.
It is interesting the police want video on their cars, but do not want the rest of us to have it. As the story shows, these police are hyperparanoid about it. Oh, wait a minute, you aren't a paranoid if these is really something to fear. So I wonder, what else they have been doing when they think, or hope, no one is watching?
I did see the video of the university beating. Completely unprovoked, accompanied by lies in the police report. I guess whoever shot that video should be charged as a felon in Maryland, too? But without that video, the victims of those police would have been labeled "perps"
So will Maryland be issuing concealed videocam permits soon? A privilege for only the well connected, of course?
Bud
It is what it is.
Yes. Via red light cams, and surveillance cams by the thousands in large cities (I think NYC has the most) the government monitors citizens on a daily basis, and it has been found to be legal by the courts. It seems strange that the government is now going to try to say recording by citizens is not legal.
mistercindy
New member
I do wonder if there were other facts involved. I don't think the motorcyclist was fleeing, because if he was fleeing he wouldn't be stopping for traffic signals. I suspect the marked vehicle behind them happened on the scene, but of course I can't be sure. Frankly, I'm a little surprised that the motorcyclist didn't gun it (pardon the pun 
) the moment that unmarked car cut him off. Who could blame him, as there was no indication it was an officer.
What I do know, regardless of the facts, is that the officer driving the unmarked car needlessly put civilians at risk. When he cut off that motorcycle there was nothing to indicate he was an officer. His stop had all the earmarks of being the result of road rage, and it put civilians at risk because they had no idea what was happening. Any accident as a result of his unmarked car sitting diagonally in that lane would have resulted in a lawsuit where he and his department would have been liable and the taxpayers would have paid the price. My guess is that is the reason for the later arrest and attempt to confiscate the video.
What should he have done? He could have gotten on his radio and called for assistance from a car with lights and sirens. No radio? Call 911 and ask for the same. No cell phone? See if you can write down the tag number, then suck it up and realize you're in an unmarked car with no lights and siren, and you can't safely enforce traffic laws.
My perspective is one of an Assistant DA who defends police officers in civil lawsuits. I've settled cases with facts like these. An officer in an unmarked vehicle with no lights or siren, sees a traffic violation of some kind, gets mad, and thinks he is magically assigned to traffic, then creates conditions that result in a major accident because other civilian drivers have no clue he's an officer. And I've never seen the circumstance where that behavior didn't violate the department's policies and procedures.
) the moment that unmarked car cut him off. Who could blame him, as there was no indication it was an officer.What I do know, regardless of the facts, is that the officer driving the unmarked car needlessly put civilians at risk. When he cut off that motorcycle there was nothing to indicate he was an officer. His stop had all the earmarks of being the result of road rage, and it put civilians at risk because they had no idea what was happening. Any accident as a result of his unmarked car sitting diagonally in that lane would have resulted in a lawsuit where he and his department would have been liable and the taxpayers would have paid the price. My guess is that is the reason for the later arrest and attempt to confiscate the video.
What should he have done? He could have gotten on his radio and called for assistance from a car with lights and sirens. No radio? Call 911 and ask for the same. No cell phone? See if you can write down the tag number, then suck it up and realize you're in an unmarked car with no lights and siren, and you can't safely enforce traffic laws.
My perspective is one of an Assistant DA who defends police officers in civil lawsuits. I've settled cases with facts like these. An officer in an unmarked vehicle with no lights or siren, sees a traffic violation of some kind, gets mad, and thinks he is magically assigned to traffic, then creates conditions that result in a major accident because other civilian drivers have no clue he's an officer. And I've never seen the circumstance where that behavior didn't violate the department's policies and procedures.
I always wondered what became of him. Maybe he was angry for having never been a good kicker. He was the Cowboys last "toe" kicker. Replaced by the late and overweight ex-Austrian soccer player, Tony Fritcsh, who was a helluva kicker in his day. Fritcsh and Ray Wersching are the only Austrian kickers with super bowl rings, BTW.
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ted
Dum vivimus vivamus
It isn't the Government who you should worry about, it is private enterprise. Just about every facet of your life is tracked by businesses, from what you buy at the grocery store to what web sites you visit. All of this information is bought and collected, amalgamated, and sold by consumer data companies. The basis of protection for the individual is the FCRA, though its focus is credit reporting agencies and other businesses that collect information used to determine creditworthiness of consumers. The real insidious collectors are those who collect and sell data to be used for everything from direct marketing to consumers to issue-oriented direct political advocacy (ie those phone calls you get every night at dinner time in the months before an election.)
Basically, if you smoke, don't buy cigarettes at the grocery store if you use a savings card.
Basically, if you smoke, don't buy cigarettes at the grocery store if you use a savings card.
saylorspond
New member
mika
Still Wondering
That's right it's the evil corporations that are out to get us and take away our freedoms. That is why we have a constitution and bill of rights, to protect us from private enterprise! Oh, wait....
Actually in part it does, but that is a debate for another thread on another forum. Before this thread heads to the pound I have to say what intrigues me in this story is the freedom to v. freedom from issue here and all sorts of implications for our photography forum and the country in general and the growing gap between the law and where technology is taking society. In this case the freedom to video and post a video versus the expectation of protection by citizens from this without permission.
MOTOR31
New member
This thread is pretty much why I don't bother with any more cop threads here. It's just an exercise in bashing folks and tarring an entire group of people with a very broad brush.
Robo you made your position quite clear. "But, I don't like MOST cops. Buddies of mine are California Highway Patrol. Some are stand up guys.
So, when I say I don't trust cops, I mean until you know what kind of man he is, you can't trust him."
Frankly speaking, I seriously doubt you have met "most cops" so you have no idea what they are like either professionally or socially. You still feel privileged to pass judgement in advance however based on your bias on folks you have never met. I believe that pretty much qualifies as prejudice. If it makes you happy, enjoy it, but it is your problem not anyone else's.
Robo you made your position quite clear. "But, I don't like MOST cops. Buddies of mine are California Highway Patrol. Some are stand up guys.
So, when I say I don't trust cops, I mean until you know what kind of man he is, you can't trust him."
Frankly speaking, I seriously doubt you have met "most cops" so you have no idea what they are like either professionally or socially. You still feel privileged to pass judgement in advance however based on your bias on folks you have never met. I believe that pretty much qualifies as prejudice. If it makes you happy, enjoy it, but it is your problem not anyone else's.
Having read post after passionate post about this incident on both the Goldwing forum and this forum over the last week or so, I have to say that posts #35 and #39 are, IMHO, the most cogent and fact based synopsis of what is wrong, and what is potentially wrong with this situation, of any of the thousands I have read. I'm glad it's over...........for me, now, anyway.
88bmwjeff
SF Bay Area
This has been somewhat of an interesting read, and as Hlothery pointed out that it turned (somewhat) into cop bashing. Granted there are some bad apples in the bunch. But, that is true of all professions. I don't think it's appropriate to label the entire group that way.
I appreciate Mistercindy's response. That summed things up the best, IMO, with regards to the incident.
On the second note, I didn't initially realize the charges and confiscation of good due to the posting of the video. That's an entirely different issue, and with regards to that, I think the police department is wrong here. The laws may state otherwise. But, I don't think it's appropriate to allow police officers to video tape incidents and not allow citizens. Just my opinion here.
I appreciate Mistercindy's response. That summed things up the best, IMO, with regards to the incident.
On the second note, I didn't initially realize the charges and confiscation of good due to the posting of the video. That's an entirely different issue, and with regards to that, I think the police department is wrong here. The laws may state otherwise. But, I don't think it's appropriate to allow police officers to video tape incidents and not allow citizens. Just my opinion here.
