Compassion during tough times

[hlothery]

Read today in the paper about a Homeowner's Association in San Antonio which has foreclosed on 84 homeowners in their 400 home subdivision, and scheduled an auction in two weeks. Seems the homeowners in question were in arears for the $130 per year Association dues, some for the last two years. Simply amazing to me, during these tough times. I can see a lien, but a foreclosure?!?

 

[xp8103]

I find it hard to believe that foreclosure is the solution in this instance.

But then, I've heard of some pretty nasty "homeowners associations".

 

[PAGoldsby]

I'm sure that the soon-to-be-evicted homeowners were so thrilled several years ago to be "allowed" into such a nice neighborhood that they didn't really read the H.A. agreement. While I feel bad for any family losing its home, we should remember that there was probably nobody holding a gun to their heads to sign the agreement.

 

[SNOONE]

We have somewhat of the same problem, however in NY State we don't have the courts on our side to collect homeowners dues in arrears... Our community is 90 houses in a Lake community, all of the houses have been redone from only summer to all year round residences.. The only help we get is when a house is sold most of the banks and real estate companies will collect those arrears at closing...

Our yearly fees are $500 which cover, road repair, taxes, maintenance of our beach and clubhouse and snowplowing .. Foreclosure is extreme and absolutely not an option but it would be nice if we could put liens on houses for nonpayment... Most of the deadbeats have not paid for years... You would agree thats it's wholly unfair for the people that do pay to carry the homeowners that don't..

We can't very well not plow the road in front of the deadbeats homes on the common thru fare. When people don't pay we can't maintain the common community..

 

[hlothery]

Been a Homeowner's Association President twice in the past. I agree there are deadbeats who don't pay. What we did was put a lien on the property. Then, when they tried to sell, the lien search discovered our lien, and they had to pay up before they could close the sale. I cannot imagine forclosure on someone's house.

 

[Rinty]

Foreclosure is a draconian remedy for this kind of a situation. In my province, the HOA equivalents have a permanent charge (mortgage) registered against all the home titles. As part of the closing, the status of the charge is checked, adjusted, and any arrears are paid.

Perhaps a better way to deal with arrears is to just have interest rates and penalties that are high enough to be an incentive to pay, and to offset the loss of the diminished cash flow.

 

[535IS]

I'm sure that the soon-to-be-evicted homeowners were so thrilled several years ago to be "allowed" into such a nice neighborhood that they didn't really read the H.A. agreement. While I feel bad for any family losing its home, we should remember that there was probably nobody holding a gun to their heads to sign the agreement.

Do you have the slightest clue what the word 'compassion' means?

 

[SNOONE]

Do you have the slightest clue what the word 'compassion' means?

I think these people that you are speaking of in San Antonio are not strapped for the cash.. There is some other underlying reasons why they have not paid..

Things would never get to the point of lien or any other legal remedy if this had not been years and years of non payment.. I'm sure these people have clauses in their deeds saying that there is a homeowners association and that membership is mandatory with a fee schedule and services provided..

We would never deny services within our homeowners association for a member that has demonstrated financial hardship. Usually its not about financial hardship but about political in fighting within the community

 

[hlothery]

To further clarify. This is a subdivision of relatively new houses, in existence for only a few years. The article did mention that some homeowners were three years in arrears on their dues. I am not familiar, and therefore make no assumptions about the financial situations of the homeowners.......although this is not the most popular part of town. Any homeowners association has the right to collect dues to maintain the common areas, mine certainly does. But to foreclose........no, I'm not buying that!

 

[redclfco]

I'm sure that the soon-to-be-evicted homeowners were so thrilled several years ago to be "allowed" into such a nice neighborhood that they didn't really read the H.A. agreement. While I feel bad for any family losing its home, we should remember that there was probably nobody holding a gun to their heads to sign the agreement.

In My Humble Opinion


IF the closing agent was worth their salt, and IF the Realtor provided all the HOA agreement and information at closing, the agreement was not only signed, but gone through in detail. Another bigger IF. IF the HOA did the right thing upon move in, and gave a welcome basket and got to know the residents when they moved , and got them involved with the BOD and Association from the get go, the problem would not have been a suprise to the Homeowner. Now another IF IF the management company running the accounting had done their job and billed net 30, 60, 990 120 as provided by the by-laws of the community or IF the HOA BOD had not been so cheap as not do the billing on their own, then screwed it up, they might have got the money.

HOA are citizen government in action, but in saying this, whomever that is running the HOA had to do it right from the get go to avoid deliquencies in Homeowners Association dues.

In Snoone's case, get 75% of the community together, and change the community by laws to a more workable penality!

 

[osbornk]

Since the development is only a few years old, I suspect many of the homeowners are far behind on their mortgage and forclosure is coming on their first, second, third, etc. mortgages.

We're a little behind in our backwoods county. We didn't have a real estate boom with inflated real estate prices. As a result, we only had 46 foreclosures in the entire county last year. It was a normal year.

I have little compassion for people who buy what they cannot afford and expect others to take care of their problems. HOA fees are part of the mortgage payment to me and should be considered when affordability is considered.

I have owned five houses in my lifetime and I bought only what I could afford. To do this, I had to start with a dumpy fixer-upper and work my way up. Every house I have ever owned had would have rented for more than the house payment. After the first two houses, I had savings that would have paid off the mortgage if it would have been necessary. I admit to being cheap but I sleep well knowing there is no danger of foreclosure.

 

[hlothery]

Interesting that, as an avowed right-winger, I am the one feeling compassionate. Also interesting is the extent to which we jump to conclusions with no basis for said conclusions. Good lessons in that. I'm done.

 

[PAGoldsby]

Do you have the slightest clue what the word 'compassion' means?

Absolutely.

Do you have the slightest clue what the word "contract" means?

This is no different than the ARM mess. Tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of homeowners signed up for ARMs because the introductory rate was (literally) unrealistically low. However, when it came time for the ARM to adjust, they were, in the words of Casablanca's Captain Renault, "Shocked ... SHOCKED" to find that their mortgage payments were going up.

Contracts are serious business. They carry the weight of law here in our civilized world. It is the moral duty of both parties to the contract to honor all the terms. If one party can not maintain its obligation to the terms of the contract, then that party is subject to the remedies prescribed in the self-same contract. If the terms were not enforced, and the remedies not followed, then what good is the contract.

I will never live in a house where I am beholden to the covenants of a Homeowners' Association. I will not risk my home because I left ny garbage can out past noon on Tuesday, or because my begonias are wilting or any other ridiculous contractual terms.

If those affected by the OP's story wish to challenge the actions of the HA in a court of law, they most certainly have that opportunity. However, the case will go something like this in court:

Judge to Plaintiff: Is this your signature on the HA agreement?
Plaintiff: Yes.
Judge. Court finds for the defendant.

I am an extraordinarily compassionate person, I think. (And humble, too! ) However, it's the rare case when there's a clause in a legally-binding document for compassion to overrule the force of law with respect to execution of the terms of the contract.

Consider this: What about all the people in the HA who, faced with the exact same financial circumstances as the evicted, kept paying their HA dues? How is it "fair" to them to allow the scoff-laws to remain? Allow me to extend that to something more directly affiliated with our mutual presence here: Should BMWMOA member benefits be continued to those who do not pay their dues, out of "compassion?" What about compassion for those who own and maintain a legal business, such as a HA or BMWMOA? If their members quit paying, will the printers and phone company and other creditors merely forgive the obligation out of "compassion?"

Hardly.

I'm all for treating all people fairly and equally. However, if you enter into a contract, you are bound to the terms of that contract. If you don't like the terms or, more to the case at hand, the remedies in the event of default, then, for God's sake, DON'T SIGN THE CONTRACT!!!

 

[akbeemer]

I understand the tendency to assign fault to the people losing their homes; I imagine their own behavior contributed mightily to the situation. I too tend to have little pity for people who gamble, then want my help when the bet goes the wrong way. I look with a certain element of disdain at people who I know are of modest means, living in expensive homes, driving trophy cars and seemingly always headed to a vacation in the tropics. But the people who are deserving of compassion in a situation like this are the kids of the displaced families; they are the ones who need compassion and help. They had no role in making poor decisions. It will be interesting to see what happens to the scores of homes being vacated; are they resold or do they sit empty? I wonder how much the HOA is collecting in fees on them now. Who benefited by the HOAÔÇÖs actions?

 

[PAGoldsby]

<snip>

I wonder how much the HOA is collecting in fees on them now. Who benefited by the HOAÔÇÖs actions?

There can be no doubt that the HOA will make out like, well, bandits on this deal. The HOA agreements that I've seen are absurdly one-sided, with almost no rights or remedies afforded the homeowners.

I'm with you, AKBeemer. While the not-so-subtle intricacies of this situation are easily played out for adults, the kids only know that they used to live in a nice new house, and now they live in Grandma's back bedroom. That's the sad part.

 

[redclfco]

Respect in real life not in suppositions

As a residential and commercial landlord, I have the duty to be on the front line with my people who come to me with the information that they can't continue with their lease. Some due to job loss, some due to lack of business, but in EVERY case, the first response from me has an overriding tone of respect and compassion.

Interlaced in that respect and compassion is a very complete review of their responsibility under the terms and conditions of the lease. I end our face to face meeting (usually face to face) conversation with indicating that I, as the owners representative don't pretend to be in a position of telling them what to do, but I do clearly define the process that will happen after they leave, from the loss of deposit to the immediate collection procedures our company employs to collect the accelerated rent until the end of the lease period, up to legal actions.

People are having a tough time, but combination of treating with dignity and respect and very detailed discussion of obligations and remedies under the terms of the lease aka contract, in many cases, helps these folks make a decision to keep pushing ahead within the scope and boundaries of their lease.

Bad news does not have to include contempt and anger, and in fact can be destructive to the cause.

I remember somebody on line here said respect had to be earned. IMHO poppycock! Everyone deserves basic respect, and when given in the above described circumstance, often results in favorable results.

In a normal bank default, nobody bothers to touch base with these families heading for default using respect, in fact usually employ harassment. Regardless of outcome, if the families stay or they go, if respect and knowledge is employed with communication, a bad situation is made better.

If you think I don't know what I'm talking about, realize I have maintained 2-4 % vacancy in all my properties going on two years that I have been at the helm. I set in March with a 96% occupancy average and April and May forecasts slide me up to 97%...what a deal!

 

[535IS]

Do you have the slightest clue what the word "contract" means?

As a lawyer, I have about a year of formal training and a handful of state and federal bar admissions that indicate I do.

I am an extraordinarily compassionate person, I think.

I'm still looking for that here. The extraordinarily compassionate person would explore the possible favorable resolutions for this situation instead of essentially saying, "Tough. You signed a contract."

 

[mitchell0481]

arears for the $130 per year Association dues,

I wish our dues where that low!! We pay about 480 a month in Association fees! On a two bedroom condo.

 

[The_Veg]

There can be no doubt that the HOA will make out like, well, bandits on this deal. The HOA agreements that I've seen are absurdly one-sided, with almost no rights or remedies afforded the homeowners.

And in TX they do have the right to foreclose when dues are not paid.

As for compassion vs. contract, just because a person or company has the RIGHT to do something doesn't mean that they HAVE to do something. Every time I heard about it happening in the news when I lived in TX, the resident was always destitute due to job loss and the HOA was always unwilling to compromise (they tended to treat the resident like a tenant, as if they could just pack up and be gone with the simplicity of a business decision. The HOA people must have cut their teeth in the apartment biz). I recall one where the news story inspired compassionate feelings in enough viewers that anonymous donors chipped in and paid the dues.

I have never been able to afford owning my living space, and when I read about things like this I feel like less of a loser about it. If I ever do own a place, it will NOT be in a location with an HOA.

 

[535IS]

I wish our dues where that low!! We pay about 480 a month in Association fees! On a two bedroom condo.

That's more than my mortgage ...