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CA Finally Admits 'Lane-Splitting' Is NOT Legal
- Thread starter greenwald
- Start date
88bmwjeff
SF Bay Area
Doh!! typo!! thanks for catching that. It's been fixed.
or what
It seems there is a East coast/ West coast line of understanding & tolerance. The speed limits of the West have the same debates.
California and it's perpetual big city gridlock is a unique animal that unless you have tried it, don't knock it...I try to time my possibilities of jams out there...most the time I avoided the need to even think about splitting. I do not live there, but don't question the practice, especially there.
Now filtering to the front seems to be another facet and the norm in other civilized countries. I learned that practice real quick near Malibu and saw no foul...nor did the cagers
I have been on the roads in Cali and have seen many splitters...a lot on Hwy 1, even in the twisties coming alongside me to overtake my decent pace. After I made the mental adjustment that more mirror checks are needed, I wasn't that bothered. They were great rabbits saving me some LEO discussions they got to have
I have ridden on the shoulder in a few eastern states to exit a wreck scene and if stopped would have accepted the consequence. If it upsets you, sorry, but I will prob still go around you...be careful about that road rage
For me it's all about the prudent use...the only ones that get the press are the idiots who ruin the image for the rest of the population...sound familiar you "bikers"?
David13
New member
You're not fum New Yark, is yah?
You remind me of that character from Taxi Driver, "you lookin' at me? you lookin' at me?"
We don't cut in front of you. We cut alongside you, space you'se ain't usin' and disappear far on down the road.
You got some problem wit dat!?
dc
Oh yeah, I guess it's 'you talkin' to me, you talkin' to me'.
36654
New member
Just like a Matinee movie......from long before my birth
Greenwald is obviously the honorable missionary and the California lane splitters must be heathen cannibals in the deepest jungle. Therefore, we're that point in the story where the cooking pot is boiling with the missionary is dangling above.
How will he escape?
Greenwald is obviously the honorable missionary and the California lane splitters must be heathen cannibals in the deepest jungle. Therefore, we're that point in the story where the cooking pot is boiling with the missionary is dangling above.
How will he escape?
greenwald
New member
Cute!
Poorly veiled baiting, but cute. .You obviously don't know me, nor respect my previous profession. I don't 'escape' - I have always stood and fought if I believed the cause worthy.
But this was never a fight to begin with - controversial topics on the Forum often distill into personal digs like yours when members don't like what they read.
Lane-splitting has been tolerated for so long in CA it was accepted as an institutionalized practice, which by law, it never was - that may soon change, and what happens in CA is CA's business. However, this topic is now nation-wide, with 4 other states throwing in, so that 'news' was brought to the attention of the general membership.
That was the simple premise I advanced - the immaturity of how it got personal I left up to others.
Escape? Got the wrong guy. I'm right here. Type your best shot.
story
New member
Gentlemen Please
There's no need for personal attacks
If lane splitting does start to move into other states, then us cannibal heathens in Calif. need to try to convert our missionary brothers in the other 49 states.
Here is a good video on the subject. https://youtu.be/JNGD9AAIfFU
There's no need for personal attacks
If lane splitting does start to move into other states, then us cannibal heathens in Calif. need to try to convert our missionary brothers in the other 49 states.
Here is a good video on the subject. https://youtu.be/JNGD9AAIfFU
Oregon is a step closer. . .
http://www.oregonlive.com/commuting...rcycle_lane-splitti.html#incart_story_package
Voni
who didn't believe it was safe UNTIL I was stuck in California traffic myself!
http://www.oregonlive.com/commuting...rcycle_lane-splitti.html#incart_story_package
Voni
who didn't believe it was safe UNTIL I was stuck in California traffic myself!
36654
New member
Cute!
You obviously don't know me, nor respect my previous profession. I don't 'escape' - I have always stood and fought if I believed the cause worthy.
But this was never a fight to begin with - controversial topics on the Forum often distill into personal digs like yours when members don't like what they read.
Lane-splitting has been tolerated for so long in CA it was accepted as an institutionalized practice, which by law, it never was - that may soon change, and what happens in CA is CA's business. However, this topic is now nation-wide, with 4 other states throwing in, so that 'news' was brought to the attention of the general membership.
That was the simple premise I advanced - the immaturity of how it got personal I left up to others.
Escape? Got the wrong guy. I'm right here. Type your best shot.
Kevin,
I'm not baiting. The heathen's just seemed to be circling and circling...........
BTW - I'm in the group that assumes any attempt at lane splitting in my part of the country would likely result in road rage pandemonium by the folks in the cars...........
PGlaves
#13338
Certainly my bigggest concern should there be a new "splitting/sharing is OK" state is the attitude of the multitude of car drivers. I can't even imagine the educational campaign that would be required to reach even a fraction of motorists. The mentatlity that causes a driver to, for example, speed up as soon as you use a turn signal so as to block your attempt to change lanes would kick in with a vengeance if a motorcycle were to attempt to share a lane.
story
New member
Your absolutely correct.
I'm in what is considered rural Calif. where lane splitting is very uncommon. Motorist get a little rage going when it does happen.
My work takes me to the Bay Area on occasion where it is very common and accepted by motorist.
In many cases if they see you coming they will move over to give you more room. They don't want there mirrors clipped.
On another note.
While in the military I was stationed in Tx. The orientation/safety briefing for new arrivals included a briefing from a local motor officer.
He told of being run off the road by an old farmer in a PU. The farmer thought he was a 1%er
EvryDayRide
John
Hi Kevin,
First of all, I have watched your posts for a number of years and I think you are a very knowledgeable, courteous man with some good wisdom to pass along. You have often displayed a keen sense of humor. After starting the thread, I hope you still have it? Please, this is not an attack...
Earlier in the post, you made a comment about the "many LEO's, attorneys and lawmakers being in agreement on this issue". If I might ask, what are they agreeing on? Splitting traffic or not splitting traffic? Is there some good data that has been collected to substantiate one or the other and do you have a link to it?
As per the last ON magazine, it sounds like California is overhauling it's whole motorcycle safety and certification program? It will be interesting to see how lane splitting is addressed in the new curriculum?
When I took my motorcycle safety class 6 years ago, a number of instructors were retired CHP officers that I have worked with in the past. They felt you were safer splitting lanes as opposed to the risk of being smashed between 2 cars in stop and go traffic. They made it perfectly clear that a higher degree of skill was required before giving it a try. My low comfort level and skill make me pretty cautious. I split lanes only when the conditions are right for me. Otherwise, I am lined up with the rest of the cars hoping that guy behind me pays attention?
Thank you,
John
First of all, I have watched your posts for a number of years and I think you are a very knowledgeable, courteous man with some good wisdom to pass along. You have often displayed a keen sense of humor. After starting the thread, I hope you still have it? Please, this is not an attack...
Earlier in the post, you made a comment about the "many LEO's, attorneys and lawmakers being in agreement on this issue". If I might ask, what are they agreeing on? Splitting traffic or not splitting traffic? Is there some good data that has been collected to substantiate one or the other and do you have a link to it?
As per the last ON magazine, it sounds like California is overhauling it's whole motorcycle safety and certification program? It will be interesting to see how lane splitting is addressed in the new curriculum?
When I took my motorcycle safety class 6 years ago, a number of instructors were retired CHP officers that I have worked with in the past. They felt you were safer splitting lanes as opposed to the risk of being smashed between 2 cars in stop and go traffic. They made it perfectly clear that a higher degree of skill was required before giving it a try. My low comfort level and skill make me pretty cautious. I split lanes only when the conditions are right for me. Otherwise, I am lined up with the rest of the cars hoping that guy behind me pays attention?
Thank you,
John
greenwald
New member
Stand down to Def Con 3 John. My paranoia level is not so high that I view everything as 'an attack.' Still able to tell the difference. Sense of humor undamaged.
You ask good questions - I shall try to address them.
As for "..many LEO's, attorneys and lawmakers being in agreement on this issue....." this is a reference to representatives from all three disciplines in CA having weighed in, and conceding the need to take a practice that has been tolerated (albeit aggressively encouraged by the CHP) and move it from citable (illegal) to "permitted by statute" (legal under specific conditions of behavior). YES - there is momentum for lane-splitting to be legalized in CA, with 4 other states also floating their versions of bills to be considered this summer. Even WI is discussing the possibility, and wants those of us who sit on MOSAC to craft language of the changes to our traffic laws that would permit 'Cheeseheads' to have an option similar to lane-splitting, in stop-n-go traffic jams. I am working on a rough draft as we speak.
As for "...good data...." to support lane-splitting, the University of Berkley study was both helpful and contained objectivity regarding lane-splitting. Nine pages of data tends to support moving in that direction.
California did indeed overhaul how it certifies new motorcycle riders, and rightfully so. Most states have not seen any meaningful reduction in the last decade of motorcycle fatalities under the long-standing matrix of how it was taught, and Lee Parks does offer extensive experience and insight and (time will tell) perhaps - a superior product to the MSF. I still instruct under the framework offered by the MSF, and I think some real improvements have been made, particularly in range exercises and stressing the ABC's - Attitude, Behavior & Choices.
The current MSF curriculum, new nationwide for 2015, does NOT address lane-splitting, probably due to the fact that it has never been declared a legal maneuver, and has only existed as a common practice in one state (CA). I suspect that Lee Parks will include some training/advice on it in his fledgling course - at least, I hope so.
Lane-splitting is not some magical answer to any and all snarled traffic, and yet, is a 'proven survivability option' hard to ignore on California freeways and can relieve congestion. I do not judge those who practice it - it's an individual's call based on situational awareness and a "risk vs. benefit" assessment.
Like you, we should all ride within our personal comfort level (which, with advanced training, can be 'broadened' - Hint: take an advanced course at this summer's National Rally!) and make a safe trip to our destination the obvious goal.
Ride well and often!
Last edited:
rad
Retired from riding
The CHP insisted a number of specific topics be included in the Parks Program, lane splitting was one of them. The CHP clearly had a punch list of topics they felt needed to be taught, others are laws pulling a trailer, (55mph max like cars), also evading police, not a how to
The Parks program is awesome, and I taught MSF for 15 years and liked the MSF program. It is good for the motorcycle community to have a few other well respected programs in the country, Oregon and Idaho are two and we will see if Calif's new program is well respected in a few years.
Exactly, which statute?
"Agreement on this issue"? Ummm, that is entirely meaningless as a citation of legal authority in support of your assertion that lane-splitting is illegal in California.
You state that the "...practice..has been tolerated by the CHP and move it from citable (illegal) to 'permitted by statute' (legal under specific conditions of behavior)." I should point out that a fundamental rule of statutory construction and interpretation in this country is that--with the exception of enabling statutes granting powers to a government instrumentality--statutes prohibit, they do not grant. There is even a Latin phrase for it: Nullum crimen, nulla poena sine praevia lege poenali, which roughly means there is no crime and no punishment without a pre-existing law. In our jurisprudential system, what is not prohibited is permitted. It is not the other way around.
The California Highway Patrol does not "tolerate" lane-splitting. The very simple reason why the CHP doesn't cite riders is because there is no statute that prohibits lane-splitting, and there are no judicial decisions that I am aware of that have interpreted existing CA statutes as prohibiting lane-splitting. The kerfuffle the CHP found itself in when it published guidelines on its website about lane-splitting was an ill-advised effort to define what it felt were characteristics that could make the lane-splitting maneuver dangerous, such as high speed and excessive speed delta. To the extent that anyone cares, the CHP pulled down the guidelines because an administrative law judge determined that the guidelines' publication amounted to improper rulemaking. Yawn.
Finally, as for your statement that there is "momentum for lane-splitting to be legalized in CA", once again, you misapprehend the nuance of the legislative effort (though in all fairness, even the media are ass backward on this). If passed, AB 51 would define the boundaries of lane-splitting, the violation of which would be...wait for it...prohibited conduct. It does not legalize lane-splitting as so many armchair legal scholars seem to think. Rather, the bill merely recites that a motorcyclist can split lanes, which was already legal, but then goes on to prohibit lane-splitting if performed at excessive speeds. Ta da, a statute of prohibition, not of permission.
greenwald
New member
Under which California statute?
Unsafe lane changes (CVC Sec. 21658(a), Moving without signaling (CVC Sec. 22107), Violation of the prime facie speed limit (CVC Secs. 22348-22366), Violating of the basic speed law (CVC Sec. 22350), Reckless driving (CVC Sec. 23103).............. for starters.
As was stated numerous times, though the citation may not contain the words "Lane-Splitting" or "Filtering," the practice is citable, and needs a corresponding statute to support the maneuver. Hence, AB 51. Vote for it or against it - it's your state.
Not going to re-visit this anymore.
Believe or don't believe. 5 states seriously considering legalizing the practice. I'm not losing sleep over it - you shouldn't either. Off to go instruct another motorcycle class now this weekend.
I find being pro-active about motorcycle safety thru my duties to be more relaxing than "dog chasing its tail" debating here, where everyone from CA is apparently either an attorney or experienced in law enforcement.
No offense - just have better things to do today.
Ride well and often!
Exactly my point! (Which you STILL don't seem to understand).
It's NOT the lane splitting that is illegal or currently citeable, it is OTHER things that COULD also be done during lane splitting that could be judged by the officer to be unsafe and citeable (speeding, cutting off cars (unsafe lane change), just plain reckless driving).
BUT, if you are traveling straight, along the line between the #1 and #2 lanes, at a safe an prudent speed (not more than 10 mph above the slow moving (up to around 35 mph) , and not otherwise causing any one any grief, in California, it IS LEGAL (meaning it is not illegal) and approved.
You seem to be stuck to the definition that anything that is not SPECIFICALLY approved by statute is "not legal". Unfortunately, the universal understanding of the term " not legal" by the public is "illegal". That is why you are doing a disservice to the public by using the term "not legal". That is causing them to be misinformed, which has been my only objection all along.
Please reread ecaho's excellent explination.
If it required an affirmative statute before something was LEGAL, the wearing of HighVis gear or backing out of a driveway would be "NOT LEGAL", as I stated in a previous post. That would be very confusing.
Yes, it is "just semantics", but very critical semantics!
The statutes you cite do not prohibit lane-splitting. They prohibit, as the plain meaning of the statutes' titles clearly state, unsafe lane changing, signaling, speeding, and reckless driving. While these prohibited actions may be committed while splitting a lane, the statutes proscribing these actions do not prohibit the essential lane splitting maneuver. Lane-splitting good. Lane-splitting recklessly bad. A motorcyclist may be cited for reckless driving, but not simply and solely for splitting a lane. The practice is not illegal and is not "citable." I don't know how to explain this more clearly.
And, whoa, Hoss, you may have better things to do than debate the merits of your original post, but you kneecap your own position when you dismiss the very debate you started when you flatly declared in your thread title that "CA finally admits lane-splitting is not legal." Dog chasing its tail, indeed. Not going to visit this anymore? Frankly, I'm hard-pressed to understand why you started this debate in the first place. As for your comment that "everyone from CA is apparently an attorney," hey, I appreciate snark as well as anyone, but it doesn't really move the discussion along, does it. And for the record, though I am loathe to admit it, I am an attorney, which is why I feel it is important to steer this thread back to deeper waters.
Look, the reason I'm coming down so hard here is because your misstatement of California law--like so much other misinformation out there--reinforces the wrong-headed belief of many CA drivers that lane splitting is illegal and that creaming a splitting biker is therefore justified. California motorcyclists (and the CA DMV, CHP, and CalTrans) have a hard enough time educating cagers about this misconception, and it doesn't help our efforts out here when a motorcyclist who lives in another state 2000 miles away contributes to this misconception. On a motorcycle forum no less. You say it's illegal to split lanes in California, and the next thing I know some self-centered jerk opens his door to clobber me.
