BMW In MotoGP

[Sully1000XR]

Just got back from the Moto GP in Indianapolis with my son and it was a great race. Congratulations to Marquez on the win. With my favorite rider, Rossi, also got podium.

Simple question, why hasn't BMW joined the Moto GP ranks yet? With KTM coming online next year do you think it's a possibility soon? I would love to see a good rider on a factory BMW machine at each Moto GP. That would be exciting!

 

[bc1100s]

BMW participated for a number of years in World Superbike. Never won a championship. Spent a lot of dough. Withdrew a couple of years ago.

BMW provided engines to a MotoGP CRT class team which, to my mind, was a waste of time and money if they weren't going to transition to a full factory team. Perhaps their plans changed when they saw what they were up against.

KTM may come online next year but they'll be grid-fillers.

Glad you had a great time at the race. The folks at Indy do an excellent job and, with the changes made to the track last year with re-paving and corner adjustment, its also an excellent layout.

And finally, PLEASE, if you're going to post results of a race, include the word SPOILER in the title. Thanks!

 

[mika]

Simple question, why hasn't BMW joined the Moto GP ranks yet? With KTM coming online next year do you think it's a possibility soon? I would love to see a good rider on a factory BMW machine at each Moto GP. That would be exciting!

The question is simple, but the answer is not. It has at least two parts that have not been mentioned yet.

Until MotoGP decides what the next engine formula will be for the premier class BMW would be playing major catch up that would have little value to their on street sales.


The Claiming Race Team “CRT” effort was made at the urging of MotoGP and as an engine supplier to the likes of Sueter Racing. BMW supplied a one liter engine. While it could not be just a WSBK engine it did allow for RD which in the future could and would be transferred to the S line. Was it a waste of money and time? Maybe, maybe not. I can not tell you the value of the mechanical design of the heads and their impact on future BMWs or that of the various electronic engine management systems and those that integrate chassis and engine management.


The drop from WSBK as a full factory racing team had more to do with where the WSBK class was heading with rules. I love WSBK but frankly BMW has had a bigger sales impact in the EU with various national racing support programs than with the dollar spent in WSBK. Keep in mind over 70 percent of BMW’s sales are in the Ireland, UK, and the continent. I wish they would support MotoAmerica efforts more. Which works as a segway for what I see as a second part to answer your question.


KTM has a very different ownership and world footprint for those owners since 2007 than BMW. Bajaj, the India manufacturer acquired roughly 12 percent of KTM that year and increased it to 47 percent. This helped with KTM’s entrance to the Indian market and Bajaj’s entrance into the EU. Both were helped in various technical/design manners. The combined companies sell motorcycles with both brand names in markets that are rabid MotoGP fans. KTM ducked WSBK and CRT, road raced bikes at various national levels and built up the racing team management experience while developing the MotoGP engine. They can be back markers, target beating all the independents while chasing Ducati, and sell a bunch of bikes in the India/Asia markets in the process.

Suzuki is back in MotoGP. KTM is on the way. There is talk of a big green Kawasaki team possibly in the works. Until the alliance with TVS changes BMW’s world footprint and sales I don’t see them on the track racing. Right now they get enough, bang for the buck from supplying safety vehicles and providing various marketing support relations with MotoGP.

 

[mika]

Don't confuse passion with vanity. I believe BMW has plenty of passion for racing, it just does not show a great deal of it in the US and in MotoGP. BMW delegates team management and efforts to national levels. BMW Italy has taken over the WSBK effort, France the FIM Endurance Racing etc. Racing engine development continues to take place at the F1 shop in Munich by the factory. There are other FIM and internal racing and racing type efforts supported by BMW. I think there is plenty of passion for racing in BMW.

The willingness - vanity -to participate in things like MotoGP began to evaporate when BMW bowed out of F1. The core problem at the premier level is the governing body rules and the politics behind their formulation.

Accountants may not race on Sunday but they do pay the bills on Monday. If you can't do that, you don't go racing the next Sunday. Lord knows I love and I want to see BMW doing it. I just don't think MotoGP is in the cards. Changes in the distribution of Quan family stock may open the window, but even then it would be down the road.

 

[greenwald]

Don't confuse passion with vanity. I believe BMW has plenty of passion for racing, it just does not show a great deal of it in the US and in MotoGP. BMW delegates team management and efforts to national levels. BMW Italy has taken over the WSBK effort, France the FIM Endurance Racing etc. Racing engine development continues to take place at the F1 shop in Munich by the factory. There are other FIM and internal racing and racing type efforts supported by BMW. I think there is plenty of passion for racing in BMW.

The willingness - vanity -to participate in things like MotoGP began to evaporate when BMW bowed out of F1. The core problem at the premier level is the governing body rules and the politics behind their formulation.

Accountants may not race on Sunday but they do pay the bills on Monday. If you can't do that, you don't go racing the next Sunday. Lord knows I love and I want to see BMW doing it. I just don't think MotoGP is in the cards. Changes in the distribution of Quan family stock may open the window, but even then it would be down the road.

Disappointingly informative and accurate - as always.

Believe or not, that was a compliment. Your posts are extremely well-researched and help the rest of us keep a finger on the pulse of the motor sports world.

I too wish BMW had a bigger 'presence' in MotoGP, but apparently not in the cards.

 

[lkchris]

The pressure for BMW to return to Formula One is greater than the pressure to enter MotoGP.

BMW is doing quite nicely in DTM, which is a pretty big deal.

Not certain that any motorcycle racing success sells BMW cars.

 

[mika]

The pressure for BMW to return to Formula One is greater than the pressure to enter MotoGP.

BMW is doing quite nicely in DTM, which is a pretty big deal.

Not certain that any motorcycle racing success sells BMW cars.

DTM is doing great and huge for them. I hope they duck F1 and develop a car for WEC. I have long thought that series and related ones are better choices than F1.

Of the three Moto classes in the MotoGP circus, frankly I would like to see them in Moto3.

 

[jamesevans]

DTM is doing great and huge for them. I hope they duck F1 and develop a car for WEC. I have long thought that series and related ones are better choices than F1.

Of the three Moto classes in the MotoGP circus, frankly I would like to see them in Moto3.

I have to agree. Moto3 offers way the best racing of all three classes, even if it doesn't have Valentino!

 

[dunc723]

I also just got back from Indy - several great races, especially (IMO) Moto2, with constant position changes among the front 5.

What baffles me is why BMW puts up significant sponsorship money for MotoGP, including television adverts on Fox1, without participating.

Revzilla had a good article on their website just before Indy, one of the points talking about teams struggling to keep enough sponsorship money. http://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/indy-motogp-preview

I'm curious - any readers have any idea what it costs just to put a two-bike team on the circuit for the year (not be competitive, just enter two bikes)?

 

[mika]

USA Today had an article that goes to your cost of participation question.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/08/10/why-these-motogp-bikes-cost-2-million/31376337/

The money/reward equation as a series sponsor and supporter is easier to value than racing. Beyond the sponsor participation this and other things has kept a chair open at the FIM rules table. This was very important in getting BMW into WSBK. So far, while others at the table have, BMW has not seen MotoGP having any benefit beyond vanity thus has not participated.

I have trouble disagreeing with that conclusion. That said I hope someone is making the case for Moto3. The R&D could be rolled out into other motorcycle models. A Moto3 campaign over several seasons would go a long way to building the data for chassis design and track setup/engine requirements should they move up to the premier class.

 

[dunc723]

USA Today had an article that goes to your cost of participation question.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/08/10/why-these-motogp-bikes-cost-2-million/31376337/

The USA Today article stated $2 million for the bike (1 bike I assume?), presumably for the season - all the parts for all the races. Each rider has two bikes, making it $4 million. Then there's the rider and crew salaries, transportation to 18 races, etc.; I bet that's another $2 million. Nearly double it again for two riders. $12 million for a two-bike team? I'm probably low and I'm probably missing a lot of the cost - round up to $15 or $20 million. Top teams may spend more, but offset it with winnings and merchandise (like the $80 VR46 shirt I bought at Indy - but it's a great shirt). Expensive hobby for most team owners, methinks.