BMW dealer maintenance issue

[pglaves]

But this guy was on a trip. It wasn't his home dealer.

Yes - he was hauling a set of tires. I'm sure he had a plan as to where/when they would be mounted, but the plan got upset when he had the puncture. I too would feel abused in his circumstance. And I don't buy the insurance issue either. But it got worked out. He now seems inclined to get a Harley and if that suits his riding taste instead of his GS, so be it. But he will be disappointed if he really believes very many HD shops are open 7 days a week.

 

[ponch1]

Yes - he was hauling a set of tires. I'm sure he had a plan as to where/when they would be mounted, but the plan got upset when he had the puncture. I too would feel abused in his circumstance. And I don't buy the insurance issue either. But it got worked out. He now seems inclined to get a Harley and if that suits his riding taste instead of his GS, so be it. But he will be disappointed if he really believes very many HD shops are open 7 days a week.

It does vary a lot Paul, both operating hours and policies, but in general and I say this from hearing from friends that ride them, it seems that HD really goes the extra mile for their customers. I've also heard the same with some BMW dealers too. Just not as often. HD has their own business model and it seems to work for them. To me, all money is green and if I can do it, why not? You only get one change to make a first good impression.

 

[Paladinwest]

A couple of years ago I was on a ride with two guys from Colorado, we were all riding GSA's. One of the guys was carrying a spare rear tire because he wanted to get the most out of the tire he had on but knew that it wouldn't last the whole trip. After riding through Glacier park and then heading north we noticed that the tire was getting pretty thin and decided to head for Blackfoot BMW in Calgary, Alberta. We arrived after closing time and were looking for the opening hours when the sales manager came out to head home. He told us to come back at 9 am when they opened and said that they would do it first thing. The next morning the service manager got the bike in immediately and changed the tire. He also noticed that the original dealer had installed the handlebars incorrectly and fixed that as well. Then he came out to talk with us and pointed out that the bars were incorrect on the other bike from Colorado (same dealer) and fixed them as well. We were back on the road by 10 am.
As a contrast, the same year I was returning from a trip and was just south of Bellingham, WA when I stopped for a guy on the side of the road. The drive belt had broken on his Harley and he just happened to be in an area where he couldn't get cell service. He asked if I could phone a tow truck for him. I drove about ten miles to the next gas station and started to phone towing companies. After four tries, all too busy to come for at least 4 - 6 hours I phoned the Harley dealer in Bellingham. He told me how busy they were and how hard it was to change the belt and that he didn't know when he would be able to get it fixed. I explained that I was just making a phone call to help a fellow biker stranded on the side of the road and the primary concern was getting him picked up, maybe they could send a truck or a towing company that they used. He said they were busy and couldn't promise anything. I rode back to the guy on the side of the road, 20 miles this time because I had to go past him to the next exit to turn around. When I got there and gave him the bad news he said it was no problem because he had walked back along the freeway until his cell started to work and had managed to talk to the Harley dealer 40 or 50 miles south. They were sending a truck to pick him up.

Long story short, If you are going to make your ownership and purchasing decisions based on one experience with one dealer you are going to seriously limit your vehicle (and other) purchasing choices, maybe to zero choice.

 

[146023]

I have had tire shops shoo me away with mag rims back in the day. On the bikes it is 50/50 as to bringing in tires and not model dependent at all.
Didn't make me change brands over it...but we all have our limits I suppose.
I wonder how they balanced your rear wheel at the H-D shop with that big ol' hole

DYNA BEADS. I carry them with me when I travel with extra tires. Better safe than sorry.

 

[bigjohn72]

we are about 50/50 on whether or not a shop will mount a tire that is not bought through them. However all the ones that I have found that will mount your tire charge roughly $35-$40 for each tire, which almost negates the $$$ you may have saved by buying them on the internet or other source. Also they will not mount a used tire, they will only mount new ones, that have all the paint marks, or other signs of a new tire. So I have my own stuff to do tire changes. Learning to do it yourself will save much headache from my own experience. I did have one shop that unfortuneately changed ownership a year ago. They would price match and save you money, but I doubt he was making much of anything on it, other than just being a good shop. He had that shop for 25 years and decided to retire.

I would say it is a good idea to know how to change your own tires in a crap tastic situation, but as for just changing them when its time, your choice and your $$$. It is nice to have a warranty backed by your shop though if they do that.

 

[1074]

Customer provided parts/tires

Yes, the insurance thing is BS. And we all agree that it all depends on the dealer and their policy. I'd like to think that ANY dealer/independent shop that was worth anything, would do whatever is necessary to help a down rider continue their trip!
But please look at it from the dealer/shop side of the counter. Part of every business model is the allocation of income to make expenses and stay open. Unless you're a volume tire dealer there is no way that you can compete with internet prices. On some tires an internet price will beat my cost from the distributor. So my business model is such that my tire sales exist only as a convenience to my customers. I can't compete so I choose not to. I charge the same amount to mount and balance any tire and include wheel bearing inspection and rear drive spline lube when applicable. And if you choose to get your tires from the internet, then that's just fine with me. Of course, if you have a problem with your internet tire, you're on your own. One customer had to send back two tires before getting one that was not out of round and would balance. I can call my distributor and have a replacement, usually by the next day and at least within a couple of days.
On the other hand, It does bother me when a customer brings in his own parts. My business model calls for the profit from these parts to pay for parts of my business expenses. I do not run a "hobby shop" garage!
Sometimes, a customer will buy parts on line that they think they're getting a deal on, only to find out that the cost for shipping far outweighs any perceived savings. Sometimes, the customer buys the wrong part! And sometimes, the customer buys a part (possibly aftermarket or BMW factory reject) that either doesn't fit correctly or breaks or wears out before it should. Can you expect me to warranty these?

 

[osbornk]

Yes, the insurance thing is BS. And we all agree that it all depends on the dealer and their policy. I'd like to think that ANY dealer/independent shop that was worth anything, would do whatever is necessary to help a down rider continue their trip!
But please look at it from the dealer/shop side of the counter. Part of every business model is the allocation of income to make expenses and stay open. Unless you're a volume tire dealer there is no way that you can compete with internet prices. On some tires an internet price will beat my cost from the distributor. So my business model is such that my tire sales exist only as a convenience to my customers. I can't compete so I choose not to. I charge the same amount to mount and balance any tire and include wheel bearing inspection and rear drive spline lube when applicable. And if you choose to get your tires from the internet, then that's just fine with me. Of course, if you have a problem with your internet tire, you're on your own. One customer had to send back two tires before getting one that was not out of round and would balance. I can call my distributor and have a replacement, usually by the next day and at least within a couple of days.
On the other hand, It does bother me when a customer brings in his own parts. My business model calls for the profit from these parts to pay for parts of my business expenses. I do not run a "hobby shop" garage!
Sometimes, a customer will buy parts on line that they think they're getting a deal on, only to find out that the cost for shipping far outweighs any perceived savings. Sometimes, the customer buys the wrong part! And sometimes, the customer buys a part (possibly aftermarket or BMW factory reject) that either doesn't fit correctly or breaks or wears out before it should. Can you expect me to warranty these?

My brother has a body shop and people want him to install customer supplied aftermarket parts frequently. Aftermarket body parts are much worse than aftermarket mechanical parts because the fit and quality varies far more. He will install them but he adjusts his labor and paint prices to account for the additional work needed to make them work and to offset the loss of profit he makes on parts he supplies. The parts supplied by the owner might sometimes save them some money but frequently, the customer ends up paying more for the repair. The parts are also frequently so wrong that they won't fit at all and the customer ends up paying money for parts that can't be used.

 

[t6pilot]

I have bought all my tires from my dealer, Long Beach BMW, they have pretty much, matched Internet prices. Add one hour labor charge for mounting and balance and price is still reasonable
Several friends bring their internet purchased tires in for mounting, never has been a issue. I have been to a couple of dealers that display signs, if the tire wasn't purchased here we won't mount it, it's their shop they can do what they want.

 

[DARKCLOUD]

Try this

On 03-17-15 I was traveling in south Florida on a 2013 BMW GSA. I somehow picked up a screw in the rear tire. I repaired the tire temporarily with a plug and then looked in my Anonymous Book for a local dealer. I had a set of New Metzler Tourance's with me on this trip. I telephoned HAP'S Cycle Sales, 2530 17th St., Sarasota, Fl and requested an appointment to mount and balance a rear tire. I was advised by the Service Manager that they do not mount tires that are not purchased at their dealership due to their insurance carrier. I have NEVER run into this before in 50 years of motorcycle riding. Subsequently I contacted a local Harley Davidson dealer, regarding my problem and they advised to bring it in and they would take care of the mounting and balancing. This is one BMW rider going back to Harley. Shops are open 7 days a week and REALLY want to help a rider.

Ask to see their insurance policy. Why would an insurance company allow the dealership to mount any tires the dealership bought from any supplier, but not tires you bought? The insurance company would charge a premium for every tire mounted. The insurance company is in business to make money. Does the dealership pay a monthly rate on tires mounted or per tire?

Then some dealers charge for a new valve stem for each new tire installed. You have a new tire installed with a valve stem take a vacation and three weeks later you are back in the dealership to have the tire replaced and they want to replace the valve stem because their insurance company requires it.

Kinda makes you wonder why when a dealership sells and mounts a tire why they don't record the serial number and date of manufacture on the bill of sale.

Then when you get an oil change why don't they give you the partial container of oil that wasn't used? Oilheads use a quart and little out of the second quart to change the oil on the transmission. Where is the rest of my oil? That oil is pretty expensive. The answer you get is that it all went into the transmission and final drive.

So why not buy used bikes off the internet and tba to service them with?

A Bitter Old Man

 

[rangerreece]

It does vary a lot Paul, both operating hours and policies, but in general and I say this from hearing from friends that ride them, it seems that HD really goes the extra mile for their customers. I've also heard the same with some BMW dealers too. Just not as often. HD has their own business model and it seems to work for them. To me, all money is green and if I can do it, why not? You only get one change to make a first good impression.

Interesting discussion. Courtney Is the owner of adventure motor sports (formerly Pensacola BMW). He also owns the harley shop accross the street. He puts out the same good service at both shops. I wonder if he smiles when customers (from both shops) start in on the bashing?

For the record, full disclaimer, my dad just bought a 2015 harley so HD is family. I think every dealer is different. About 99% of the guys I work with are HD guys, I haven't heard one say a good thing about the dealership in Dothan, AL. The first BMW dealership I ever stepped foot in was Bogarts in Birmingham, (defunct now) I was there to buy a riding jacket on my way north to the chicken rally, let's just say, I didn't get a jacket, and it was a long time before I stepped foot in a dealership again.

 

[36654]

I have bought all my tires from my dealer, Long Beach BMW, they have pretty much, matched Internet prices. Add one hour labor charge for mounting and balance and price is still reasonable
Several friends bring their internet purchased tires in for mounting, never has been a issue. I have been to a couple of dealers that display signs, if the tire wasn't purchased here we won't mount it, it's their shop they can do what they want.

I'm going to add another layer of complaint to this thread and question the "one hour of labor charge" which isn't uncommon. Way back and in that far distant land called my teenage years of the late 1970's, I worked as a part-time flunky in a local car garage to pay tuition. I pumped gas, changed tires, did oil changes, lights & bulbs, simple brake jobs and the grunt work of 6-month state inspections (collecting the information for the licensed inspector fill-out the official ledger). In any case, I was paid minimum wage, which allowed the real mechanic to concentrate on the more complex and costlier repair work. Operating in this manner, our garage could after similar pricing to the muffler/brake and quickie lube franchises that were appearing at the time, while still retaining the capability to handle a broad range of repairs.

So, when I see a car or M/C garage charging the same labor rate for a low vs high skill job, I'm really suspicious that the low skill jobs have just become high profit opportunities for the shops. Of course, if Gunther, the BMW certified mechanic, is changing my tire and being paid a rate appropriate for his training, I understand. However, at that point, I would ask why all that training is being wasted on a low skill level task?

 

[osbornk]

Ask to see their insurance policy. Why would an insurance company allow the dealership to mount any tires the dealership bought from any supplier, but not tires you bought? The insurance company would charge a premium for every tire mounted. The insurance company is in business to make money. Does the dealership pay a monthly rate on tires mounted or per tire?

I worked in insurance claims for 31+ years and my company insured a lot of car dealerships, garages and body shops. I read a lot of policies and never saw anything in any of them regarding where the parts they used came from. It is very difficult to deny coverage and have it stick. Bad faith denials can be very expensive. Insurance policies are policies of adhesion and anything that might be in question or misunderstood is interpreted to benefit the person that bought the insurance.

 

[AntonLargiader]

So, when I see a car or M/C garage charging the same labor rate for a low vs high skill job...

As a shop owner I'm aware of that seeming incongruity, but in real life the difference isn't that great. The mechanic's pay is a small part of the shop's overhead, and the overhead drives the shop's hourly rate. Say I have a $75/hr shop rate, the tire changer gets paid $10 and the skilled tech makes $20 or $25. Scaling the hourly rate to reflect the wage difference would look something like $80/hr vs. $70/hr, not $75 vs $10. The tire changing guy still uses the parts washer, has his work covered by insurance, generates admin work, uses light and compressed air, wears a uniform, uses depreciating equipment, needs precious floor space and lift, etc.

 

[weschmann]

As a shop owner I'm aware of that seeming incongruity, but in real life the difference isn't that great. The mechanic's pay is a small part of the shop's overhead, and the overhead drives the shop's hourly rate. Say I have a $75/hr shop rate, the tire changer gets paid $10 and the skilled tech makes $20 or $25. Scaling the hourly rate to reflect the wage difference would look something like $80/hr vs. $70/hr, not $75 vs $10. The tire changing guy still uses the parts washer, has his work covered by insurance, generates admin work, uses light and compressed air, wears a uniform, uses depreciating equipment, needs precious floor space and lift, etc.

Well Stated! Labor is only a portion of overhead, but is the only thing the customer usually relates to.

 

[ragtoplvr]

I change a lot of tires and have sent most H-D's and a few G'Wings elsewhere ( close by) for several reasons. Hope someone doesn't put my name on the internet as non H-D friendly I rode them and make choices now. If they bring me a wheel , I will typically change it for them.

Most shops in TX are not open 7 days a week either, regardless of brand. Typically Tues-Sat. I have rescued many folks on a Sunday or Monday when they cannot get any help elsewhere.

As far as an "emergency" or in distress...he had plugged it and was rolling...his choice to have it done immediately...I know, another topic all together.

Having done it, changing the tire on a HD without a drop out equipped lift is quite a bit of work. Harley used to have hinged rear fenders. I appreciate my beemer more every day.

 

[akbeemer]

So, when I see a car or M/C garage charging the same labor rate for a low vs high skill job, I'm really suspicious that the low skill jobs have just become high profit opportunities for the shops. Of course, if Gunther, the BMW certified mechanic, is changing my tire and being paid a rate appropriate for his training, I understand. However, at that point, I would ask why all that training is being wasted on a low skill level task?

Guess that's why it is referred to as a "shop" rate and not a technician rate.

It should make people think twice about taking a bike in for a low skill level job. When I was still having most of my basic maintenance done at a dealer I would prep the bike as much as possible. Doing things like removing fairing parts, crash bars, belly plates and aftermarket dodads that take time to fiddle with saves money, and I think generates a little good will. And don't forget, that low skilled, low paid kid that is changing tires can still do a great deal of damage to a wheel, rotor or some other expensive part that the dealer is going to have to replace.

 

[chiba]

I was advised by the Service Manager that they do not mount tires that are not purchased at their dealership due to their insurance carrier. I have NEVER run into this before in 50 years of motorcycle riding.

As others have said, this is often dealer discretion, but it may also be true that their insurance doesn't allow installation of tires purchased from third parties. Think about it - have you ever met a motorcycle rider you couldn't trust? A dealership has probably encountered many more times the number of untrustworthy people than any one individual has.

This is one BMW rider going back to Harley. Shops are open 7 days a week and REALLY want to help a rider.

There's two HD shops within about 15 miles of my home. Neither is open on Sunday and one of them is closed on Monday, too.

Turning your back on entire brand because of your experience with one shop (and not even your home shop at that) seems a little short sighted, but it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round. Enjoy your Harley.

Ask to see their insurance policy.

Good luck with that request. I would guess that even at the level of a small company, that info rates as NUNYA.

 

[lkchris]

So, when I see a car or M/C garage charging the same labor rate for a low vs high skill job, I'm really suspicious that the low skill jobs have just become high profit opportunities for the shops. Of course, if Gunther, the BMW certified mechanic, is changing my tire and being paid a rate appropriate for his training, I understand. However, at that point, I would ask why all that training is being wasted on a low skill level task?

Well, these days a tire change is a higher-skill job than it used to be.

I'm taking my tire business exclusively to my BMW dealer as it will have experience working around the TPMS sensors and will know that if they break it they'll be replacing it. And the parts to replace them will be on hand.

But, I do carry a T50 wrench in my tank bag on the expectation that some Honda shop in a little town won't have one if I need them to fix a rear tire.

My dealer will mount tires I bring in, but those that won't simply foul their own nest if they enforce that policy with their regular customers. Somebody they've never seen before ... has no entitlement to anything. Customers are first priority and somebody for the first time just wanting tire change work isn't much of a customer--it's not a tire shop.

To think any of this has anything to do with "insurance" is silly. Or that it's BMW dealer exclusive.

Those that avoid their dealer cut off their nose to spite their face. Motorcycling on a shoestring budget is unrealistic at the BMW level. And, life is a self-fulfilling prophecy, and disrespecting dealer technicians will get you what you deserve.

The original poster fixated on the notion the tire he was carrying was going to be his next tire. Turns out it was going to be his second next tire--should be an easy thing to get over. B*tch sessions on forums are boring.

 

[36654]

And don't forget, that low skilled, low paid kid that is changing tires can still do a great deal of damage to a wheel, rotor or some other expensive part that the dealer is going to have to replace.

So, you go to your surgeon when you have a head cold?

These are just mechanical assemblies and kids, like I were, can handle the work, earn some money and gain some experience. It's all good.