mikegalbicka
Back in the saddle again
And my only point to both of you is if you didn't break the law you wouldn't have to work the system and play the games. That would free up the courts and save a ton of time and money. Over and out.
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Best defense for getting ticketed at 85 in a 65 mph zone in Connecticut today
- Thread starter tonysuburb
- Start date
classicvw
Active member
Yeah but if everyone obeyed the law just think about how many people would be out of a job and how much more you'd be paying in taxes to make up for all that lost revenue.
greenwald
New member
You're so spot on.
But once individuals have decided to break laws, and exchange accepting blame for 'legal loopholes,' no amount of discussion will sway them from a path they chose.
Jerry is right when he points out that our legal system permits slick maneuvering to avoid personal responsibility. We will never 'right the ship' by appealing to legislators or the bar - that train left the station a long time ago.
Only when individual riders hold themselves solely at fault for violations, and accept the consequences, will riding become safer and our overall image improve.
I see no difference between the cocky sportbike doing a wheelie down the highway, and the arrogant BMW rider blowing past me on the interstate at 20+ mph over the limit, and neither does the non-riding public. Neither rider has respect for the law.
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ricochetrider
Out There Somewhere
Hmmm. reading this thread, I see 4 or 5 pages of "right and wrong" all sorts of talk about "morality", & "evil", along with talk about the problems of society today, and how immoral and horribly wrong everyone who BREAKS THE SPEED LIMIT is, or how all the above applies to somebody who legally works the justice system for what it is. Hell somehow this thread even got into guys turning in their former friends to the Law for tax evasion- and this seems to have been acknowledged as somehow totally acceptable while driving 55 in a 70 is deemed pure evil.
I dunno guys, but last time I checked, doing 70 in a 55 wasn't all that morally corrupt, isn't a felony, or any sort of sin, according to The Bible. I honestly think y'all are making too big a deal over this thing, and I didn't notice specifically, but my guess is that the Original Poster ran far far away when he saw the sh*t storm of self righteousness he unleashed with his (seemingly) simple question.
People are just human, and a motorcycle is made to ride. The justice system is warped, twisted, and all screwed up in so many ways its unbelievable, in fact I once knew of a guy who STABBED somebody to death and slashed the daylights out of three other guys... and walked with zero jail time and 10 years probation. A judge just recently gave some swimmer frat boy puke a mere slap on the wrist for RAPING a college coed behind a dumpster. So MAYBE somebody successfully fighting a SPEEDING TICKET isn't really all that bad in the grand scheme of "right and wrong"?
Hopefully, none of you who has deemed the OP or Mr Dockery socially and legally corrupt, and morally reprehensible EVER broke not only the speed limit, but ANY other law, so help you God.
I suggest everyone back this WAY out, look at the big picture, go take a big fat dump, have a beer, cuppa coffee, or whatever.....
and get back to reality.
Just my opinion, your mileage clearly does vary.
I dunno guys, but last time I checked, doing 70 in a 55 wasn't all that morally corrupt, isn't a felony, or any sort of sin, according to The Bible. I honestly think y'all are making too big a deal over this thing, and I didn't notice specifically, but my guess is that the Original Poster ran far far away when he saw the sh*t storm of self righteousness he unleashed with his (seemingly) simple question.
People are just human, and a motorcycle is made to ride. The justice system is warped, twisted, and all screwed up in so many ways its unbelievable, in fact I once knew of a guy who STABBED somebody to death and slashed the daylights out of three other guys... and walked with zero jail time and 10 years probation. A judge just recently gave some swimmer frat boy puke a mere slap on the wrist for RAPING a college coed behind a dumpster. So MAYBE somebody successfully fighting a SPEEDING TICKET isn't really all that bad in the grand scheme of "right and wrong"?
Hopefully, none of you who has deemed the OP or Mr Dockery socially and legally corrupt, and morally reprehensible EVER broke not only the speed limit, but ANY other law, so help you God.
I suggest everyone back this WAY out, look at the big picture, go take a big fat dump, have a beer, cuppa coffee, or whatever.....
and get back to reality.
Just my opinion, your mileage clearly does vary.
pglaves
#13338
Prima facia reckless driving in some states.
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JDOCKERY132445
OldBMWMaster
If convicted
Yes it is. Most officers will reduce the speed so they do not have to deal with it though. And of course you STILL have to be convicted. Most officers are just doing their job and I do not make it difficult for them. Once they have done their job, my attorney does his. Is this system so hard to understand? I wonder how many tickets I will receive on my trip from NC to Laguna Seca for the 100 year celebration of BMW?
Ride fast...ride safely.
Yes it is. Most officers will reduce the speed so they do not have to deal with it though. And of course you STILL have to be convicted. Most officers are just doing their job and I do not make it difficult for them. Once they have done their job, my attorney does his. Is this system so hard to understand? I wonder how many tickets I will receive on my trip from NC to Laguna Seca for the 100 year celebration of BMW?
Ride fast...ride safely.
greenwald
New member
No kidding.
Get stopped and cited for 20 or more over in, for example, Virginia, and you're hauled away in cuffs - it's a misdemeanor in their state!
No longer coddling excessive speeders who feel the use of the same highways we share with family members and other innocents is their 'privilege,' cracking down on those 'boys with their toys' is trending in many states.
Overhead highway signs and billboards encouraging motorists to report reckless operation are everywhere.
About time.
So much for Virginia being for lovers
Not hauled away unless their are other issues, typically a ticket and on your way...its the notation of RD on the citation that will get your attention when you try to pay.
No personal experience in Virginia...and most other states, just doing some light reading this evening. It is as serious as a DUI however...
And as much of a State revenue generator as a deterrent according to quoted officials.
Since we avoid the big roads, never saw a need to get on down the road at a crazy pace east of the Mississippi. Now across the west, where it's not a sin to go over 60 , enjoy the space.
Being able to ride at a good clip on most our local roads in the 65-75 legal posted speeds that recently were 55 are plenty to enjoy the ride and the capabilities of these two wheeled engineering projects. And if we choose,we can grip and rip and deal with it if we get noticed.
Now across the border to our north in New Brunswick,we saw the Canadian Trooper haul away the vehicle as the 20 something young lady was coming to grips with hefty fine, no car and needing a ride from the store . A two up Goldwing we had been crossing paths with blew us off the road just minutes before that
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akbeemer
SURVIVOR
For those of us that live in areas where the interstates are posted at 80 MPH and most of the highways are posted at 70 MPH, it is hard to constrain our enthusiasm when riding in the more regulated areas of the country. In Canada, we are always particularly careful to stay near the speed limit... their country... their rules.
I can't imagine getting cited 25 times, as mentioned earlier. Speaks to the tight regulation in the poster's home area and perhaps his inability to avoid detection.
I can't imagine getting cited 25 times, as mentioned earlier. Speaks to the tight regulation in the poster's home area and perhaps his inability to avoid detection.
greenwald
New member
View attachment 57743
So much for Virginia being for lovers
Not hauled away unless their are other issues, typically a ticket and on your way...its the notation of RD on the citation that will get your attention when you try to pay.
No personal experience in Virginia...and most other states, just doing some light reading this evening. It is as serious as a DUI however...
And as much of a State revenue generator as a deterrent according to quoted officials.
Since we avoid the big roads, never saw a need to get on down the road at a crazy pace east of the Mississippi. Now across the west, where it's not a sin to go over 60 , enjoy the space.
Being able to ride at a good clip on most our local roads in the 65-75 legal posted speeds that recently were 55 are plenty to enjoy the ride and the capabilities of these two wheeled engineering projects. And if we choose,we can grip and rip and deal with it if we get noticed.
Now across the border to our north in New Brunswick,we saw the Canadian Trooper haul away the vehicle as the 20 something young lady was coming to grips with hefty fine, no car and needing a ride from the store . A two up Goldwing we had been crossing paths with blew us off the road just minutes before that
Watched a driver hauled off in cuffs for 20 over in Virginia, while traveling down to rendezvous with my son in Fort Bragg, NC. Spoke with deputy (unrelated issue) - no outstanding warrants - simply speed, which at 20 over, morphs into Reckless Driving.
Common department policy that when transporting anyone in custody, they are hand-cuffed for officer's safety. Few exceptions.
Driver had to post to be released on his own recognizance, a typical situation when LEO's deal with out-of-state operators. That way, when they blow off the court appearance, the jurisdiction has some compensation (and a bench warrant for "Failure to Appear" is usually on file, should they get stopped in that state in the future).
Speaking of 'revenue' and the bad rap it gets, consider that the hefty fines are first and foremost, a financial deterrent to the operator - an economic effort to get you to obey traffic laws and therefore, reduce crashes. After you have volunteered your funds to a jurisdiction, it has to go somewhere, so it becomes state and local revenue. Duh. Where did you think the money went?!
Yes - there are some smaller communities/villages that abuse the revenue stream and issue tickets willy-nilly to pad the local treasury (have one such one 12 minutes from where I live). But much less frequent than is implied by certain posters on this Forum to rationalize their behavior.
Majority of the time, that mega-ticket amount is your personal reward for thinking the law applies to everyone else, but not you, and that you can use public roadways as 'track days.'
Still glad the OP posted his event, as it has generated lots of discussion, albeit filled with the usual buzz-words like "beat the system," "avoid detection," "I buy my justice," "delay and screw with the officer's schedule," etc. - commentary common to this Forum, as opposed to "law-abiding" or "personal responsibility."
No one is going to change they way they ride, based on all this chatter - but chatter is still good.
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mikegalbicka
Back in the saddle again
Seeds get planted. Some may germinate and sprout at the appropriate time if the soil is fertile. They will never sprout if not planted though so keep planting.
ricochetrider
Out There Somewhere
The discussion is great. Always nice to see others' views on any subject.
None of us would consider ourselves lawbreakers; yet in today's world there are such a vast number of laws that it is entirely possible to be in violation of something and not even know it. Clearly, speeding does not fall into the category of the obscure or arcane, but I admit that my MO is to drive (or ride) rather quickly on the freeways of my Mid Atlantic region. Can't provide a reason for this, other than to say I typically put about 30-35K on annually for work, mostly within 120 miles of home with forays out to NYC and North Jersey. I guess I have places I have to go and I usually need to get there asap. Fortunately, almost half of my driving happens late at night.
Admittedly, although life itself is perhaps a little "faster" here than in other parts of the country, our speed limits by necessity, do not reflect this general fact of life in semi crowded or overcrowded environs. There are places, however, where you have to simply keep up or get run over. Keeping up or running within prevailing traffic patterns will not get you pulled over or ticketed.
Talk of hauling folks away for doing 20 over reminds me that we once lived in times of tolerance. The Modern World doesn't include the tolerance of others' opinions and views much less speeding. I understand that speeding is a safety thing and that the faster people go in heavy traffic, the more people die. Having said that, I grew up (as we ALL did) in times when the interactions between the police and the populace were much more congenial than they are today.
Got pulled over a few nights ago on the George Washington Parkway headed home after a DC gig. It was maybe 130-2 AM. Guy looked at my license and asked with some incredulity,
"Are you going all the way home right now?".
I said "Yes I am indeed, and I have to be at X (another city, not my home) for work at 8:00 am."
Giving me a look along with a couple wry comments, he let me go, no warning, no tix. I thanked him and promised to drive closer to the speed limit on his Parkway in the future.
In PA, police will issue a "failure to obey signs and devices" citation. Big fine but no points.
DAHIK
None of us would consider ourselves lawbreakers; yet in today's world there are such a vast number of laws that it is entirely possible to be in violation of something and not even know it. Clearly, speeding does not fall into the category of the obscure or arcane, but I admit that my MO is to drive (or ride) rather quickly on the freeways of my Mid Atlantic region. Can't provide a reason for this, other than to say I typically put about 30-35K on annually for work, mostly within 120 miles of home with forays out to NYC and North Jersey. I guess I have places I have to go and I usually need to get there asap. Fortunately, almost half of my driving happens late at night.
Admittedly, although life itself is perhaps a little "faster" here than in other parts of the country, our speed limits by necessity, do not reflect this general fact of life in semi crowded or overcrowded environs. There are places, however, where you have to simply keep up or get run over. Keeping up or running within prevailing traffic patterns will not get you pulled over or ticketed.
Talk of hauling folks away for doing 20 over reminds me that we once lived in times of tolerance. The Modern World doesn't include the tolerance of others' opinions and views much less speeding. I understand that speeding is a safety thing and that the faster people go in heavy traffic, the more people die. Having said that, I grew up (as we ALL did) in times when the interactions between the police and the populace were much more congenial than they are today.
Got pulled over a few nights ago on the George Washington Parkway headed home after a DC gig. It was maybe 130-2 AM. Guy looked at my license and asked with some incredulity,
"Are you going all the way home right now?".
I said "Yes I am indeed, and I have to be at X (another city, not my home) for work at 8:00 am."
Giving me a look along with a couple wry comments, he let me go, no warning, no tix. I thanked him and promised to drive closer to the speed limit on his Parkway in the future.
In PA, police will issue a "failure to obey signs and devices" citation. Big fine but no points.
DAHIK
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Rinty
New member
In Alberta, most of the lesser moving violation cases are heard in special traffic courts, before j.p.'s or traffic commissioners, who are lawyers under contract. Defence paralegal services, run by former police traffic officers, are available for very reasonable rates, so we run most of our family's tickets, and as Jerry says, they're always pled down.
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Rinty
New member
We just spent a couple of weeks in Holland, and many parts of the Snelweg are posted at 130 km/hr (81 mph) now. Hertz let us exchange our Skoda for an Audi A1, so we could let it stretch its legs a bit. It's maybe the best car I've ever driven.
There are speed cameras everywhere, and the Dutch have the highest fines in Europe.
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I was stopped right where the 80MPH ended on IH-10 coming into Kerrville,TX from West TX right after the change years back...the local sheriff's deputy warned me to not do that the next time and asks folks "80 not fast enough for you?"
It is a great place to meet and greet for many folks lulled by miles of openess.
Local enforcement on US highways on borders where the road is technically the same standards to allow 75mph...until you roll across that line and drop to 55. It isn't always a safety decision , but it is what it is.
A certain state to our west spent more money on signage to let you know when or not to pass on top of the passing zone stripage than to change to 60 or 65 where it makes sense...they are getting there it seems.
It is a great place to meet and greet for many folks lulled by miles of openess.
Local enforcement on US highways on borders where the road is technically the same standards to allow 75mph...until you roll across that line and drop to 55. It isn't always a safety decision , but it is what it is.
A certain state to our west spent more money on signage to let you know when or not to pass on top of the passing zone stripage than to change to 60 or 65 where it makes sense...they are getting there it seems.
If you are picking up a lot of speeding tickets, maybe Jerry's advice to get a good lawyer might save you a lot of money - or it might not. Clearly depends upon the jurisdiction - what it will cost you in fines and points on your insurance vs what the lawyer will cost you/save you. BTW, I wonder why a judge would allow a lawyer to plead down a speeding ticket to an "equipment fault" if the officer is solid on the speeding charge. Lawyer is paying off the judge? If not that, then why would your personal defense not be as good as that of your lawyer? Jerry, any comment?
My last speeding citation was over 20 years ago, though did get a warning for speeding on the bike, and let go with a warning because I was the slowest vehicle the officer had seen! Hey, I think all of us sometimes speed in our cars and bikes. We just need to do it safely and where we will not be caught.
SMALL TOWNS: ENTERING, IN THEM, AND LEAVING: Traffic tickets are for sure revenue generators, usually enforced entering or leaving the town, with very low speed limits. But they are seldom enforced. Two strategies: 1. If little traffic, get your speed down to no more than 5 over and crawl through the town. 2. If plenty of traffic over the speed limit, stay with them but don't lead.
HIGHWAYS: If everybody seems to be on cruise control at 60 and the limit is posted as 60 (though clearly 70 would be safe) you have been warned. Serious speed control in the area. Hang back and enjoy the scenery. If lots of people are exceeding the speed limit, you can too. Just don't be the fastest.
BACK ROADS: If you want to play with speed (I personally have gotten over that urge) this is the place to satisfy it. Of course, this is where a lot of riders die. But they are very seldom caught speeding.
My last speeding citation was over 20 years ago, though did get a warning for speeding on the bike, and let go with a warning because I was the slowest vehicle the officer had seen! Hey, I think all of us sometimes speed in our cars and bikes. We just need to do it safely and where we will not be caught.
SMALL TOWNS: ENTERING, IN THEM, AND LEAVING: Traffic tickets are for sure revenue generators, usually enforced entering or leaving the town, with very low speed limits. But they are seldom enforced. Two strategies: 1. If little traffic, get your speed down to no more than 5 over and crawl through the town. 2. If plenty of traffic over the speed limit, stay with them but don't lead.
HIGHWAYS: If everybody seems to be on cruise control at 60 and the limit is posted as 60 (though clearly 70 would be safe) you have been warned. Serious speed control in the area. Hang back and enjoy the scenery. If lots of people are exceeding the speed limit, you can too. Just don't be the fastest.
BACK ROADS: If you want to play with speed (I personally have gotten over that urge) this is the place to satisfy it. Of course, this is where a lot of riders die. But they are very seldom caught speeding.
ricochetrider
Out There Somewhere
Well if we are posting *guidelines*...
an old 1% biker type friend; her old bike had no working speedo-
told me once:
if you are passing everybody, you're going too fast.
if everybody is passing you, you're going too slow.
it really isn't rocket surgery.
and while we are sharing anecdotes....
Riding west across New Brunswick on the motorway, I had my cruise control set at what I figured was a somewhat risky 75 MPH. Wide open road, basically nobody there. Was woken from my stupor by three Canadians, two guys on big HD dressers, one guy on a K1600. They flew past us like we were standing still, and were out of sight completely in just a few seconds. I think the speed limit was 70 KPH? Those dudes were ROLLIN' ON. Startled the daylights out of us!
an old 1% biker type friend; her old bike had no working speedo-
told me once:
if you are passing everybody, you're going too fast.
if everybody is passing you, you're going too slow.
it really isn't rocket surgery.
and while we are sharing anecdotes....
Riding west across New Brunswick on the motorway, I had my cruise control set at what I figured was a somewhat risky 75 MPH. Wide open road, basically nobody there. Was woken from my stupor by three Canadians, two guys on big HD dressers, one guy on a K1600. They flew past us like we were standing still, and were out of sight completely in just a few seconds. I think the speed limit was 70 KPH? Those dudes were ROLLIN' ON. Startled the daylights out of us!
JDOCKERY132445
OldBMWMaster
@BCKRider
I really do not care how things get done; I just want it to go away. It is a crooked system and it is beyond my abilities to change it. I learned to play the game and my attorneys are pros at making it happen. I am fast and I am safe. I know some cannot manage to do both; but I do.
I really do not care how things get done; I just want it to go away. It is a crooked system and it is beyond my abilities to change it. I learned to play the game and my attorneys are pros at making it happen. I am fast and I am safe. I know some cannot manage to do both; but I do.
classicvw
Active member
I lost what respect I had for you with your last two sentences. Speed vs. safety are inversely related. Just a fact of physics and human limitations... You're not fast and safe doing 85 in a 65 zone. It's 65 not to annoy you. It's 65 because the road was probably built 60 years ago and not engineered for 85MPH. You're fast and lucky...but I see you think you're special and also entitled.
