2002 R1150RT Alternator Voltage

[HowieDolt]

Hi,
I have read many other forum posts trying specifically to pin down the approx. or best case voltage the alternator should be...mine is 13.7v on idle and 14.0v at 2000rpm as tested at the battery posts.

The reason I ask is I purchased an EarthX battery, threw it in the bike, sat for a day (just the clock being powered) , came out, started and ran for about 10-12min then shut off. Nothing, lights out, 0v at battery.

When I contacted Earthx they say that the battery needs a min of 14.2v for it to accept a charge. So is this the dilemma I have if the RT1150RT is normal at 14.0v??

Anyone had experience with this brand? Although this is the recommended battery from Earthx (ETX24D), it seems if the Bike doesn't put out 14.2v, there is really no point in the recommendation/purchase.??


Tks in advance.

Howard

 

[kioolt]

If that's the official manufacturer's stance on minimum battery charge voltage I'd never buy one.

 

[happy wanderer]

Your oilhead alternator is working perfectly but you have the wrong battery for the application. Unless you modify your alternator to put out a higher voltage that battery will not work for you. You'd be better off with an Odyssey PC680. I think a Panasonic LC-X1220P should fit in your bike also but check measurements on that one.

 

[kioolt]

What you were told on the phone is not what is posted on Earthx website.

QUOTE

How do I know if my vehicle charging system is working ok
Connect a voltmeter to the battery. Measure the voltage before the vehicle is started and shortly after. The voltage should increase after the vehicle is started, to approximately 13.8 ? 14.7 volts. If your charging system does not output a voltage higher than the battery, there may be a problem with the charging system.

END QUOTE

There is a lot of good information about Earthx batteries on their FAQ page.

http://earthxmotorsports.com/faqs/

 

[HowieDolt]

Yes...I have been over their FAQ's. Actually ended up doing a few tests which confirmed my systems is "normal", except for pinning down the 14v peak i should expect.

I emailed them, however in the reply, they seem to sing something different. Here is the quote.

It is a misconception by many people that if they start their bike and let it idle it recharges the battery but it does not, it will drain a battery. I strongly recommend you have your stator checked as it would appear it is not supplying the correct amount of voltage to recharge the battery and run the accessories. It should be running at 14.2V. Also in the FAQ section is has a section on how to check your charging system that will tell you how to check this yourself if you have a voltmeter.

I really thought I was buying a battery, not checking my bike for charging issues that have never surfaced.

So looks like I'm going to have to respond to Earthx and get some clarification on this battery being a go/no-go.

 

[dieselyoda]

Generally speaking, most systems will go to 14.5V, after about 45 minutes of running at high idle, like on the highway. Even seen some as high as 15.1V, data logged as peaks. My R1100RT has run as high as 14.8V on cold days but barely above 14V on hot days.

The alternator on my bike is exactly the same as the alternator in my truck, just a different frame and voltage regulator.

I'm not saying that you have a problem with your alternator, I just think you are looking at your issue with a critical eye. It could be as simple as you got a long shelf, floor plan battery and it really just needed a good boo up your gorgeous highways.

The values I just gave for charging voltages is general, very general.

You could be a little upset with your battery purchase because of dirty ground connections.

 

[happy wanderer]

I have a calibrated digital panel meter on my bike and I look at it all the time since it's right in front of me. It is wired directly to the battery terminals to measure exact voltage all the time. It ranges from 13.7 to 14.0 volts and no more.

This is due to the internal voltage regulator on the same 50Amp Bosch alternator that is in all the oilheads. Well, I checked the 1100GS and RT and the 1150GS and RT and they are all the same part number. I'm assuming the other models are probably the same.

Producing a higher charge voltage is possible but would involve either modifying the regulator with a diode or replacing the regulator with a higher voltage unit. Getting it out of the bike is time consuming and fairly involved.

There are lots of posts here already on the subject of oilhead alternators and their shortcomings for use with some types of batteries.

 

[jammess]

I kind of liked the idea of simply buying an Odyssey charger to maintain an AGM battery so that you are only using the motorcycle alternator output to maintain what amounts to a float charge on the AGM battery. Seems to me that would be a lot less hassle than modifying the regulator. Myself I am through with AGM batts in favor of the good old flooded lead acid and all the associated preventive maintenance that way all I need is a couple of Battery Tender Juniors and a good hydrometer.

 

[gsaddict]

Temperature comes into play here.

The varying charge voltage observed is because the regulator is temperature compensated. The lower the temperature the higher the charge voltage. The range is typically 13.9v to as high as 15v for a very brief period.

 

[PAS]

I bought the Odyssey charger for my 680 and keep it plugged in. Getting to and maintaining a flooded battery on the 03 RT would be no fun. Just my opinion. Also have one in the 81 R100RT.

 

[rxcrider]

started and ran for about 10-12min then shut off. Nothing, lights out, 0v at battery.

Were you riding it for 10-12 minutes, or just letting it idle in place? If the latter, did you have a fan it front of it to keep it cooled. Our bikes need airflow to prevent overheating.

The fact that the battery read 0v across its posts (assuming you had it disconnected from the bike wiring) indicates to me that you have a bigger issue than an incompatible battery and charging system. A battery, even a completely trashed one will pretty much always show some voltage unless there is an open circuit inside it. For example, I once had a riding lawnmower battery which suffered a dead short on the battery cable to the starter which welded the solenoid closed when the key was turned. This lefty the unit with a dead short and the insulation melted off the wires and the hot wire sitting on the battery housing melted a hole through the top of the battery. Nobody knew what was happening and when the smoke came pouring out from under the seat, they just ran away. The wire eventually melted through, causing an open circuit and stopping the event. That battery, well boiled with a hole melted through the top, still read 7 V across the posts.

Also, from http://earthxmotorsports.com/our-batteries/#charging (click on "battery charging" on the left :
"... use any ?modern? lead-acid battery charger or 13.2V Lithium battery charger. By ?modern? we mean a charger that was built in the last 10 years that automatically turns off when the battery is fully charged (based on volts). Also, be sure the charger?s voltage level does not exceed 15V. If the charger does not display the voltage reading, then use a voltmeter to check the voltage while charging. As with any battery you are charging, follow these safety tips..."

EarthX seems to be putting a lot of overcharge, overdischarge, short circuit, etc. protection in a processor in the battery housing. My guess is that something in the area has failed if you are truly getting 0V across the terminals with the battery disconnected from the bike.

 

[kioolt]

Were you riding it for 10-12 minutes, or just letting it idle in place? If the latter, did you have a fan it front of it to keep it cooled. Our bikes need airflow to prevent overheating.

The fact that the battery read 0v across its posts (assuming you had it disconnected from the bike wiring) indicates to me that you have a bigger issue than an incompatible battery and charging system. A battery, even a completely trashed one will pretty much always show some voltage unless there is an open circuit inside it. For example, I once had a riding lawnmower battery which suffered a dead short on the battery cable to the starter which welded the solenoid closed when the key was turned. This lefty the unit with a dead short and the insulation melted off the wires and the hot wire sitting on the battery housing melted a hole through the top of the battery. Nobody knew what was happening and when the smoke came pouring out from under the seat, they just ran away. The wire eventually melted through, causing an open circuit and stopping the event. That battery, well boiled with a hole melted through the top, still read 7 V across the posts.

Also, from http://earthxmotorsports.com/our-batteries/#charging (click on "battery charging" on the left :
"... use any ?modern? lead-acid battery charger or 13.2V Lithium battery charger. By ?modern? we mean a charger that was built in the last 10 years that automatically turns off when the battery is fully charged (based on volts). Also, be sure the charger?s voltage level does not exceed 15V. If the charger does not display the voltage reading, then use a voltmeter to check the voltage while charging. As with any battery you are charging, follow these safety tips..."

EarthX seems to be putting a lot of overcharge, overdischarge, short circuit, etc. protection in a processor in the battery housing. My guess is that something in the area has failed if you are truly getting 0V across the terminals with the battery disconnected from the bike.

If you read the FAQ section on Earthx you will find that there is a circuit built into their battery that will disconnect the battery on a undercharge or overcharge condition. In effect making the voltage read 0V. It can be reset by temporarily hooking up a good battery across the terminals for about 2 seconds.

 

[roger 04 rt]

The voltage regulator inside the alternator, which I just had apart a couple months ago is stamped 14 volts. Below 20 or 25C the voltage is slightly higher, above 20/25C it gets lower. In GS-911 logs I usually see 13.7-13.8 volts. This is true for all RPMs above roughly 1500 to 1800 RPM.

 

[roger 04 rt]

The voltage regulator inside the alternator, which I just had apart a couple months ago is stamped 14 volts. Below 20/25C (not sure exact crossover temperature) the voltage is slightly higher, above 20/25C it gets lower. In GS-911 logs I usually see 13.7-13.8 volts. This is true for all RPMs above roughly 1500 to 1800 RPM.

 

[rxcrider]

If you read the FAQ section on Earthx you will find that there is a circuit built into their battery that will disconnect the battery on a undercharge or overcharge condition. In effect making the voltage read 0V. It can be reset by temporarily hooking up a good battery across the terminals for about 2 seconds.

Reading the FAQ page does give some more info: http://earthxmotorsports.com/faqs/ (same link you already posted, but redundancy is ok, right)

Additionally, the manual is pretty good: http://earthxmotorsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/ETX_Manual_111017_G.pdf
From the manual:

A cell can be permanently damaged if over charged (over-voltage) or over discharged (undervoltage) just one time. The BMS has circuitry to disconnect the battery from the load/charging system (your vehicle) if the voltage drops below 11 volts or exceeds 15.5 volts.

Model: ETX24C, ETX24D
Nominal Operational Voltage 13.3 V
Ah (Lead-acid equivalent) 24
Ah (actual)* 8 (.5C rate)
Reserve Capacity* 17 min.
Pulse Crank Amps (PCA) 420A (3 sec @ 25 ?C, voltage >9V)
Cold Crank Amps (CCA) 270A (modified SAE test, 3 sec@ 0?F, voltage >7.2V)
Continuous Discharge Amps 80A
Standard Charge Voltage 13.9 - 14.6 V
Maximum Charge Voltage 15 V
Recommended Charge Amps 1 - 10A
Max Charge Amps 40A (from vehicle charging system)
Weight. 2.6 lb. (1.2Kg)
Dimensions ETX24C 5.9in x 3.4in x 4.5in
(150mmX86mmX115mm)
ETX24D 6.9in x 3.4in x 6.1in (175mm
X86mm X155mm)
Environmental Rating (resistance to
water intrusion)
IP 66 (wash down with a high pressure
washer)
Operating Temperature* -30 ?C to +60 ?C
Storage Temperature -40 ?C to +60 ?C

 

[HowieDolt]

Were you riding it for 10-12 minutes, or just letting it idle in place? If the latter, did you have a fan it front of it to keep it cooled. Our bikes need airflow to prevent overheating.

The fact that the battery read 0v across its posts (assuming you had it disconnected from the bike wiring) indicates to me that you have a bigger issue than an incompatible battery and charging system. A battery, even a completely trashed one will pretty much always show some voltage unless there is an open circuit inside it. For example, I once had a riding lawnmower battery which suffered a dead short on the battery cable to the starter which welded the solenoid closed when the key was turned. This lefty the unit with a dead short and the insulation melted off the wires and the hot wire sitting on the battery housing melted a hole through the top of the battery. Nobody knew what was happening and when the smoke came pouring out from under the seat, they just ran away. The wire eventually melted through, causing an open circuit and stopping the event. That battery, well boiled with a hole melted through the top, still read 7 V across the posts.

Also, from http://earthxmotorsports.com/our-batteries/#charging (click on "battery charging" on the left :
"... use any ?modern? lead-acid battery charger or 13.2V Lithium battery charger. By ?modern? we mean a charger that was built in the last 10 years that automatically turns off when the battery is fully charged (based on volts). Also, be sure the charger?s voltage level does not exceed 15V. If the charger does not display the voltage reading, then use a voltmeter to check the voltage while charging. As with any battery you are charging, follow these safety tips..."

EarthX seems to be putting a lot of overcharge, overdischarge, short circuit, etc. protection in a processor in the battery housing. My guess is that something in the area has failed if you are truly getting 0V across the terminals with the battery disconnected from the bike.

Hello all,

I was just warming up the bike as I was going to do an oil change. Temperature where I live on that day was about 12 deg Celsius. So running for 10-12min, bike stationary, brought the RID oil temp to about 3 - 4 bars only. No where near over heat condition.
Upon checking the battery, ok..not ZERO, more like .002v.

I have also tried the jump from a know good battery of similar size (my old BMW OEM) for 2 sec, while the charger was connected, and yet this battery or my charger refuses to charge this battery. I can respect the advanced features of protection, but I have feelings that this battery is now toast. My charger, as they say, is a newer model. Granted its only a Napa Outdoorsman series, but good for lead-acid/agm/gel, selectable charge rates of 2/10/60a, along with deep cycle batteries and either 6v or 12v operation. So I do not think it's my charger. Picture of charger is not my picture, and my charger still has the alligator clips attached. But this is basically the charger I am using, same features etc.

I am going to contact EarthX and see what they suggest. I will advise. I just might have myself a paperweight, although its not very heavy. lol
Also as a side note: this EarthX battery is actually not a perfect fit either. It is too wide by about 1/8th inch. Doesn't sound like much, but metal doesn't stretch so I had to spread the battery box out a bit ( hammer) to squeeze this sucker in there. And the hold down strap is a pain, because they put cutouts in the top of the battery where the strap would come across, so it fits loose, so I had to modify that too.

Luckily I still have my old battery and it is back in the bike and I am riding....so this ordeal is not holding me hostage.
Regarding an Odyssey PC680, I notice that they do NOT list this battery for use in the R1150RT, they actually say, nothing available. And it also seems that its only a 16ah rating and not 20ah like the OEM. Is this not a requirement partially because of the ABS system on the bike??

More power Scottie...got to have more power.!!

My quest continues. But I have learnt a few things along the way, which is always good.

Nakusp Rally soon. Anyone going from BC area?

Tks everyone.

 

[happy wanderer]

I know GSAddict and I will see you in Nakusp.

I see here you haven't pre registered yet though.

 

[HowieDolt]

I know GSAddict and I will see you in Nakusp.

I see here you haven't pre registered yet though.

No....not as yet. Am still trying to nail down just when I will arrive. Having to juggle some time as not many holidays left for me this year...lol.
Worst case, I will be there for Friday...I hope. I think it may be best just to purchase at the gate.

I need to pop into Kelowna for a day or two, then over to the rally. So will see how I can best plan my escape from "WORK".

Cya there.

 

[rxcrider]

I have also tried the jump from a know good battery of similar size (my old BMW OEM) for 2 sec, while the charger was connected, and yet this battery or my charger refuses to charge this battery. I can respect the advanced features of protection, but I have feelings that this battery is now toast.

Try jumping from the other battery without the charger hooked up. The impression I got from reading their instructions is that it should reset their safety system and you should be able to read voltage across the terminals after you do that.

Edit:

I sent the following email to EarthX:
_________________________________________
To: sales@earthxmotorsports.com
Subject: ETX24D troubleshooting question

I know your batteries have a disconnect feature built in to protect themselves from high and low voltage. Are there safety disconnects based on charge or load amps, regardless of voltage? Is there a safety disconnect for excessive temperature?
_________________________________________
Their Response:

Thank you for the question. The answer to all of your questions is yes, we have a microprocessor that monitors voltage, temperature and load and will disconnect if needed. All reasons for disconnecting EXCEPT over discharge will reset itself in about 90 seconds or less. In the event of an over discharge, to reset the connection inside the battery it must be charged back up. Under our FAQ section on our website, the first question/answer addresses this issue and what to do in the event this happens.
__________________________________________

So based on that, I'd check your EarthX battery with a volt meter with nothing connected to it. Next, I'd jumper a like sized battery to it for 2 seconds or more while monitoring the battery you are jumping from for a change in voltage, then disconnect and see if you read voltage on the EarthX battery. If nothing happens, I think you will be stuck contacting EarthX for warranty service.

If it is out of warranty and you see a mild voltage drop when you jump the batteries together, but can't read voltage on the EarthX by itself, my last ditch effort to try to resurrect it would be to hook up the charger on the 2 amp setting for a while with the batteries hooked together. If you do this, I'd monitor voltage and temperatures of all three pieces regularly. If the voltage is low, high or something starts to get hot, I'd call it quits quickly.

 

[daven81gs]

I went with the Odyssey 680 to replace my crappy battery that would after charged start the bike twice and then not have enough power for a third. My system puts out the high 13.8 number but my biggest problem is and will always be the hot temps here in Florida 79 degrees at midnight,please! When I get home from work I hook up to a newly purchased battery tender to maintain a happy battery.