1997 R1100RT quit in the rain

[grendellion]

I'm expecting to find that corroded HES wiring is the issue. I've had my RT for about a month and with the rain today I thought it would be a good opportunity to see how she does in the wet. The ride was great. This is my first bike with anything more than a flyscreen and this is also the first bike that is enjoyable to ride in the rain. Everything was stellar and going great until suddenly it wasn't. I was just rolling into Simonton and the bike decided we had gone far enough. The engine suddenly quit, no warning. I tried a rolling start with the momentum I had but no luck. The starter will turn the motor over forever but there is no spark. Got the bike back home, now to dry it out and see what I can see.

 

[gsaddict]

It is most likely the Hall sensor assembly. All 1100's will fail eventually depending on mileage & heat cycles due to incorrect insulation temp rating.
The problem shows up quickly when moisture is involved.
Beemerboneyard and Euromotoelectrics sell Bosch replacements.
Or you can have yours rewired with High Temperature Teflon wire for less than half the cost.
PM me if interested

 

[bc1100s]

I'm expecting to find that corroded HES wiring is the issue.

That being the case, plus the fact that you are new to the forum (welcome!), you should know that the work that GSAddict does is stellar.

 

[gsaddict]

That being the case, plus the fact that you are new to the forum (welcome!), you should know that the work that GSAddict does is stellar.

*Blush*

 

[happy wanderer]

Welcome to the forum!

Your bike is showing the classic symptoms of failed wiring for the Hall Sensor Plate.

If you are comfortable removing your existing hall sensor plate I highly recommend sending it to GSAddict for re-wiring. That sad photo of your lonely RT sitting in the rain brings back memories; none of them good! I've had two re-wired by GSAddict. One is installed in my current '00 RT and the other one is in the glovebox of same RT in case I come across one like your photo because I highly doubt mine will ever fail again. And if it does it will be a sensor, not the wiring!

There is a great tutorial here on what is involved for a total rebuild which is a bit involved but the remove and replace part is NOT a difficult job at all. The instructions on how to remove and replace the sensor are pretty good. It assumes you know how to get the fairing off but if not you can also find info on how to do that on this forum.

http://advrider.com/index.php?resources/r259-crank-angle-sensor.49/

 

[montliz]

Plus 1 on the GSAddict fix.

Johnny

 

[grendellion]

Got it, send HES to GSAddict. Will do! I got the sensor out today. It took me forever to find it the upper connector. The previous owner had replaced the alternator and when he did so he moved the connector to the LEFT side and tucked the wire under the alternator so that I had to cut the connector off to get the assembly out. You can see the state of the insulation. Even at the upper connector it's falling apart!



Here is before being cut off. Notice in the picture the oil on the motor, is this a bad gasket? I noticed it had also soiled the inside of my tupperware and my oil is low 1500 miles after an oil change.

 

[gsaddict]

It never ceases to amaze me how long the bikes will run with little or no insulation!
What I really worry about is a failure at high speed on the freeway in heavy traffic or when the throttle is called upon in an emergency situation.
So many are still out there running on the old insulation with the owners in denial.

 

[happy wanderer]

Got it, send HES to GSAddict. Will do! I got the sensor out today. It took me forever to find it the upper connector. The previous owner had replaced the alternator and when he did so he moved the connector to the LEFT side and tucked the wire under the alternator so that I had to cut the connector off to get the assembly out. You can see the state of the insulation. Even at the upper connector it's falling apart!

View attachment 52428

Here is before being cut off. Notice in the picture the oil on the motor, is this a bad gasket? I noticed it had also soiled the inside of my tupperware and my oil is low 1500 miles after an oil change.

View attachment 52429

Looks suspiciously like the head gasket. Best thing to do once oil has seeped all over the place like that is clean it all up with solvent. WD40 or simple green should do the trick. Once clean spray talcum powder or spray deodorant over suspected areas and go ride. The leak or leaks ?? will show up clearly and then you know what you are dealing with.

I've had a very small head gasket leak on one side for 40,000 miles now and I'm ignoring it since it's only cosmetic. Compression etc. is fine.

 

[grendellion]

$70 per head gasket, WOW! Are these gaskets I could make from the gasket paper at auto parts stores?

 

[PGlaves]

$70 per head gasket, WOW! Are these gaskets I could make from the gasket paper at auto parts stores?

no

 

[dieselyoda]

View attachment 52429

I might be more inclined to look very closely at the exhaust manifold gasket. It doesn't look gooey enough for me to go with burning oil.

Now I wish I had a picture of what a broken exhaust manifold does to the engine compartment of an excavator. More time to clean than to change the manifold and then we found cooked wiring.

 

[grendellion]

I like the exhaust manifold gasket diagnosis better and I've already got those parts on the way. I'll clean it up, replace the gaskets and see what happens. Thanks for your help guys.

 

[happy wanderer]

I like the exhaust manifold gasket diagnosis better and I've already got those parts on the way. I'll clean it up, replace the gaskets and see what happens. Thanks for your help guys.

I wouldn't replace _anything_ until you know what it is and where it's coming from. Very tiny amounts of oil on hot aluminum spread all over the place. And once they get cooked on they look much worse than they really are most of the time.

 

[grendellion]

I had planned on replacing the exhaust header gasket since I was down there and thought it might help with some minor exhaust issues. The previous owner installed a Two-Brothers exhaust that I'm not too fond of. I've added a quiet tip to the can but it's still pretty loud. After a quick look at what might be causing oil to leak from the exhaust header I've decided you are absolutely right. I need to find out where the oil is coming from before fooling myself into thinking I've found the right fix.

 

[ibjman]

1998 R1100RT Failed to start after brisk wash job.

Thanks to all who have come before me on this thread!

The info contained here was extremely helpful in getting me through the diagnostic & repair after my oilhead refused to start after a heavy duty hose down in the driveway.

All new Hall Plate was obtained fro EME and installed. Starts right up now. Inspection of the old part showed all the common fail spots in the wiring.

After installing the Hall sensor plate I proceeded to make the little timing box shown earlier her in the forum.
What a GREAT help that article is!!!! THANKS

One question!

I was unable to secure the flywheel clutch lock..... not having the factory tool and not wishing to remove the starter today. (I'm old and have stiff & sore stuff going on everywhere. It was all I could do to complete this and all the plastics gave me fits getting all the fasteners lined up).

Anyway, I was able to accomplish a timing procedure by getting the indicator LED to go off at exactly the TDC mark on the flywheel through the viewing port in the right side bell housing.
I did find it somewhat concerning that I had to move the Hall plate almost to it's limit (slots) to get the light to cut off as the flywheel arrived at TDC.

There's NO way I could have gotten any advance beyond the TDC mark without lengthening the adjustment holes in the plate ( I did not).

It appears that the plate is set about 5 deg more advanced than the old one was.

Is this cause for concern? The replacement part from EME is a Bosch part.

Has anyone else found comparable concerns after installing a new Hall sensor assembly?

Thanks, Ibjman

 

[pauls1150]

I've never had reason to inspect the timing of my 1150, but back on my '97 1100, I did advance the plate significantly from the factory setting, almost right to the end as I recall (vaguely...), and it ran much better.

 

[ibjman]

Thanks Pauls11...

I see, well that's good to know......I expect that you may not recall the exact setting as it related to the "OT" mark on the flywheel.

My situation seems to be that I could not advance the timing beyond the TDC mark..... even if I wanted to. (not that I feel a need to do that)

I'll get it out for a road test tomorrow.

For now, I'll assume that the "OT" mark when placed in the center of the view port would align exactly with the Clutch Cover flywheel locking holes in the area near the starter. Try as I might......I could not get a position with a flashlight and/or mirror to verify visually if the locking hole above the starter was close to agreement with the OT mark on the other side??????

Another item that just dawned on me after I wrote the original post....... this is not a 1998RT engine.

Shortly after I got home from the EBAY auction with the machine, It was found to have an unusually worn rear main bearing.

At that time I found a good deal on a low mileage (approx. 14,000) engine from an earlier year RS. Unfortunately I could not verify the year of the replacement engine.......it was suggested it might be a 1995.....who knows.
Seems like in reviewing the copy of the service manual I have, that the timing procedure differs from year to year.

Can anyone verify this engine year & actual model by the engine number???? Number is: 112EA 1094 6145
(maybe we can guess that the engine was manufactured in 10/94? That would seem to agree with what the dismantler told me about the bike he obtained it from.

Looking forward to more opinions from other members.

Last question for now........Is this bike supposed to have a "tuning plug" or chip that is inserted somewhere in the harness? If so....I've never found it.
Please tell me.

To complicate my matter further.....this was originally a California bike with evaporative emissions equipment.

Being a guy that usually believes that "all stock" is best........when I found the evap. system had been removed by a previous owner.....I purchased all the equipment (used) and re-installed it as factory.

Please don't Rant at me about being an idiot.........that's already apparent!!!

Thanks again.......Ibjman

 

[pauls1150]

No "tuning plugs" (unless an after-market exhaust supplier also included a "performance" chip to install inside the computer), but it may be worth a look at the CCP - catalytic converter plug - located in the fusebox under the seat, to verify it's the "right" color. There are several colors for different setups, depending on year, what country the bike was destined for, and which computer, throttle bodies, & exhaust it has; some early versions even got No plug.
Search this oilhead form for CCP and you "should" get threads defining which color is for which application. Some people change them, usually with poor results - Nothing beats a good careful (finicky) tune-up. But if it's "wrong", your gas mileage might suck and/or it just won't "feel" right.

And ok, we won't get on your case about re-installing a known gremlin that can be the cause of vacuum leaks, and can actually significantly damage your motor...

 

[rxcrider]

...I was unable to secure the flywheel clutch lock..... not having the factory tool and not wishing to remove the starter...
I did find it somewhat concerning that I had to move the Hall plate almost to it's limit (slots) to get the light to cut off as the flywheel arrived at TDC..

The only thing that I would think about is an installation issue with the pulley assembly. The trigger ring gets glued into the pulley and just has a stamped tab to time it to the crank. It is locked in position when the bolt is torqued down. If this isn't done carefully, the ring can be out of time with the crank. Without having the flywheel locked via the TDC pin or the toothed block were you able to get the bolt torqued properly? There is some play between the tab on the trigger ring and the notch on the crank, so if you are confident you have this assembled correctly, I wouldn't worry about a few degrees.