05 RT 1200- No up shifting past first gear

[williambrown]

Disaster this morning. One mile into Sunday morning ride, I lost shifting between second & third. While slowing, went down to first. Power applied, progressed, BUT but could not shift up. Limped home in first. Bike has 85000 kilometres on board, regular servicing. Gearbox oil changed 500 kilometres ago, nothing in old oil !

Any clues ?

DabDab
Australia

 

[pappy35]

Shift pawl (well, that's inside the gearbox I think so maybe you can't check that easily)? Shift lever bolt loose meaning it's not engaging the shaft? Can you put it into neutral? Have you tried shifting with your hand on the center stand (engine off please for safety) just to see if anything sounds wrong? You need to give the hive mind a little more information.

 

[pappy35]

I was referring to item 1 in this image. It's held in place by the item 5 bolt. Also, is the link (Item 2) properly connected? Is the lever (item 4) screw (item 5 again) tight and properly gripping item 3?

If all these seem tight then the bad news is the rest of the claptrap is inside the gearbox.

 

[51797]

If all these seem tight then the bad news is the rest of the claptrap is inside the gearbox.

If that's the case, most likely a return spring broken in the shift linkage inside the gearbox.

Frank

 

[Dann]

How old is the clutch?
Could be the clutch friction disc

My clutch started slipping and I lost all gears on the highway. I was able to pull out (I was near an exit) and cruise out of the highway.

Had the bike towed home

This is what my clutch disk plate looked like.



I replaced it with a Kevlar oil resistant clutch




I hope it's something else. This is an expensive repair.

YMMV

 

[williambrown]

05 RT 1200-No up shifting past first gear

An update

Pulled oil from gearbox, which was only 200k old since service. No obvious metal in oil.

Checked all external gear linkages - no unusual movement there. Clutch seems to work, fluid in reservoir is at normal height

Ran gearbox up/down via back wheel on rear stand - no real issues up and down but there was some vagueness going through detente above third gear going up the gears. Gearshift position indicator was working

Having recently done valves using rear wheel in 6th gear to progress through TDC, I did notice that there appeared to be very little resistance to moving the wheel forwards in 6th gear

One other issue of note - when I accelerate quickly up to 120KPH on freeway, I sometimes sense a small amount of clutch slip. Clutch is probably original, though I am second owner from 35, 000 ks. ODO now reads 88,151 kilometres

Is this an indication of CLUTCH problemsrather than gearbox per se


DabDab

 

[pappy35]

When you say the clutch reservoir looks normal, what do you mean? Is it full or less than full? On these bikes as the clutch wears the reservoir level increases. Eventually, when the fluid level rises sufficiently, this will prevent the clutch from fully disengaging and will cause slippage. If the reservoir is full, open it up and suck it out to about midway between the marks, and close it up again. THen try to ride it and see what happens.

If it's somewhere between the marks then this is sounding more and more like the clutch is actually done. When you where in sixth do you know that the engine was actually moving? Maybe take a valve cover off and make sure. If it's not moving 1:1 with the rear wheel (by this I mean not stopping with the rear wheel in motion) the that's almost certainly a clutch issue.

 

[pappy35]

...on the other hand, even if the clutch was worn out, the bike would still shift. It would just be really clunky. It would behave as if you were power-shifting (not using the clutch) - clunk! - but it still should change gears up or down.

 

[Dann]

...on the other hand, even if the clutch was worn out, the bike would still shift. It would just be really clunky. It would behave as if you were power-shifting (not using the clutch) - clunk! - but it still should change gears up or down.

Mine never "clunked" and was always easy to shift. It felt more like slipping.
The bike was revving faster than normal to maintain the same speed until it completely failed.

 

[williambrown]

05 RT-No up shifting past first gear

Well the news is not good. Dealer has disassembled bike. Verdict is ( surprisingly ) the clutch is OK, but the gearbox is stuffed.

It seems that the INTERMEDIATE shaft has snapped. No real explanation, but this bike has been looked after by me and PO.When the event happened, I was doing a cautious 60 kph through a known speed trap, probably shifting from third to fourth gear. I limped home in first gear, the only gear I had available.

Its not clear how I was able to get first gear and load it up to move with a shaft in bits.

The dealer tells me BMW Australia do not sell parts for the gearbox internals, instead selling a whole box, which is just crazy. A new BMW gearbox is $6,000 Aus Dollars.

Max BMW have intermediate shafts for $1378 plus postage.

Does anyone know whether the intermediate shaft comes from BMW with a new set of cogs and bearings

One other option is a box from a wrecker, but such boxes are generally an unknown reality. It has been suggested if I went by the second hand option, it would be prudent to open the box and replace seals, shims and bearings at a minimum

As to the reason for the failure, the obvious reason to me is some sort of metallurgical failure. Does anyone have knowledge of such a failure, and did BMW do any recalls on this gearbox.

Bill
Canberra
Australia

 

[pappy35]

In this situation I would go used gearbox without even thinking twice about it. Yours in the first time I've heard of an internal gearbox failure (not that I've been into BMWs for that long mind you) on any brand of motorcycle in the 35 years I've been riding. I realize I'm just one guy with a fairly narrow range of experience but what are the odds that one guy (you) would have a catastrophic failure of a gearbox and then buy another used gearbox that also fails.

How much would a use one cost?

Edit: You know, this might also be a sign that it's time to buy a new or used motorcycle? I don't know your living situation and if you'd have room but if you got another 05-09 you'd have a ready supply of used parts or any future failure (other than the freak lightning strike of another gearbox failure of course).

 

[pappy35]

Here's one that might fit. Might give them a call and get the part number and see if it will fit yours. It needs and input shaft seal but the part is inexpensive and can be replaced without opening the transmission cases.

 

[williambrown]

05 RT 1200 -no up shifting past first gear

Looking now at used gearboxes

Can I fit a used GS box from 05 to day 08

Any internal ratio differences

Any external fitting issues

Much appreciated

Bill
Canberra
Australia

 

[pappy35]

That would be a good question for your dealer/mechanic. Otherwise I'd look up the part number for the gearbox on yours and only buy one that matches it exactly.

For example, per the MaxBMW fiche:
05-09 RT: 23 00 7 683 433 6-SPEED MANUAL TRANSMISSION (to 01/08)

06-07 GS and Adventure is 23 00 7 693 731

08-09 GS and Adventure is 23 00 7 726 515 6-SPEED TRANSMISSION SILVER (to 08/09)

So you see they are all a bit different and there's no way to tell from any online fiches what makes them different. They might all be externally identical but there might be other factors like, as you mentioned, gear ratios (which might not matter from a practical perspective) or external linkages are different. You'd best rely on someone who would now for sure before buying one.