Center stand is touching the oil pan...??

georgebarthel · Sep 16, 2020

Hello MOA, first time posting here. I recently picked up a '78 R100/7 with the intent of enjoying the work it takes to keep a vintage machine in good order.

One of the first gremlins I have noticed has to do with the center stand. When engaged (down), the cross member is in contact with the oil pan. I am smart enough to know that even a little bit of weight on the oil pan is something i'd like to avoid.

My question is, was there great variance in the geometry of the airhead's center stands over the years? I really would like to swap this out ASAP!

Many thanks in advance,
GB

20774 · Sep 16, 2020

Welcome to the forum and to your new-to-you BMW, GB!

Can you tell us if both wheels are touching the ground when using the center stand? It appears that the oil pan is stock. However, it appears that the stand has gone over center too much, indicating that the physical stops on the stand may have worn down. I also wonder if that's a stock stand. I can't see enough of the driver's side, but I don't see a tang that is welded to the left side to help pull down the stand from its up-position.

stevenrankin · Sep 16, 2020

Stand

It does look like you have a stock center stand. It is not a Reynolds ride off stand. It does look like a regular stock oil pan, not a deep pan or extended one.

So, one, it is possible the stand is the wrong one for the bike. Two the mounts are worn out. Three, the mounts are bent on the frame.

The broken tang is usual for a bike where the stand is used incorrectly or something is wrong with the stand. A lot of people put weight on it when lifting the bike up onto the stand instead of using it to pull the stand down to the ground an placing the foot over the bottom rung.

I can't recall if there is a part number of any kind stamped on the stock stands. I don't have the measurements for the stock stands.

Is the bike in original condition or has it been modified? St.

69zeff65 · Sep 16, 2020

I respectfully disagree

That oil pan looks to be a deep pan probably a Mac deep oil pan. I have one as well as several stock ones to compare and use the 100 mm bolt head size and center stand tubes as a gauge it really looks to be a Mac deep one. If the OP could provide a measurement of the depth of the oil pan it could be compared to one of my examples.

Also of note I have several center stands and on some the cross tube (the one shown hit the oil pan) are set at different distances from the mounts. which could also cause contact with the oil pan.

6322 · Sep 16, 2020

Not sure if it's a Mac pan but it looks like the factory one on my '83 R80ST, which is definitely different than the one on my '77 R100/7 dirt hack. Your issue may be a combination of the oil pan and centerstand.

From the '77

From '80

52184 · Sep 16, 2020

In the photo it looks like the stand is resting near the very ends of the curved feet. A photo from the side, without the cardboard, would clarify that and also give an idea on the angle of the deployed stand. When my R100GS started resting on it’s toes like that and the skidplate got close to the pan, it was a clear sign of wear in the centerstand and bushings. Also notable were the increase in the angle of the stand and the effort required to get the bike on and off the stand.

Rebuilding the stand and replacing the bushings solved the problem.

Best,
DeVern

pauls1150 · Sep 16, 2020

Besides worn bushings, and possibly the stand's thru holes too, I'm with Kurt on this one - look closely at the top corners of the stand (both sides) where they "stop" against the frame, they're likely a bit mashed, and possibly the frame contact points too.

Later stands (?) had a little conical hole to squirt grease into.

I've put deeper pans on a few airheads (my two R75s, a friend's R90, and my R100RT) and there was never an interference issue since the "deeper" addition was towards the front; I do seem to recall that one manufacturer included a warning in its advertising that it would not fit certain bikes due to interference, and one manufacturer even had a semi-cylindrical clearance on the bottom to accept the crosspiece.

stevenrankin · Sep 16, 2020

Deep pan

I have a deep pan on my RS, I never had a problem with the stock Center stand.

I did find however replacing it with a ride off stand the proper ride off stand has to be used. St.

69zeff65 · Sep 16, 2020

I looked at my 79 R100S

It does appear that the oil pan could very well be a stock one, I stand corrected.

I did confirm that there are two different center stands, one with the top brace tube welded higher up and closer to the top than the other one. My 1975 R 90/6 and R 90S and R 60/6 all have that top brace tube attached about 1 1/2" higher on the stand than the center for my "79 R 100S. I have the original center stand and a new replacement center stand for the '79 R 100S and both are identical to each other but different from the originals on the /6 bikes. My R 90S has a deep oil pan on it and the back portion of the cooling fins have been ground off to allow clearance for the center stand cross tube.

pglaves · Sep 16, 2020

The stand is going to far "over center". That means either that the stops are worn or that the mounts/bushings are worn. I bet that it is a bear to get off the centerstand on a smooth garage floor. Voni had an R65 with a stand like that and we could push it all around the garage on the center stand and it wouldn't even try to fold the stand up like a good little bikey.

20774 · Sep 16, 2020

I still think it's a stock pan. Anton has pictures of the various pans:

http://largiader.com/tech/oilpan/

69zeff65 · Sep 17, 2020

A few pictures of the different center stands

Side by side are the stock center stands, one from my '75 R 60/6 and the other from my '79 R 100S. Note the difference in the location of the cross tube in relation to the pivot points and spring mounts. Also the 3rd picture shows the stock center stand mounted and deployed on my '75 R 90S with near perfect frame tabs and new bushings. The angle is very close to what the OP has with his center stand, also it shows that the fins on the deeper oil pan have been ground down in order to provide clearance for the cross tube on the earlier Airhead center stand which is about 2 inches closer to the pivot points than what came on the post /6 bikes that had a deeper oil pan.

georgebarthel · Sep 19, 2020

20774 said:
Welcome to the forum and to your new-to-you BMW, GB!

Can you tell us if both wheels are touching the ground when using the center stand? It appears that the oil pan is stock. However, it appears that the stand has gone over center too much, indicating that the physical stops on the stand may have worn down. I also wonder if that's a stock stand. I can't see enough of the driver's side, but I don't see a tang that is welded to the left side to help pull down the stand from its up-position.

Hello, and many thanks for the welcome. While in this position, the rear wheel is touching the ground. The front is 2" off the floor. The tang is missing sadly. Since posting I have ordered a replacement center stand, one that features only the single cross member (which I did not know were available). I hope that the replacement remedies most of the above issues. I will certainly update the thread on this progress.

georgebarthel · Sep 19, 2020

STEVENRANKIN said:
It does look like you have a stock center stand. It is not a Reynolds ride off stand. It does look like a regular stock oil pan, not a deep pan or extended one.

So, one, it is possible the stand is the wrong one for the bike. Two the mounts are worn out. Three, the mounts are bent on the frame.

The broken tang is usual for a bike where the stand is used incorrectly or something is wrong with the stand. A lot of people put weight on it when lifting the bike up onto the stand instead of using it to pull the stand down to the ground an placing the foot over the bottom rung.

I can't recall if there is a part number of any kind stamped on the stock stands. I don't have the measurements for the stock stands.

Is the bike in original condition or has it been modified? St.

Thank you Steven, the bike is not in it's original condition. It's been "restored." I am going through everything now to make corrections etc. I appreciate your insights above, thanks!

20774 · Sep 19, 2020

georgebarthel said:
While in this position, the rear wheel is touching the ground. The front is 2" off the floor.

Good...that's the way it should be so the stand isn't deformed in any way. It's just the wrong stand!

stevenrankin · Sep 19, 2020

Frame mounts

Another thing to check and I say this from my experience is the center stand's frame mounts. I was having problems getting my 78RS onto and off the center stand only to find out the frame mounts were bent. I had checked the frame for straightness after an accident but neglected to check the center stand mounts. They were skewed off center and once I straightened them, things went back to normal.

It will be interesting to see the difference between the new stand and the old stand. You may find someone had installed the wrong stand. It is obvious from the pictures sent in another post the difference between a /6 and /7 stand when they are side by side, with no part number or number stamped on them, I could see where someone could mix them up if looking at one at a time. Of course, you have some guys who think, Hey, a stand is a stand, those are the guys who drive the next owner crazy because they find a bike that looks good but has a lot of mis matched parts.

So, check the frame mounts, check the holes, check the hardware, and if all is correct, you will be happy. Cheers, St.

georgebarthel · Sep 19, 2020

20774 said:
Good...that's the way it should be so the stand isn't deformed in any way. It's just the wrong stand!

Thank you Kurt, that is excellent news. Now, I just need to figure out how to jack/lift the moto carefully, in order to replace the stand, and rebuild the bushings, etc.

georgebarthel · Sep 19, 2020

STEVENRANKIN said:
Another thing to check and I say this from my experience is the center stand's frame mounts. I was having problems getting my 78RS onto and off the center stand only to find out the frame mounts were bent. I had checked the frame for straightness after an accident but neglected to check the center stand mounts. They were skewed off center and once I straightened them, things went back to normal.

It will be interesting to see the difference between the new stand and the old stand. You may find someone had installed the wrong stand. It is obvious from the pictures sent in another post the difference between a /6 and /7 stand when they are side by side, with no part number or number stamped on them, I could see where someone could mix them up if looking at one at a time. Of course, you have some guys who think, Hey, a stand is a stand, those are the guys who drive the next owner crazy because they find a bike that looks good but has a lot of mis matched parts.

So, check the frame mounts, check the holes, check the hardware, and if all is correct, you will be happy. Cheers, St.

Excellent advice sir, thank you. As soon as I figure out how to lift this machine off the stand, I'll be tackling a thorough inspection.

20774 · Sep 19, 2020

Does the bike have a side stand? It's not difficult to roll the bike off the center stand, then lean it over onto the side stand. You could secure the bike on the side stand and there should be enough clearance to changeout the center stand. I might be missing some issues there but seems like it could be done.

52184 · Sep 19, 2020

Another option is to just put down a blanket or other pad and lay the bike on it’s side.

Best,
DeVern

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