52184
GTRider
Those futurists likely never had a drunk upchuck in the back seat of their car...
Best,
DeVern
-
Welcome, Guest! We hope you enjoy the excellent technical knowledge, event information and discussions that the BMW MOA forum provides. Some forum content will be hidden from you if you remain logged out. If you want to view all content, please click the 'Log in' button above and enter your BMW MOA username and password. If you are not an MOA member, why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the BMW Owners News magazine, and all of the discounts and benefits the BMW MOA offers?
-
Beginning April 1st, and running through April 30th, there is a new 2024 BMW MOA Election discussion area within The Club section of the forum. Within this forum area is also a sticky post that provides the ground rules for participating in the Election forum area. Also, the candidates statements are provided. Please read before joining the conversation, because the rules are very specific to maintain civility.
The Election forum is here: Election Forum
Is Harley-Davidson Dying?
- Thread starter 52184
- Start date
Those futurists likely never had a drunk upchuck in the back seat of their car...
Best,
DeVern
Those futurists likely never had a drunk upchuck in the back seat of their car...
Best,
DeVern
Or lived through a highly contagious global pandemic.
While I sleep, my vehicle will stay locked in the garage or otherwise secured on the rooftop hover pad (since we’re talking about the future, why think so small and restrict yourself to automobiles?)
pappy35
New member
Nobody, and mean NOBODY, uses my personal Transporter except me and my family and friends. I don't care how much I could make beaming people to the Amazonis Planitia Pleasure Palace (you know, that new resort and casino near Olympus Mons on Mars)!
powwow
Member
I don't know your age, but mine (66) will not be the generation that shares as we are still of the mindset of take care of #1. The millennial generation has a completely different view on life and believe completely in a sharing economy that benefits the entire community. I believe they will likely be the ones that take advantage of technology and usher in an entirely new way for a society to operate.
52184
GTRider
I suspect it’s less about envisioning a new path for society and more about simply being more possession-averse than previous generations. Many of them have watched parents, extended family, or friends lose their homes as a result of the “Great Recession” (we may end up needing to come up with a new term for that—I hope not). Many of the younger set understand that vehicles of any sort are deep and rapidly depreciating assets and thus poor investments, and the younger set is much more interested in experiences than “things”—other than their personal technology devices, where they are quite fickle and demanding. And that leads back to the big questions—will H-D, BMW, or the MC industry in general be able to attract enough new young riders to sustain the industry or its individual marques? Are the new models and programs sufficient to do that? We’ve seen BMW roll out new lower-cost models that hold greater appeal and affordability to prospective new and younger riders. The Japanese manufacturers have done the same, devoting more attention to smaller and less-expensive bikes. H-D’s former chairman seemed inclined to move more in that direction, maybe even getting closer to offering a wider range of products with lower-cost options to appeal to younger, more cost-conscious riders—like they did in the 60s and 70s. But he’s been replaced and the new CEO supports that idea only for non-US operations. For the US, the new CEO appears to want to double down on the current H-D offerings. Will that work, for either market? I’d be interested in seeing how BMW is doing with the 310 and F700 bikes in the US as compared to their other markets, for example...
DeVern
wbrownell9
New member
I thought the Chevy Volt was a great idea, I don't know why they discontinued it. A friend has one and loves it - he commutes 35 miles a day to work in Atlanta on the freeway and it gets him there without using any gas, he recharges at work, drives it home (no gas), and recharges again at home. It's so smart it runs the engine at least twice a year just so he has to put fresh gas in the tank! That kind of all-electric range is probably good enough for 80% of people who need a personal (as opposed to work) vehicle.
Theoretically some sort of plug-in hybrid SUV would be ideal for me. At this point I can barely justify one car though, let alone two. I have one, it's a nice car, but I only drive when it's too cold to ride (mid-40's for me and going up every year), so 4 months/year max? Since early January it's been sitting on a charger with its feet in the air so the tires don't flat-spot, and it'll probably stay there until some time in November.
EVs are getting better and better, and more are coming on the market every year. I don't think self-driving tech will be mature enough in my lifetime though. Even if it's 99.99% reliable, that one failure in 10,000 will kill or injure too many people to be socially acceptable.
They probably discontinued the Volt because they came out with the Bolt which better fits the needs of people like your friend. It can easily manage commutes like his on its all-electric platform, while dispensing with the costly (to purchase and maintain) internal combustion engine.
Anyname
Active member
I think that one of Harley's biggest problems will be with their dealer network. Back when they were still selling Buells, I dropped into a local dealership to check them out. The salesman was all smiles until I mentioned that I was interested in a Buell. He pointed to a back corner of the showroom and said "They're over there". Then he turned and walked away. Anything not a typical HD was apparently not worth spending time on. I can't imagine what they will do when confronted with electric bicycles and motorcycles.
I see that as a dealership problem, not a Harley (specific) problem. I think you lucked out. You got an easy insight into how the dealer operated.
OM
pglaves
#13338
I agree. I do wonder about salesperson compensation at the big dealerships; especially multi-line dealerships. I know that in the small shops the saleperson might be a part owner pr may be salaried. But I wonder about the bigger shops: salary or commission. I know that at car dealerships with the sales guy on commission I can't hardly get rid of the guy as he follows from car to car to car.
I really haven't had issues with motorcycle salesman, on the other hand car salesmen make me crazy. Come to think of it motorcycle salesmen have not overly impressed me either. I guess I have come to accept mediocrity!
I bought a new Ford F150 Lariat last fall. I stopped at a couple dealers and looked around, of course a salesman clamped onto me right away. I told them what I wanted and I would be buying as soon as I could find the right truck. As soon as they found out they didn't have want I wanted on the lot, they went cold, simply done with me. No interest in searching for a vehicle from one of their other dealerships. I started looking on the internet, followed up by making phone calls, still no help. A couple salesman offered to search for me, they still haven't called back.
I finally got a hold of one salesman that earned his keep. I called, told him what I wanted, when I would be buying and he e-mailed me a half hour later with one option. I told him it was close, but not quite. Another half hour later he sent me another option. It looked good, he shot me a price, it was good too and I bought the truck. I was tied up for a couple days and the dealer was 80 miles away. He brought the truck to me along with the paper work and we finished the sale on my time. I had a buddy looking for a truck, and I sent him to that same salesman, he bought a truck from him too. My buddy said he was impressed! The salesman texted me right after and thanked me for sending my friend his way and said he owed me a tank of fuel. Where do you think I am going next time I need a vehicle?
I bought a new Ford F150 Lariat last fall. I stopped at a couple dealers and looked around, of course a salesman clamped onto me right away. I told them what I wanted and I would be buying as soon as I could find the right truck. As soon as they found out they didn't have want I wanted on the lot, they went cold, simply done with me. No interest in searching for a vehicle from one of their other dealerships. I started looking on the internet, followed up by making phone calls, still no help. A couple salesman offered to search for me, they still haven't called back.
I finally got a hold of one salesman that earned his keep. I called, told him what I wanted, when I would be buying and he e-mailed me a half hour later with one option. I told him it was close, but not quite. Another half hour later he sent me another option. It looked good, he shot me a price, it was good too and I bought the truck. I was tied up for a couple days and the dealer was 80 miles away. He brought the truck to me along with the paper work and we finished the sale on my time. I had a buddy looking for a truck, and I sent him to that same salesman, he bought a truck from him too. My buddy said he was impressed! The salesman texted me right after and thanked me for sending my friend his way and said he owed me a tank of fuel. Where do you think I am going next time I need a vehicle?
Last edited:
I would buy vehicles more frequently if the experience was like yours with the F-150. As it is, the process of purchasing is such a hassle and aggravation, I buy and hold for as long as reasonably possible to avoid having to go back. The industry loses a lot of sales due to how the purchasing experience usually transpires.
lee
Debbie's Servant
Heard similar stories plenty of times.
gregfeeler
Dances With Sheep
On the other hand, you can buy cars and trucks completely on-line and your new ride will be delivered to your do. Carvana is one such company. They even have car "vending machines". https://www.carvana.com/
Like several here, I don't buy new very often and I maintain my vehicles and keep them a very long time. I bought the Mk IV Jetta I have now new, but almost didn't. The first salesperson I spoke with would *not* give me a straight answers to two key questions. I didn't need to buy anything at the time - just wanted to - so I stopped returning his calls. About three days later, the guy who sold my fiend a new car at the same time called me to say he's been assigned to me and then asked what did I need? I told him I wanted and less than an hour later he called back with answers - good answers - and I picked up the car the next day. So he saved the sale from them, but only because he was smart enough to ask me what I needed to know to make a decision, then he listened and did it. You'd think...but you'd be wrong in so many cases.
When I close my vehicles door at a dealership, they come a runnin’. “What can I do to earn your business today” is the cry. My response varies but goes something like- “I didn’t know they had car hop service..... do you have hand-battered onion rings”?
OM
OM
pglaves
#13338
When I close my vehicles door at a dealership, they come a runnin’. “What can I do to earn your business today” is the cry. My response varies but goes something like- “I didn’t know they had car hop service..... do you have hand-battered onion rings”?
OM
I will have to remember this. I love it.
pglaves
#13338
There is no IQ test to become a car salesman.
gregfeeler
Dances With Sheep
In my opinion, it's a culture problem. The great management guru Peter Drucker famously said, "Culture eats strategy for breakfast." Your culture can be a very powerful thing, and in my view of the Harley world (company, dealers, and riders) it is *VERY* strong, which helps explain how they have survived over a hundred years (despite some really dumb decisions), and gown like crazy over the last 30 or 40 years (with some very good management). It also explains why millions of people who have never ridden a Harley (and never will) pay premium money to wear Harley logoed clothing. The faithful Harley riders will never, ever give up.
Drucker is saying that if your strategy isn't aligned with and supported by your culture, it is going to be very difficult - if not impossible - for your strategy to succeed. It has nothing to do with how good the strategy is, or how essential it is. The Buel in a Harley shop stores are a great example. In my opinion, just about all of the new products Harley needs to survive will be spit out by the Harley culture (dealers especially) like tofu. The Harley culture is why they are alive today, and yet may be the very reason they diminish. As a side note, I have a very similar view of a (once) very large Eurobike owner's group which is also in decline.
I like simple things. I guy I once knew used to say, “If a customer comes in and wants a blue suit, sell him a blue suit”.
Training a customer to go somewhere else is tough on the bottom line.
OM
Good call, Omega Man.
"I want to buy a motorcycle that I can make loud and obnoxious, that doesn't accelerate, handle or stop like a motorcycle should, that makes me think I'm something I'm not, and that pisses off the general public when I ride by. In black. Got any of those?"
