2007 R1200RT Just returned from a 1,500 mile trip. Road through heavy rains. Bike ran perfect. Went on a 200 miler today and about 20 miles out bike would act up above 1/3 throttle, lose power, hesitate, back off throttle a bit and it would accelerate as normal. At times problem seemed to disappear. First impression was water in fuel. Stopped and dumped some Startron in tank, ran tank down below quarter tank and filled with fresh fuel. There were times when the rpms were up I could go full throttle and it would respond and other times more than 1/3 throttle and would crap out. Came home and put the GS-911 on it and no fault codes. Any suggestions? Think I'll install a new set of plugs and see if that helps but I doubt it.
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Breaks up above 1/3 throttle, No fault codes
- Thread starter D.Ed
- Start date
deilenberger
A bozo on the bus
Those are symptoms that could point to worn plugs. Experience - about 40 years ago - taught me that.
OK put the top 2 plugs in, did not have time to remove the plastic to do the bottom 2. Plugs looked fine. Started bike, seemed to idle a little rough. When I pulled out on the road gave it some throttle and it crapped out a bit. Went down the road till the temp came up and grabbed a hand full. It stuttered, farted, popped and took off. Ran perfect after that. About 15 miles came home idle is smooth now. WTF I don't have an explanation but all is back to normal now. Just hope it lasts.
lkraus
New member
I once had similar symptoms that occurred after a fill-up at rundown station, so I blamed bad gas. Ran OK at lower rpm, but lost power under load. I could get up to speed but power dropped around 3500-4000 rpm. Replaced gas, tried various miracle fuel treatments, no joy, but once in a while it would accelerate normally. Actually turned out to be a loose wire to an upper coil.
The bike runs on all four coils at low rpm, but at higher rpm and load, the timing on the lower coils shifts until they fire well after TDC. For better emissions, I think. With one upper coil not working, and no contribution from the lower coils, I was essentially running on a single spark plug. If your connections are good, you may have a bad coil. Unfortunately, there is no way to test a coil other than swapping with a known good coil.
From a press release announcing the R1200 engine: Featured in all BMW Boxers since 2003 (with the exception of the 850cc power units), dual ignition has been further modified and improved on the R1200GS. The auxiliary spark plug is now arranged at the outer edge of the cylinder, the ignition timing of both plugs being freely programmable as a function of load and engine speed in order to further optimise running smoothness, emission management, and fuel economy. Referred to as "phase shift", this adjustment process is maintained consistently all the way from part load to full load.
In practice, this means different ignition timing points on both spark plugs in defined control map areas. When approaching full load, where dual ignition no longer provides any benefits, the phase shift effect is so large that the spark crosses over on the auxiliary plug in the expansion cycle (60 degrees at TDC). For all practical purposes this corresponds to single ignition on the central spark plug under full load.
The bike runs on all four coils at low rpm, but at higher rpm and load, the timing on the lower coils shifts until they fire well after TDC. For better emissions, I think. With one upper coil not working, and no contribution from the lower coils, I was essentially running on a single spark plug. If your connections are good, you may have a bad coil. Unfortunately, there is no way to test a coil other than swapping with a known good coil.
From a press release announcing the R1200 engine: Featured in all BMW Boxers since 2003 (with the exception of the 850cc power units), dual ignition has been further modified and improved on the R1200GS. The auxiliary spark plug is now arranged at the outer edge of the cylinder, the ignition timing of both plugs being freely programmable as a function of load and engine speed in order to further optimise running smoothness, emission management, and fuel economy. Referred to as "phase shift", this adjustment process is maintained consistently all the way from part load to full load.
In practice, this means different ignition timing points on both spark plugs in defined control map areas. When approaching full load, where dual ignition no longer provides any benefits, the phase shift effect is so large that the spark crosses over on the auxiliary plug in the expansion cycle (60 degrees at TDC). For all practical purposes this corresponds to single ignition on the central spark plug under full load.
Gremlin returned
Bike ran fine for weeks. Left for south eastern Ohio on Monday and took a spare coil along just in case. Bike ran great first 300 miles then started acting up. Breaks up if I give it to much throttle to quickly. If I back off the throttle will clear up and go. If I just crack the throttle can accelerate up through the gears and get down the road with just a very slight surging and occasional hesitation. If I go full throttle it just falls on it's face, stutters, almost like a rev limiter, and will not pick up until I back off the throttle. I put the new coil in the left side and it ran perfectly for another 100 miles. Stopped for gas and on the restart idled rough but then cleared up. Went down the road and it's back to the same poor running. Took the coil I took off and put it in the right side and it ran even worse. If I don't go over 1/4 throttle I can get down the road just fine with a slight surging and occasional hesitation. I rode it home like that and a times felt fine till I opened the throttle to quickly. If I get into it slowly will run up fine. GS911 shows no fault codes, that pisses me off, what good is it. I was planning on going to a friends memorial service on next Saturday in Michigan. Need to get this fixed. The only thing I did notice was while on the GS-911 the battery voltage dropped a little below 12. Was at 12.5 sitting. 14.5 running. Any suggestions?
Bike ran fine for weeks. Left for south eastern Ohio on Monday and took a spare coil along just in case. Bike ran great first 300 miles then started acting up. Breaks up if I give it to much throttle to quickly. If I back off the throttle will clear up and go. If I just crack the throttle can accelerate up through the gears and get down the road with just a very slight surging and occasional hesitation. If I go full throttle it just falls on it's face, stutters, almost like a rev limiter, and will not pick up until I back off the throttle. I put the new coil in the left side and it ran perfectly for another 100 miles. Stopped for gas and on the restart idled rough but then cleared up. Went down the road and it's back to the same poor running. Took the coil I took off and put it in the right side and it ran even worse. If I don't go over 1/4 throttle I can get down the road just fine with a slight surging and occasional hesitation. I rode it home like that and a times felt fine till I opened the throttle to quickly. If I get into it slowly will run up fine. GS911 shows no fault codes, that pisses me off, what good is it. I was planning on going to a friends memorial service on next Saturday in Michigan. Need to get this fixed. The only thing I did notice was while on the GS-911 the battery voltage dropped a little below 12. Was at 12.5 sitting. 14.5 running. Any suggestions?
Sounds like a fuel delivery issue
There is not a fuel filter, but is a screen on fuel pump pickup. With the shape of the RT tank, it's hard to get all contaminants including water out of it without removing fuel pump unit and tank itself.Strange it comes and goes, but having to slow roll the throttle sounds like starvation in some form.
On the fuel additives, was HEET tried? Supposed to absorb and help pass some water...but not all.
I had a GS here that was parked for three years with partial tank, it had a lot of water in the spoiled gas and destroyed everything not plastic in tank. The fuel lines on pump are bendable plastic corrugated pieces and the ones in this tank were brittle to touch and no way could deliver fuel. The Oilheads rubber U-bend would split in tank and these 1220XX internal hoses seem suspect to damage after time to me as well.
One other question is which triangle FPC unit is on the fuel pump plate. Silver-old, Black anodized- newer style.Typically when fail, the fuel pump just will not run, so an ailing one who knows?
Water pools in that pump well on RT and GS models and corrodes until leaks, killing unit.
I have had bad stick coils and not the same effects to me. The GS911 has never helped with status of those for me as well. It's a good tool for a lot of issues...fuel and spark not so much from my experience
Voltage running looks good
There is not a fuel filter, but is a screen on fuel pump pickup. With the shape of the RT tank, it's hard to get all contaminants including water out of it without removing fuel pump unit and tank itself.Strange it comes and goes, but having to slow roll the throttle sounds like starvation in some form.
On the fuel additives, was HEET tried? Supposed to absorb and help pass some water...but not all.
I had a GS here that was parked for three years with partial tank, it had a lot of water in the spoiled gas and destroyed everything not plastic in tank. The fuel lines on pump are bendable plastic corrugated pieces and the ones in this tank were brittle to touch and no way could deliver fuel. The Oilheads rubber U-bend would split in tank and these 1220XX internal hoses seem suspect to damage after time to me as well.
One other question is which triangle FPC unit is on the fuel pump plate. Silver-old, Black anodized- newer style.Typically when fail, the fuel pump just will not run, so an ailing one who knows?
Water pools in that pump well on RT and GS models and corrodes until leaks, killing unit.
I have had bad stick coils and not the same effects to me. The GS911 has never helped with status of those for me as well. It's a good tool for a lot of issues...fuel and spark not so much from my experience
Voltage running looks good
I installed the newer black FPC last year even though the old silver one looked fine. Ran a whole bottle of Techron injector cleaner through it with a healthy dose of of Startron fuel stabilizer. No change. Just went to local BMW dealer and was told 2 weeks before they could scan it. Don't know if there scan tool would show more or not. Fuel pump ran fine on the GS 911 test. First time in 50 some years of riding I asked a dealer to look at something for me. Will try some Heat and pull pastic to look at FPC. On the tank vent test I only heard one slight clunk. Is that normal?
Put a half bottle of HEET in a half tank of fuel. Ran it a bit. No change. Found this. http://forum.hexcode.co.za/forum/index.php/topic,813.0.html Got a second new coil and installed it with new plugs. So I have new coils on both sides now. Actually ran a little better, seems like I can pick up the throttle further before it craps out but still not right. Plugs looked lean to me, especially right side, It did pop in the right side when it was crapping out and I backed of the throttle. Having tuned carburetor Harleys my whole life they always look lean to me but right side was definitely leaner. Ran it with the fuel cap open to eliminate any vent problem to no avail. Off to look at the FPC now.
If you are going to have a look at your Fuel Pump Controller, the Late Racer7 left us with some great info on the goings on-
https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?55047-Everything-you-wanted-to-know
On of the non-scientific things I do in these cases is, using a spray-bottle at night (in the dark) and "mist" the plugs, coils, wires and look for a bit of an electrical storm.
Good luck.
Gary
https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?55047-Everything-you-wanted-to-know
On of the non-scientific things I do in these cases is, using a spray-bottle at night (in the dark) and "mist" the plugs, coils, wires and look for a bit of an electrical storm.
Good luck.
Gary
Great article on the FPC. Everthing was clean and dry in there as it was when I replaced the FPC last year. Surprising after all the rain I was in this year. Need to sit down and have a coffee and think about it a bit. Don't know where to go from here. If it wasn't for this I would be headed up the Mississippi right now into Wisconsin. Sigh Maybe I'll do a canisterectomy but I don't think that would help since it didn't improve with the fuel cap open. I'll see how dark I can get it in the shop and get the spray bottle out.
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Sounds like trying to get a dr.appt these days on the two week thing
There is a thread roger 04rt has going in Oilheads with a fuel pressure guage set up with QC to match up with bikes. It was a way to check if u-hose was split in Oilhead tanks and rule out pressure/delivery problems
I'll look for it and add.
The GS911 test shows if it runs, wonder about pressure to injectors is coming off pump. The lean condition isn't pressure related I know, but, are you getting good streams at them? On the injectors, are the signal connectors seated fully?
The single click on tank venting test sounds right.
There is a thread roger 04rt has going in Oilheads with a fuel pressure guage set up with QC to match up with bikes. It was a way to check if u-hose was split in Oilhead tanks and rule out pressure/delivery problems
I'll look for it and add.
The GS911 test shows if it runs, wonder about pressure to injectors is coming off pump. The lean condition isn't pressure related I know, but, are you getting good streams at them? On the injectors, are the signal connectors seated fully?
The single click on tank venting test sounds right.
On anything but RT's of course, you can pull injector out of TB and aim injector into a catch jar easily as you can get to them without removing side panels. It will allow you to check for fuel spray at least. Won't confirm volume at higher RPM, but will confirm the injector is at least spraying and consistent side to side.
Don't have an RT here so going by memory that you can't see any of the connectors , electrical and fuel line.
Your definitely getting a connection to the injector with clicking noise during test.Was just curious if electrical connector to top of injector snapped fully in place at wire bail clip and was just sitting there making light intermittent contact.
Finally found problem. It's a bad connector on the coil. I had both top coils laying on the cylinder heads with other plugs in and engine running watching the spark on both sides. I picked up left side coil to move it and spark disappeared. Wiggled the wire and it came back. That's why problem came and went. I looked at these suckers before but I guess when I put it back in it moved the wire just enough to lose contact. Don't know if I can repair this connector, it looks pretty fragile. Wonder where I can get a new one on a Sunday. Maybe a standard automotive part?
After cleaning it with contact cleaner and a close inspection this plug is shot. The plastic is cracked and all 3 pins are corroded through. Looks like the rubber seal was damaged and water got in there rotted the connectors. Don't know if BMW will have a replacement plug or not. Wonder if I could get one from someone who parts out wrecks. Any ideas?
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