Is it safe to tour in the States?

BlueWaterCooled · Nov 12, 2017

36654 said:
The strange thing is.......The Canadian Plains (Manitoba to Alberta) have the highest homicide rates in Non-aboriginal Canada.

In relative terms, a Canadian visiting the US is elevating their level of risk (homicide) by a factor of 3x. That's the same relative increase in risk that a US citizen takes when visiting Mexico.

I don't know where those numbers come from, but I have about half a million miles riding in the US and about 20 thousand kilometers riding in Mexico with no issues in either country. Mexico is more pleasant because there is less traffic on both the cuotas (turnpikes) and libres (back roads). You do have to be more cautious in Mexico because the road surfaces can be in bad shape, and topes (speed bumps) are ubiquitous when passing through populated areas.

For my money, there is nothing in the world to compare to riding the deserts and mountains of northwestern Mexico and the southwestern US.

36654 · Nov 12, 2017

BlueWaterCooled said:
I don't know where those numbers come from, but I have about half a million miles riding in the US and about 20 thousand kilometers riding in Mexico with no issues in either country. Mexico is more pleasant because there is less traffic on both the cuotas (turnpikes) and libres (back roads). You do have to be more cautious in Mexico because the road surfaces can be in bad shape, and topes (speed bumps) are ubiquitous when passing through populated areas.

For my money, there is nothing in the world to compare to riding the deserts and mountains of northwestern Mexico and the southwestern US.

Will,

I'm not picking on Mexico, but illustrating a point. The numbers are compiled by the UN Office on Drugs & Crime and probably come from the respective country's federal crime agency (FBI in the case of the US). Just like I pick and choose where I go in any country (sometimes, good and bad are separated by one city block), I'm sure you're correct about Mexico.

In any part of America, be aware of aggressive/offensive drivers, folks with weapons and non-legitimate business districts. Outside of the suburban areas, your police support is thinly distributed state troopers. So, if you get yourself into trouble, be prepared to wait and hope that you have cell phone service.

greenwald · Nov 12, 2017

36654 said:
I would take off the helmet when the officer is standing in front of you and can watch you do it.

As I educate hundreds of new riders each year as a Lead RiderCoach in WI, I include a section on "appropriate behavior" when riding a motorcycle and stopped by law enforcement.

Here's a few hints that the OP could consider if he finds himself in that scenario while visiting America:

1. Pull over to the RIGHT and STOP. Turn the bike off. Put your flashers on.
2. Remain on the bike - if you get off, you'll be considered a flight risk.
3. Keep the helmet on until asked to remove it - a 4 lb. helmet in your hand is a potential weapon.
4. Keep hands visible as the officer approaches - on the grips or tank, but IN SIGHT.
5. Dismount when asked and place helmet on ground or on mirror. A modular still needs to come off for facial recognition.
6. Must carry a DL, Proof of Insurance and cycle registration.
7. Some states require you advise if carrying a concealed weapon - some do not. Either way, keep movements predictable and lacking suspicion.

Understand that in a country unlike Canada, where weapons are considerably more scarce, interaction with US law enforcement needs to be a more proactive partnership between the officer and the detainee. :usa

kurt_wahtera · Nov 12, 2017

Safe?

richardus said:
As a Canadian rider I try to put together some rough ideas for next years big bike tour, I am considering possibly going south of the border. Last year was Gaspe, which was great, so my options to top it are quite limited. If I head to the far north, well, just a lot of rocks and trees and bears, rainy weather and long, straight highways. East coast was just done so that would be rinse and repeat. West means either going through the States or heading on a trip much too far for the time and budget I have.

These BMW rider events sound like an interesting tour and destination, but there are some things I cannot help but consider.

You see, from up here all we see is a constant barrage of "bad news" about what's been going on down south. Shootings and gun obsession, racism, protests both left and right, political issues, bad cops, robberies and a whole lot of other craziness which just makes us outsiders pretty nervous about heading down there especially if it's our first time.

Can I get some feedback on any incidents you have had, any advice, or your experiences while crossing borders and heading into that wild west craziness down there?

I agree with those who say stay out of the cities, although with "local knowledge" you can see them too. I stay out of cities mostly to avoid the traffic and it's danger. With that said, some of the closest I've come to having a fatal crash have been in the country with hardly a car around. Once in Nova Scotia I hadn't seen a car for 5 or 10 minutes on a road along the coast. I came to an area where there were passing lanes on both sides of the road, so, I had four empty lanes.
I came around a curve in the right slow lane and found a car coming at me on my side of the road. I had to put my shoulder into the bushes to miss this guy, and I am sure I would be dead now if I was in a car. I think people who drive in the country don't pay anymore attention than city drivers.
BTW , I did the Gaspe' two summers ago and enjoyed it immensely, and will go back eventually. Interestingly, when I was planning the trip I found that parking lot security was often mentioned by hotel web sites. What does this say? I didn't have any problems, but, this info made me more aware, even though I was well away from big cities.
Also, my Gaspe trip was riding a C600 Sport.
I love to tour in Canada, they treat their tourists nice.

martyhill · Nov 12, 2017

greenwald said:
As I educate hundreds of new riders each year as a Lead RiderCoach in WI, I include a section on "appropriate behavior" when riding a motorcycle and stopped by law enforcement.

Here's a few hints that the OP could consider if he finds himself in that scenario while visiting America:

1. Pull over to the RIGHT and STOP. Turn the bike off. Put your flashers on.
2. Remain on the bike - if you get off, you'll be considered a flight risk.
3. Keep the helmet on until asked to remove it - a 4 lb. helmet in your hand is a potential weapon.
4. Keep hands visible as the officer approaches - on the grips or tank, but IN SIGHT.
5. Dismount when asked and place helmet on ground or on mirror. A modular still needs to come off for facial recognition.
6. Must carry a DL, Proof of Insurance and cycle registration.
7. Some states require you advise if carrying a concealed weapon - some do not. Either way, keep movements predictable and lacking suspicion.

Understand that in a country unlike Canada, where weapons are considerably more scarce, interaction with US law enforcement needs to be a more proactive partnership between the officer and the detainee.

All very good except for the helmet. Maybe my grey hair helps?

72r60/7 · Nov 12, 2017

Is it SAFE ..............

Absolutely !

In almost 50 years of exploring America (the USA part mostly) by the Two Wheeled version of "See the USA in Your Chevolet" I would not trade the sights, sounds, smells, and all the people encountered while roaming around locally and nationally on a motorbike.

95% of my time is spent solo or with my wife as pillion. You meet lots more people riding alone. Lots of years and miles and still at it.

Most crazies and thieves require the cover of darkness to ply their trade and they don't get up early in the day either.

Everyone is different and have different tastes etc., but I always go by the rule "When it stops being fun, don't do it"

I could have been more safe if I had stayed at home with a cat.

Charlie

ragtoplvr · Nov 12, 2017

A important thing to remember is in America the Media, News is for profit. You have to get people to watch to derive income from advertising. There are at least 2 ways to accomplish that, talent or fear. Talent is always in short supply. Fear is cheap and easy. Most news on the internet, tv, print is fear based. It is easy and profitable.

Remember to set your skepticism detector to maximum sensitivity.

The simple fact is, the US is safe and beautiful. So is Canada and Mexico. In all these places trouble can be found. Lots of good advice on this thread, and bars on the window is a good clue.

Watch less news, travel more. In cities Uber is a economical way to get around, and Uber drivers are a good source of information about what to see and where not go. Nice Uber drivers that provide good information deserve a good tip. 20% is my rule.

Rod

jammess · Nov 12, 2017

"A important thing to remember is in America the Media, News is for profit. You have to get people to watch to derive income from advertising. There are at least 2 ways to accomplish that, talent or fear. Talent is always in short supply. Fear is cheap and easy. Most news on the internet, tv, print is fear based. It is easy and profitable."

That's maybe why I watch only the PBS Newshour. Better than the sitcom so called newscasts on other stations. I used to have a Canadian satellite TV system and found the CBC newscasts informative and much less commercialized. But then the Canadians launched their spot beam satellites which meant reception especially hi-def was pretty much history a few miles south of the border. :violin

BC1100S · Nov 12, 2017

jammess said:
"A important thing to remember is in America the Media, News is for profit. You have to get people to watch to derive income from advertising. There are at least 2 ways to accomplish that, talent or fear. Talent is always in short supply. Fear is cheap and easy. Most news on the internet, tv, print is fear based. It is easy and profitable."

That's maybe why I watch only the PBS Newshour. Better than the sitcom so called newscasts on other stations. I used to have a Canadian satellite TV system and found the CBC newscasts informative and much less commercialized. But then the Canadians launched their spot beam satellites which meant reception especially hi-def was pretty much history a few miles south of the border.

Sirius XM channel 169.

exgman · Nov 12, 2017

BC1100S said:
As many have mentioned, try to stay away from the big cities as the traffic can quickly ruin a good day of riding. Except Boston. I love Boston.

Oh Gee! No more tourists in cars please! Motorcycles can do well from 10AM to 2PM during the week, and most any time on the weekends. There are opportunities for filtering, but not lane-splitting.

shortythorne · Nov 12, 2017

Safe to tour in the States?

Absolutely!

BCKRider · Nov 13, 2017

shortythorne said:
Absolutely, just don't attend church!

Or country music festivals, or... OK, I don't trust statistics (especially about the number of people killed or injured on US roads, or the number of people killed or injured by guns in the US.) Some suspect figures I saw on a TV show tonight: "32,115 people die annually in the US from gun violence." "19,992 people commit suicide." (No mention of how many shot themselves, or whether those that did were included in the first figure.) "11,294 people are murdered." (Again, no mention how many were murdered with a gun - there are a number of other methods.) "561 were killed unintentionally - presumably with a gun." Oh yeah, they forgot to say with these very precise figures whether that was in 2016, an average over the last ten years, or what.

But let's suspend our disbelief over the numbers and say yes "probably 30,000+ people die on US roads each year and 30,000+ people die from gun shot wounds." An awful lot more survive both debilitating injuries which are painful and expensive from both.

If you are a Canadian who wants to tour the US on your bike, the biggest threat to your life is other motorists and, of course, yourself if you like to push the envelope.

Americans who are poor and have a black or brown skin color are in much more danger. If they use or sell drugs, they will likely never collect any old age pensions. While the mass shootings are horrific, the odds of being a victim are miniscule.

Omega Man · Nov 13, 2017

We really need to keep this thread on track and remember that it’s intent was safe travel in the us. The thread has had some relevant points along with reminders on how best to behave when you are a guest or visitor during a trip
The Mod Team

greenwald · Nov 13, 2017

The admonition from Omega Man was both predictable and relevant. "Stay on task with responses" is the golden rule for all threads.

But Doug's most recent post is also quite relevant. It speaks of handling statistics with extreme vetting, so that they are distilled into something meaningful. Quite true.

He also acknowledges race and economic status as factors in those statistics - also relevant.

And he cautions that for the OP, the biggest threat is most likely his interaction with American motorists. No argument there. Our lack of dedication to driving with precision and our voracious thirst for electronic distractions make our roads at best, an obstacle course, and at worst, a rolling cemetery.

For Canadians visiting, simply be very aware of your surroundings when in motion, as most motorists are committing various traffic violations and law enforcement spread so thin that relying on them to maintain order is a false security.

Confine recreation, overnight lodging, meals and sightseeing to popular areas that seem safe - they probably will be.

Take precautions to prevent theft or vandalism to your bike, and enjoy your visit. Lots to see in this great nation.

Be aware that our current national media has lost all journalistic credibility, and now consists of 'opinionated news stories,' and whatever sells commercial time - follow the money. It is driven by financial goals rather than truthful ones. For that, I apologize to you. Try not to believe most of what you are hearing, and trust that the USA offers much to the motorcycle-touring adventurer.

I view Canada the same way, insomuch as I don't fret over stories of hummingbird-sized mosquitos, grizzlies around every bend in the road and a dislike of American tourists. Have been to your country more than once, and always enjoyed the experience.

Now come on down to ours, and have a good tour. :usa

ncpbmw1953 · Nov 13, 2017

greenwald said:
The admonition from Omega Man was both predictable and relevant. "Stay on task with responses" is the golden rule for all threads......Be aware that our current national media has lost all journalistic credibility, and now consists of 'opinionated news stories,' and whatever sells commercial time - follow the money. It is driven by financial goals rather than truthful ones.

Oh I see, as long as one acknowledges the moderators' admonitions it's fine to go on w/ political spin on what is happening--I'll try that next time and see how it goes, thanks.

36654 · Nov 13, 2017

ncpbmw1953 said:
Oh I see, as long as one acknowledges the moderators' admonitions it's fine to go on w/ political spin on what is happening--I'll try that next time and see how it goes, thanks.

All else is lies. I am the truth and the light.

That's pretty simple.

shortythorne · Nov 13, 2017

Edited what I could...didn't mean to start anything. Crawling back in my hole :uhoh

.

sdpc2 · Nov 13, 2017

i have to say that the OP's question actually saddens me

the fact that someone who lives not so close to our country gets the impression from the media only goes to show how screwed up the media and information that is conveyed really is.

I try to believe that most people are inherently good. The stories that I have read on various motorcycle sites generally confirms that belief. Of course, we all know that there is a part of society that has no respect for others... (way too many examples can be given). And those are the horrible things that are written about, talked about, and aired on tv. My reality is that as long as you don't go out of your way to find trouble, and take normal precautions, that you will have a wonderful time traveling on your motorcycle. And fact, you might find that people stop to talk and ask you about being so far from home once they see your license plate... not look to cause you trouble.

I hope that you make the trip and get the chance to experience our wonderful country. There is a lot to see, and many awesome people to meet.

Kind regards,

sdc

akbeemer · Nov 13, 2017

The fact is that in the USA if you are not a young man of color who lives in a city and you are not involved in the illicit drug trade or in a gang, then your chances of being a victim of a violent crime are very low. It is a sad commentary on the culture in our major cities. Here in Montana a significant part of violent crime is associated with meth users and/or the native reservations. Again, sad......

BCKRider · Nov 13, 2017

akbeemer said:
The fact is that in the USA if you are not a young man of color who lives in a city and you are not involved in the illicit drug trade or in a gang, then your chances of being a victim of a violent crime are very low. It is a sad commentary on the culture in our major cities. Here in Montana a significant part of violent crime is associated with meth users and/or the native reservations. Again, sad......

I moved to Canada from the US in 1970 and am glad I did. That does not mean my adopted country is paradise on earth - at least not for all of its citizens. If you are a tourist visiting Canada from the US, expect to find just as much "distracted driving" here as at home. Very similar laws, very similarly ignored.

We have the same "opioid crisis" everywhere, illicit drug trade gangs in the cities, homeless people. Perhaps fewer guns per capita. Not saying that life is a bed of roses for everyone with a brown or black skin, but in Canada it is the indigenous people who have been hardest hit and perhaps more women than men. While I have to say that Canada is trying to improve their lot, the fact is many indigenous people still experience racism as a daily fact of life. That is also sad.

Guess any comment on the number of asylum seekers our two countries take in from places far worse in this world would be too political. But do give it some thought.

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