Final drive failure what to watch for

I recently purchased a 2004 R1150rt with 13k on it. I see a lot of discussion about the final drive failure and wonder if there is anything specifically to watch for or be proactive about. My old K1100lt never had an issue, period. It's got me a little nervous.

Thanks

Things aren't as bad as you think. Keep in mind that folks whose rear drives haven't failed rarely post about how they haven't had trouble - online discussions tend to focus on those who have had difficulties. Many of us have motored hundreds of thousands of miles without difficulty.

Still, there are failures. The easiest diagnostic is to put the bike on the centerstand, grasp the rear tire at 9 and 3 o'clock, and push on one hand and pull on the other, as if trying to rotate the tire around an imaginary vertical axis. Then reverse. Then repeat both the pull-push and push-pull at 12 and 6 o'clock.

There should be no wiggles. If there are, investigate further or get the bike to a mechanic. It might be loose pivot bearings, but it might be rear end troubles. If oil's dripping, then the bearing seal may have failed; if so, the bearing itself will follow shortly.

pivot bearings usually show up as play at 3 & 9, whille FD issues are more commonly found at 12 & 6 play.
Pivot bearings, unless periodically adjusted (easy DIY), typically die somewhere north of 20K (rare to go beyond 50K, but that is about the outside end of life).
FDs are less predictable. Mine has 82K on it, and have only had a seal go bad on my FD. And 3 sets of pivot bearings. Now i have the bushings.

mschultz said:

I recently purchased a 2004 R1150rt with 13k on it. I see a lot of discussion about the final drive failure and wonder if there is anything specifically to watch for or be proactive about. My old K1100lt never had an issue, period. It's got me a little nervous.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Ours failed w/o warning (Crown bearing) at 48k mi. on a 48/10 ride. They are very sensitive to the preload adjustment. Had no play prior to failure, changed fluid every 6-10k. Replacement is at40k w/ no issues, bike at 88k with only other time being stranded a dead fuel pump at 80k on the way home from the Iron Butt Rally.

signs

I noticed a slight vibration in the footpegs at 50-70 mph. Not huge, just something different. I did not check for looseness for it failed about 200 miles later.

If they are sensitive to preload adjustment, any tips on getting it right.

Wouldn't worry much about it really. Change the fluid every 20,000 miles and watch for any metal flakes. Check for play at the rear wheel, with the bike on the centerstand, rear wheel off the ground, grab the wheel at 3 and 9, and twist. Watch for play/motion around the area of the hub closest to the parts not moving. Slight play is normal.

I have over 154,000 on my 94 RS, still on the original final drive. It gives no indication of excessive play or noise.

mschultz said:

If they are sensitive to preload adjustment, any tips on getting it right.

Click to expand...

This video shows one way to do it, it's 38 min ->
http://www.bmwlt.com/uploads/lt_final_drive_rebuild.wmv

Ignore the horse in the first few seconds

Change the oil frequently - not because it needs new lube but because you can then find any sign of debris in the oil. That is the best early warning. You will find signs of debris long before you can detect movement wiggling the wheel.

Wiggling the wheel is your second line of defense.

If you are truly heading off to see the world, or absolutely don't want your two week vacation jeopardized then take it off, send it to Tom Cutter and have him check it and set it up perfectly. Then stop worrying about ti.

Perhaps a bit off topic, but I have a related question...

Ride an '04 R1100S, with the standard suspension. Many other S riders recommend installing a GS style Paralever link to increase the rear ride height and quicken the steering a bit. I've noticed that bikes so modified have a less acute angle between the paralever and FD housing.

Just curious if that "straighter" angle might help reduce some of the strain on the pinion bearing and seal? Seems to me that might help a smidge...

Thanks for any feedback offered!

Cheers!

PS. And yes, my pinion seal is leaking!

SeabeckS said:

Perhaps a bit off topic, but I have a related question...

Ride an '04 R1100S, with the standard suspension. Many other S riders recommend installing a GS style Paralever link to increase the rear ride height and quicken the steering a bit. I've noticed that bikes so modified have a less acute angle between the paralever and FD housing.

Just curious if that "straighter" angle might help reduce some of the strain on the pinion bearing and seal? Seems to me that might help a smidge...

Thanks for any feedback offered!

Cheers!

PS. And yes, my pinion seal is leaking!

Click to expand...

Most pinion seals seep a little. Few pinion bearings fail. The main failure is of the big deep groove ball bearing that carries the ring gear on the wheel side.

A more shallow driveline angle is easier on the U joints in some cases.

However, I doubt we can really out think BMW engineering on this one because I think changing the paralever arm makes the angle less acute at the transmission and more acute at the final drive which inherently puts the two U joints operate at different angles all the time, and thus out of phase more or less, all the time.

Hmmm...

Okay, that makes sense, but it does seem to me that the shorter p-arm lessens the angle at the FD end of the shaft. But, the angle reduction at one end must mean an angle increase at the other end of driveshaft? Guess I'll not worry about this too much, I am taking the bike in for a bit o'service work in the next month or so.

Have a longish trip planned in late August through eastern Oregon, northern Nevada, I'll make sure to have that pinion seal/bearing inspected well before that hot ride.

Thanks Paul!

PGlaves said:

Change the oil frequently - not because it needs new lube but because you can then find any sign of debris in the oil. That is the best early warning. You will find signs of debris long before you can detect movement wiggling the wheel.

Wiggling the wheel is your second line of defense.

If you are truly heading off to see the world, or absolutely don't want your two week vacation jeopardized then take it off, send it to Tom Cutter and have him check it and set it up perfectly. Then stop worrying about ti.

Click to expand...

How often would you call frequently?

mschultz said:

How often would you call frequently?

Click to expand...

Paul G has frequently stated that frequent FD/trans fluid changes are at 6K intervals, same as engine oil.

Excellent Video

jfremder said:

This video shows one way to do it, it's 38 min ->
http://www.bmwlt.com/uploads/lt_final_drive_rebuild.wmv

Ignore the horse in the first few seconds

Click to expand...

Just experienced FD issues on my 08 K12 GT with 27000 miles. This video is excellent. Thanks very much for posting.

mschultz said:

How often would you call frequently?

Click to expand...

I rely on drain plug inspections for the true condition of the bearings on my three oil heads and one K bike. If I'm planning a multi day trip I will drain the final drive oil into a clean container and inspect the plug. If no flakes are found I then clean and reinstall the plug and reuse the drained oil, takes about 15 minutes. I caught a failing bearing on my 2000 LT using this method.

Otherwise I drain, inspect and refill with fresh oil every 6K service... more often than the recommended 12k I know but it doesn't take much oil and its easy to do. Also, I use conventional 75W-90 gear oil instead of synthetic as I find it reduces seal seepage.

bikerfish1100 said:

pivot bearings usually show up as play at 3 & 9, whille FD issues are more commonly found at 12 & 6 play.
Pivot bearings, unless periodically adjusted (easy DIY), typically die somewhere north of 20K (rare to go beyond 50K, but that is about the outside end of life).
FDs are less predictable. Mine has 82K on it, and have only had a seal go bad on my FD. And 3 sets of pivot bearings. Now i have the bushings.

Click to expand...

My 2000 LT has 125,000 miles on the pivot bearings & my 2004 LT has over 190,000 miles on the pivot bearings. I clean & repack them every year. The out side wears more than the inside so I swap the races every time I repack them. I also buff the races with white rouge buffing compound in both directions on a buffing wheel.

When Mine died, I had left Dallas for the Redmond rally, I stopped in SLC and was examining the rear break master cylinder as it seemed if I was off the brakes for some large amount of time I would have to pump the rear break. Retrospect wheel was wobbling enough to bake the caliper off.
Gator in Dallas

My Final Drive Experience

mschultz said:

I recently purchased a 2004 R1150rt with 13k on it. I see a lot of discussion about the final drive failure and wonder if there is anything specifically to watch for or be proactive about. My old K1100lt never had an issue, period. It's got me a little nervous.

Thanks

Click to expand...

I purchased my 2002 R1150RT with just under 25000 miles. When purchased all fluids were clean. I was aware of the ABS and final drive issues. I have changed engine oil every 4000 miles and changed the final drive oil every second oil change. This spring (April) I found play in my pivot bearings and replaced the bearings. This June after a trip through Ontario and upstate New York I hit 61000 miles and thought that I had one of the final drives that was ok. Well 500 miles later I started hearing a grinding noise. I checked the final drive for play and I had some. I drained the final drive oil and there was plenty of bearing material on the drain plug magnet which never happened before. My bike is still down waiting its turn for final drive repair during peak riding time. This is a great bike for two up riding which my wife and I do a lot of. Based on my experience I would have sent my final drive to a well know shop with experience and all the BMW tools during the winter months and just had the set up checked and adjusted as needed. The only final drive oil I used was Castrol hypoid 80w 90 gear oil or the same in the Lucas brand. Good luck I hope your experience is better than mine!

Very Helpful Video

helga said:

Just experienced FD issues on my 08 K12 GT with 27000 miles. This video is excellent. Thanks very much for posting.

Click to expand...

Yes, thanks for posting. After watching this, I would say rebuilding the final drive is definitely within the reach of many do-it-yourselfers, but it's also well worth paying my local shop the hour of labor they quoted me to do it if I take the final drive off the bike and bring it to them