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What kind of oil do you use?
- Thread starter crossfire3006
- Start date
35634
Mars needs women!
I used to drain the $$$BMW oil out of my K and top off my oil guzzling 302 '71 Bronco with it. Now I'm tempted to use the Mobil One I drain out of my VW 1.8t and use it in the bike. My theory that as the motor gets older it gets less particular about the oil, so long as it has oil.
mpmarty
New member
Your Wal-Mart is better than mine then. Nothing but 5/20 and 10/30 and the containers are five quarts not gallons.
C
criminaldesign
Guest
Sounds exactly like Dad. He had this Chevy truck he would throw in the old oil from the heavy equipment at work. There was a 500 gallon tank of the thick black slop. It worked.
marchyman
Cam Killer
And as a friend learned the hard way... oil in the bike is better than oil in the tank bag.
osbornk
Old man in the mountains
When you have a motorcycle with a dry clutch, how does it make a difference? When you look at pistons, valves, bearings and other moving internal parts, you can't tell what kind of engine they are from. Besides, most of the changes to automotive oil are in the lighter "fuel saving" weights we don't use in motorcycles.
This reminds me of the dire predictions I heard when lead was eliminated from gasoline. Engines were predicted to wear out faster and give a lot of problems because lead was no longer going to be used. The results (once "some" manufacturers fixed their valve recession problem that most other manufacturers didn't seem to have) resulted in longer engine, plug life and exhaust system life.
PGlaves
#13338
Yes you can tell a BMW motorcycle engine from a car engine in at least one very important way. Most cars now, and for a number of years, have used roller followers for the camshaft(s). BMW motorcycles still use a sliding interface between the cam lobes and the followers. BMW motorcycle engines also have steeper cam lobe profiles and higher lift than many car engines.
This sliding/scuffing interface is susceptible to wear without sufficient ZDDP or other suitable anti-wear additives. The BMW engineers are rather insistent on this, having issued at least two stern service bulletins on the topic in which they state that SG rated oil or SH rated oil (with from 1200 to 1600 parts per million ZDDP) is necessary and that SJ or later formulations with 800 or less ppm is not sufficient.
Any owner/rider is free to believe that they know what they are talking about or not, your choice, but I happen to think following those recommendations is a good idea.
G
GIZMO
Guest
But Irv Gordon, who owns the famous 2,300,000 mile Volvo P 1800, uses dino oil.[/QUOTE]
Which seems like a good example, that it matters not what oil you use (other than specified viscosity etc.), but that you change the oil and filter at recommended intervals.
Which seems like a good example, that it matters not what oil you use (other than specified viscosity etc.), but that you change the oil and filter at recommended intervals.
akbeemer
SURVIVOR
classicvw
Active member
Mobil1 is the recommended oil in my '04 CLC and that's what I'll use, BUT... a few years ago I changed from dino oil to semi synthetic in my Dodge truck. It was 38 months old and only had 17,000 miles on it and was a passenger truck, not a work truck. Right after the switch, the cam gear disintegrated. How do I recall it was exactly 38 months old? The warranty was 36 months and the sons o' bitches at Dodge refused to cover it.
I'm a believer in dino oil changed regularly... but let me tell you about my sister's Buick LeSabre... 156,000 miles and never had an oil change. She asked me what she should do now? I advised her NOT to touch it now.
Rinty
New member
And Gordon is diligent on regular oil changes; if I recall the Classic Motorsports article correctly, every 5,000 miles.
A client of mine, who is a well know race and street engine builder, told me about a Corvette motor he had rebuilt: a small block that had not had an oil change for 25,000 miles. He said that almost none of the parts were re-usable. The thing was a leaker and the owner just kept topping the oil up.
For another client, he re built a big block Lincoln engine that had been run on synthetic without a change for about 50,000 miles. The main and connecting rod bearings were serviceable, but the cylinders had 90 thousandths of an inch of taper.
ANDYVH
New member
My 94 R1100RS has now passed 151,000 miles on it, almost all using Mobil 1 15W50 synthetic oil (my choice). I did at one time use Rotella-T Full Synthetic 10W-40, but was concerned about the 40w versus 50w rating in hot temps.
I just changed the oil recently, well about 1500 miles ago, and used Mobil 1 15W50 SM rated oil. I see above the reference to using SG service rated oil. So I went to the Mobil 1 site and found this bit of info:
"Using an SM-Rated Oil When an SG-Rating is Recommended
Question:
Using an SM-Rated Oil When an SG-Rating is Recommended
I just purchased a '92 Corvette and after changing the oil to Mobil 1 Extended Performance I noticed on the hood that it recommends an oil with the API rating of SG. After looking at the empty container it does not have this rating. Is this safe for my vehicle?
-- Larry Morgan, Auburndale, FL
Answer:
API ratings are backward compatible to previous generation ratings. This means that an API SM quality oil, which is the latest API rating, is recommended where API SL, SJ, SH, SG were originally required."
Granted, that's in a GM car engine with roller followers. API ratings may be backwards compatible, but is there still the issue with the additives? The label on the current Mobil 1 15W50 bottle says it contains anti-wear additives.
I just changed the oil recently, well about 1500 miles ago, and used Mobil 1 15W50 SM rated oil. I see above the reference to using SG service rated oil. So I went to the Mobil 1 site and found this bit of info:
"Using an SM-Rated Oil When an SG-Rating is Recommended
Question:
Using an SM-Rated Oil When an SG-Rating is Recommended
I just purchased a '92 Corvette and after changing the oil to Mobil 1 Extended Performance I noticed on the hood that it recommends an oil with the API rating of SG. After looking at the empty container it does not have this rating. Is this safe for my vehicle?
-- Larry Morgan, Auburndale, FL
Answer:
API ratings are backward compatible to previous generation ratings. This means that an API SM quality oil, which is the latest API rating, is recommended where API SL, SJ, SH, SG were originally required."
Granted, that's in a GM car engine with roller followers. API ratings may be backwards compatible, but is there still the issue with the additives? The label on the current Mobil 1 15W50 bottle says it contains anti-wear additives.
PGlaves
#13338
Andy, that is the API corporate line. Believe it if you wish. BMW doesn't agree. I won't go into my full diatribe about the EPA, required 7 year emissions warranties, big auto tired of replacing catalytic converters under that required warranty, and the API as an industry group bowing down to big auto. But it is a simple fact that BMW by service bulletin directly took issue with the API assertion that SJ or later ratings with reduced ZDDP was just as good as the earlier rating with twice as much ZDDP. In their words SJ and later ratings were insufficient, not better. Remember though that in 20W50 weights an oil can have more ZDDP than thinner oils and still meet both the SM and some previous ratings. But if they do they usually state this in the fine print on the bottle.
Since SG and SH ratings are readily available at reasonable cost: ie Castrol 4T Four Stroke Motorcycle oil is rated as meeting SG (1600ppm ZDDP) and plain old ordinary Castrol GTX in 20W50 meets SM and SH too (1200 ppm ZDDP), why not meet BMW's spec. Both of these oils, as well as Valvoline MC oil in 20W50 meet BMWs spec and can be bought at Auto Zone, O'Reilly, and other places. I have seen lab tests that showed at least one Mobil 1 oil (I forget which) with 1200 ppm ZDDP which would meet BMW's insistence on SG or SH levels of ZDDP.
It fundamentally comes down to the question, "how good do you want your parachute to be?". ZDDP is a lubricant of last resort intended to protect when the lubricant film between metal parts breaks down or is too thin to provide needed lubrication or cushioning. ZDDP is only important when you need it the most. So how good do you want that parachute to be?
ANDYVH
New member
Thanks Paul for that detailed and specific response. After reading that, and doing more online research I see that I need to rethink what I put in my bike, especially since I plan to ride this bike at least to 200,000 miles. Especially given that most of the rotating parts in the Oilhead rely totally on that thin film of oil between the moving and non-moving parts.
Most of the miles on my RS have been lubricated on Mobil 1. But I'm guessing the the 20W50 Mobil 1 I recall from years ago is far different than the 15W50 Mobil 1 of today. Hopefully, those many years of running oils rich with ZDDP have protected the engine up to now with the non-equivalent oils of today. So I'm going back to the SG specific rated oils. Like the similar load ratings of final drive oil being as important if not more so than the viscosity rating. Can I apply the SG rating of a motor oil as actually more important than the viscosity rating itself?
If so, I may better off, cost wise, and engine protection wise, using Shell Rotella T synthetic 5W40 versus Mobil 1 synthetic 15W50. 5W versus 15W only applies in cold temps, and 5W will actually flow better than 15W. So long as the 40W high temp rating is sufficient in place of the 50W rating, given the better ZDDP protection of the 5W40 Shell oil.
Most of the miles on my RS have been lubricated on Mobil 1. But I'm guessing the the 20W50 Mobil 1 I recall from years ago is far different than the 15W50 Mobil 1 of today. Hopefully, those many years of running oils rich with ZDDP have protected the engine up to now with the non-equivalent oils of today. So I'm going back to the SG specific rated oils. Like the similar load ratings of final drive oil being as important if not more so than the viscosity rating. Can I apply the SG rating of a motor oil as actually more important than the viscosity rating itself?
If so, I may better off, cost wise, and engine protection wise, using Shell Rotella T synthetic 5W40 versus Mobil 1 synthetic 15W50. 5W versus 15W only applies in cold temps, and 5W will actually flow better than 15W. So long as the 40W high temp rating is sufficient in place of the 50W rating, given the better ZDDP protection of the 5W40 Shell oil.
Last edited:
PGlaves
#13338
Look in your owners booklet or a service manual specific to your bike. It will have a viscosity chart showing minimum and maximum ambient temperatures for several different viscosities of oil. Go by that chart for viscosities.
Synthetic oil=better....
I do not care to waste my money! I do not care to waste my time! Synthetic oil is simply put better... end of story!
I do not care to waste my money! I do not care to waste my time! Synthetic oil is simply put better... end of story!
