New Airhead

gch71 · Mar 1, 2012

Gch71 said:
Get a loaner tranny, or loaner stock flywheel, and do an individual swap and test run, after seeing those pics of the flywheel I'm very surprised it hasn't come apart yet, I bet if you did an NDT inspection on it you'll be surprised...(none destructive type test) ie, dye penetrant or eddy current type of inspection. I don't know how it's not warping flexing etc under torsional loads etc. I can appreciate the lighted flywheel concept but I think this particular one was done by someone that was a little to ambitious, lacking technical thought of the consequences.

I really enjoyed seeing you go through all that meticulous work, bringing that beautiful machine back to its glory, my hats off to you. I can also understand your frustration, but at this point to eliminate any doubt as to what it is, I would like to see a loaner tranny in it, if I had it I would send it to you right now from Texas. :bolt

but for now Put the bike away,, go grab your favorite beverage, go sail for a while...Just go away and relax. A question to the airhead community, is the tranny compatible with another model, year? One that didn't have this known problem? I hate to see you spend a dollar more....but it is a labor of love.

mneblett · Mar 1, 2012

kmkahuna said:
For anyone who's trying to figure out the entire transmission thing to begin with: there are some great resources out there: I suggest taking a look at the animations at John Lawrence's site:
http://www.gadgetjq.com/transmission.htm

An excellent page. One notation: the 1150 tranny is mislabeled: the "Input Shaft" is actually the intermediate shaft; the input shaft is actually the smaller shaft immediately to the left of the person's left hand.

ISAMEMON · Mar 2, 2012

its always easy to 2nd guess and wrench from a distance.
But I too have suspected the swiss cheese flywheel and/or the shift forks
but Ii assume that the person doing the tranny knows.knew thier stuff, so first guess would then be swiss cheese

for me jumping out of gears, not lurching, was a sign of shift fork issues

lurching was a sign of clutch issues, in both cars and bikes
and although not real relvant to this situatoin, lurching in an automatic, is clutches or torque converter ( a kind of clutch)

what tools available now,
if you have a loaner tranny, ( as said earler) def worth a try. prob still there then it would show the flywheel assy

but if you have loaner of all parts, trans and clutch, I would not do em both,at the ame time, as it wont eliminate a thing other than to say, problem in one of em, which one

kmkahuna · Mar 5, 2012

Back in the Monday saddle: Thanks everyone for the good comments over the weekend: Lew, I'll try Mark's suggestion of holding the shift lever up on my way out to Dave Campbells this week, and mention the loaner tranny idea: if it still lurches with a different box in it, the only thing left to buy/replace is the flywheel!

I really never thought of the out-of-round flywheel thing as as issue, since none of the problems happen in any other gear..no other issues from the drive train.
Oh, but I remember that time-tested adage about looking for lost keys: They're in the last place you look.
So, my "strategery", thanks to you guys, is to put in a loaner box, and see if the problem goes away. If so, it's back to Mike at Motor Works Pro Machinery, and see if he can figure out what he missed.. If not, I will be in the market for an old flywheel, it seems...

Oh, and Glenn? I took your advice, spent the weekend in Westlake Village, riding the oilhead to Oxnard and shooting at the range. Balance restored...
Thanks again, everyone: as usual, the forum is just as important as any tool in the tool box...and it's free!
K

melville · Mar 6, 2012

Is there the least chance that you are draining the float bowls in first gear and then the shift to second is clunky enough to slosh what's left away from the main jet intermittently?

kmkahuna · Mar 7, 2012

Mark: One additional test to consider said:
Lmo1131 said:

Have you tried Mark's suggestion yet?

Click to expand...

Just finished another ride around the block and yes, Mark, the bike JUMPS out of gear when I hold the shift lever UP, but only in second gear. The other gears, the clutch is out, keep pressure applied going up, and the bike stays in gear. But in second, it pops out of gear immediately, the engine revs up, but no neutral light...

kmkahuna · Mar 11, 2012

Once more into the breech, dear friends

So there she sits, and the transmission is on it's way back to Mike at Motor Works in National City. I rode the bike about 120 miles yesterday and the shifter does not pop back up when I downshift. I have to use my toe to get it back up, so that's a new problem.
Mike has talked to me over the phone and I am not too confident he's going to be able to fix this problem, in that he has explained this lurching has occurred in a few other bikes, and he didn't know what to do about it.

Here is the plug after a complete transmission rebuild at Motor Works, and as I said, about 120 miles of riding.

My only real options at this point is:
- Hope Mike can diagnose and fix this problem, since that's what I paid him to do.
- A visit to Dave Campbell, since he rode the bike two days ago and seems to think it's dogs and the shift fork.
Man, I sure wish I could have made that transmission tech day last month, wasn't it?? This would have stumped some of the experts!

lmo1131 · Mar 11, 2012

Kurt, I think you forgot about Option 3: Ask for your money back! And then ship it to Ted Porter.

If Mike has admitted that, "he didn't know what to do about it." I wouldn't waste another minute on him...

After only 120 miles, that is a lot of metal.

- edit -

Option 4: To hell with getting your money back. But don't leave it with him...

kmkahuna · Mar 14, 2012

Pictures of 2nd gear

Shift Forks...

Dogs on 2nd gear:

One thing that deserves mentioning: my shift lever had a washer installed on it:
(in the picture, I have shift lever # 8.... Bolt # 10 had a washer on the backside, since it was originally installed that way by the P.O. When I rebuilt the bike, I didn't realize it did not need a washer, and the lever was binding a bit. )
Might that have caused a false neutral, or caused 2nd gear not to seat correctly?
Grasping at straws here... Mike at Motor Works doesn't know how to fix the transmission: he can't find anything wrong with it.
So: I have it at home now, taken apart, and will see if Dave Campbell can shed some light on it.

20774 · Mar 15, 2012

Nice pictures...I don't know squat but those parts look pretty good to me. I'd sure like to hear from people who have been inside these before...Anton was be a good one to offer some thoughts.

kmkahuna · Mar 30, 2012

Another 377$, 2nd gear still lurches

Well, Dave Campbell has had my transmission for a week or so, and he's replaced a few washers, and I believe another few 2nd gear parts, and he was very confident that 2nd gear would not jump out.
So after putting the bike back together, went for the test ride, and although the transmission feels butter now (very smooth upshift, downshifts, etc... 2nd gear still lurches.
Don't really know what to do anymore, gentlemen.
I never like to quit on something, but after 1100$, and two experts rebuilding the transmission, but I don't know what else to do, except just continue to hemorrhage money at the problem instead of riding the bike.
This is not what owning an airhead is all about.
You know what bikes have given me absolutely no problems, and are riders?
My hexhead.... and my oilhead.
I would not wish this experience on anyone out there. It has been the most frustrating, expensive problem I've ever faced.
Having vented all that, I will ride her around, take her back out to Dave's so he can ride it, and eventually pull it all down again and replace the flywheel, and see if that's the culprit.
Night all...

radar41 · Mar 30, 2012

Airhead Frustration

kmkahuna said:
You know what bikes have given me absolutely no problems, and are riders?
My hexhead.... and my oilhead.
I would not wish this experience on anyone out there. It has been the most frustrating, expensive problem I've ever faced.

Kurt,

There are a lot of us out here who have experienced the frustration you are going through. These ancient machines can make one almost "lose your religion" not to mention your sanity, and put a serious dent in you bank account! :doh

However, when they are running right - all positive forces in the universe align and life is GREAT!!

Hang in there, many of us are sending positive "Airhead Karma" your way. :bikes

barryg · Mar 30, 2012

First I want to say that I've enjoyed your thread. It really pains me to here about anyone having trouble with their tranmissions. I have a '74 R90/6 was a lot of miles on it. Back in '90 I took the bike apart for a economy resto. When I got the trans out, off the bike; bad news. Heavy clanking of loose metal parts banging around inside the housing. I knew right then that the econo part was over. I have a heavy background in machining, So I machined up the tools and cracked open the the trans . The loud clanking was 2 broken dogs off the cluster gear. I think back in '90 a good used one was $500. It was ahard hit on my pocketbook. The bike was shifting great, even with 2 broken dogs. I just couldn't put back together with 2 bad dogs. I coughed up the 5 big ones. I've also had that trans opened up another time to change out a couple of gears and bearings and add the heavier spring, again not cheap. I'm fortunate that I have a personal friend who is a BMW specialist, who does not charge me labor. I've already paid him in machinist work. Just wanted you to know that I've been there and had my problems , I know it's not fun. Good luck getting your bike back together and enjoying the riding part, which is really what it's all about. Barry

beemeruss · Mar 31, 2012

Flywheel

kmkahuna said:
pull it all down again and replace the flywheel, and see if that's the culprit.
...

Kurt,if you are going to change the flywheel and don't yet have one, try Moto Bins.They have a smokin' deal on new ones for about $65.I bought one for my '78 R100RS that I will use to replace the Swiss cheese wheel next spline lube.Hang in there!
Russ

kmkahuna · Apr 2, 2012

So just ride it.... :rofl

radar41 · Apr 2, 2012

Just ride it

So no doubt it was a terrible experience?? :whistle

kmkahuna · Apr 10, 2012

Radar41 said:
So no doubt it was a terrible experience??

Uphill... (sniff sniff..) both ways... in the snow!

samthg · Apr 10, 2012

kmkahuna said:
So just ride it....

Montezuma Grade, if I ain't mistaken...

lachsmith · Jan 5, 2016

Hey everyone, it's been a few years since this post went dormant but I wanted to enquire about the resolution (if any). I am rebuilding a 1991 R100RT transmission myself as we speak for a very similar issue. With 89k miles it developed a skip in first gear. That skip, which sounds and looks very much identical to what you had in 2nd gear, deteriorated into the eventual loss of use of first gear entirely. When shifting into first gear the lever moved smoothly and seemed to engage but when letting out the clutch a terrible chattering sound comes from the transmission. All the other gears were working 100% with no slippage, skipping or chattering.

I have opened the gearbox and removed the innards to find no obvious damage or excessive wear. Shift forks are in great condition. No broken teeth. No broken dogs, although a few of the corners of the 4th gear dogs are mildly rounded (this is the splined gear that engages with 1st gear to make the bike move in first). The only issue I have seen is that there is excessive play in 1st gear itself and there is about 0.98mm of space between 1st gear and the washers on either side of it. It seems as though the rear bearing on the output shaft crept backwards to create this gap. With that much of a gap it's possible for 1st gear to cock at a slight angle which could be preventing the 4th gear dogs from fully engaging. Thereby producing that chattering sound as the dogs skip by the windows in 1st gear.

These things are kind of difficult to describe in words but I'd really appreciate any feedback on this theory or anyone's similar experiences. I've done a lot of research and this does not seem to be a common problem. This could be due to improper shimming when the transmission was professionally rebuilt 2 years ago.

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