Wild speculation

hlothery · Oct 16, 2009

There is now video evidence of the prototype of the new Honda dual clutch automatic/manual transmission, a six speed device set to appear in the next year or so on ATVs and probably the Goldwing, which will now be produced in Japan. Can a redesigned LT or RT, and a BMW version be far behind? As I understand this technology, it is more than just an automatic transmission you can shift, like so many cars now have. It has one clutch for odd numbered gears, and a second one for even numbered gears. One is always engaged, for continuous power through smooth shifts, while the other disengages for the shifts. Is a manual clutch now a relic?

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statdawg · Oct 16, 2009

hlothery said:
Is a manual clutch now a relic ?

No just those that ride with them will be. This is certainly going to put a dent in the Physical Therapy sector taking care of the grumpy old men with carpel tunnel. Why not make a luxury bike that can be chauffeured by a Japanese house girl ?

The new tech would be too distractive to a conditioned oldster.

88bmwjeff · Oct 16, 2009

hlothery said:
As I understand this technology, it is more than just an automatic transmission you can shift, like so many cars now have. It has one clutch for odd numbered gears, and a second one for even numbered gears. One is always engaged, for continuous power through smooth shifts, while the other disengages for the shifts. Is a manual clutch now a relic?

Interesting. No I do not think the manual clutch is a relic. Fifty plus years of the automatic transmission has yet to signal the demise of the manual transmission. Even the automatic transmissions with the "paddle shifting" hasn't signaled the demise of the manual. There is a feel to a manual transmission that just can't be replicated with an automatic one. I do think motorcycles with automatic transmissions have a place, and should be developed though.

535IS · Oct 16, 2009

88bmwJeff said:
Interesting. No I do not think the manual clutch is a relic. Fifty plus years of the automatic transmission has yet to signal the demise of the manual transmission.

Fifty years? More like seventy (1939 Oldsmobile):

swall · Oct 16, 2009

The dual clutch technology is interesting, but at this point, it is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. The cost of making a dual clutch set-up is about the same as that of an automatic transmission. Given recent computer controlled trickery, we can make the clutching operation happen with solenoids, with minimal driver interaction. So, the argument that has to be made, is, "Is the time here for automatic transmissions in bikes?" If not, then manual transmissions, manual clutches will rule.

MAYLETT · Oct 16, 2009

hlothery said:
Can a redesigned LT or RT, and a BMW version be far behind?

If it is, I likely won't be buying one.

The first car I bought when I was a teenager was an automatic, and I haven't owned one since. I greatly prefer manual transmissions for a variety of reasons. As for motorcycles, shifting gears (clutch and all) is part of the fun of riding. There might be a niche for a bike like this, but I can't imagine it growing much beyond that.

texanrt · Oct 16, 2009

Maylett said:
I greatly prefer manual transmissions for a variety of reasons. As for motorcycles, shifting gears (clutch and all) is part of the fun of riding. There might be a niche for a bike like this, but I can't imagine it growing much beyond that.

I'm generally in agreement on the manual transmission preferences -- coordinating the controls is one of those "skill sets" I enjoy. There are times, though -- like riding fully loaded two-up starting on a steep incline -- when I really appreciate my buddy's FJR AE and his ability to smoothly motor up those hills from a stop. I think I'd have to give an LT or RT with an electronic clutch a demo.

PAULBACH · Oct 16, 2009

There are only three constants:

death
taxes
change

Rinty · Oct 16, 2009

So, will BMW Motorrad beat Honda in the introduction of Porsche Doppelkupplung technology in a production luxotourer?

Stay tuned.

hlothery · Oct 19, 2009

rinty said:
So, will BMW Motorrad beat Honda in the introduction of Porsche Doppelkupplung technology in a production luxotourer?

Stay tuned.

Friends I know with the new PDK in their Porsches, who track their cars (I do not) claim significant decreases in lap times over their manual transmission cars. It seems to be much more efficient in power delivery and engine management, while still facilitating full driver participation....a conclusion F1 came to years ago. I'd love to try a Wing or LT with one.

mika · Oct 19, 2009

Honda announced earlier this month that the Dual Clutch Transmission will debut on the new VFR1200 as an option.

oldhway · Oct 19, 2009

I have heard that when the new auto is offered in the Gold Wing it will come in the package that also includes the DQ soft serve dispenser but don't know if that is true. Hopefully BMW will beat them to it and offer either Hagen Das or Ben and Jerry's.

MOTOR31 · Oct 19, 2009

Wow, lots of sarcasm from folks who tout the power brakes on bmw's. Talk about a problem in search of a solution.

I wonder if it will be cheaper to fix the honda auto transmission than it is to rebuild a final drive or a leaky hydraulic clutch assembly inside the clutch housing of a bmw much less the power brake system.

There was a honda automatic transmission several years ago. Us old timers will recall it being a short lived option, something about no engine braking at all with the slush box.

oldhway · Oct 19, 2009

I am actually a great fan of Honda products. I own an Element, a honda snow blower, and have owned an ST1300 as well as numerous other Honda Motorcycles. I am looking at another ST1300 to join my R1100R in the garage in the spring.. If Honda builds and sells an automatic it will work.

My Ice Cream sarcasm was directed at Hugh :stick

, who is a friend.

Motor31 said:
Wow, lots of sarcasm from folks who tout the power brakes on bmw's. Talk about a problem in search of a solution.

I wonder if it will be cheaper to fix the honda auto transmission than it is to rebuild a final drive or a leaky hydraulic clutch assembly inside the clutch housing of a bmw much less the power brake system.

There was a honda automatic transmission several years ago. Us old timers will recall it being a short lived option, something about no engine braking at all with the slush box.

hlothery · Oct 19, 2009

Oldhway said:
I have heard that when the new auto is offered in the Gold Wing it will come in the package that also includes the DQ soft serve dispenser but don't know if that is true. Hopefully BMW will beat them to it and offer either Hagen Das or Ben and Jerry's.

All DQs are listed as POIs on the new Navi system. :whistle

I heard Camelback is making the new soft serve dispenser for them. :evil

Also, the passenger seat will have a rocking chair option, which the driver can override for the twisties. Finally, the new seats will not only have electric heaters, but also a "Majic Finger" massage option to prevent monkey butt. :nyah

Japanese Wings do have a windshield wiper option.......wish I had that.

Seriously, though......the engine braking is certainly not a problem in F1, and my friends with PDK have no complaints about it, either. Must be working for them, if their lap times are improving so much. Reliability.......well, we all have our issues, don't we?

108625 · Oct 19, 2009

I prefer to do my own shifting, but I completely support Honda offering the option.

In the first place, my father gave up motorcycling years ago due an injury that left his left hand partially paralyzed.

In the second place, there are a lot of veterans coming back from the middle east with similar injuries to their hands or feet. It would be a damn shame if they have to give up riding (or not have the option of taking it up) along with their other sacrifices.

I'm sure there are lots of other similar scenarios, each with a story behind them.

Kudos to those manufacturers offering products that help enable riding to those who otherwise might not have the option.

mika · Oct 19, 2009

The Yamaha FJR ÔÇôAE has received decent reviews from several riders I have met. Engine braking has not been a major issue. In the day I knew two 750A riders. One hated it in large part because of the kidding he got for being a wimp the other took the kidding in stride because he knew he couldnÔÇÖt deal with the clutch. He rode his for years. IIRC someone on the forum has one too.

As to an solution in search of a problem 108625 gave several examples where it could be of help. The big fourÔÇÖs research has talked about the shifting process on motorcycles being an obstacle in converting scooter riders to motorcycles.

Now to DQ. The CamelBak /DQ research that has me thirsty is a quick exchange program for cherry slushes. Pop into the drive through and the attendant will pull your old CamelBack pouch out and replace it with a new one filled with the cooling delight. They come out with that and I just might have to break down and add a navi system.

:bikes

and cherry slushes on hot days.

DMR · Oct 19, 2009

Differences

A guy at work still rides a 400 Hondamatic to work. Short lived, perhaps, but long running.

Change the terms "automatic transmission" to "radiator" and it sounds like the outrage when HD produced the v-rod.

Maybe if all cars were manual shift, there would be less phone use while driving.

hlothery · Oct 19, 2009

Mika said:
Now to DQ. The CamelBak /DQ research that has me thirsty is a quick exchange program for cherry slushes. Pop into the drive through and the attendant will pull your old CamelBack pouch out and replace it with a new one filled with the cooling delight. They come out with that and I just might have to break down and add a navi system.

and cherry slushes on hot days.

I like this idea. Besides, the "Majic Fingers" idea would never work. I am told they have tried it for years at Harley Davidson............ :hide

shire2000 · Oct 19, 2009

Myself, I prefer to manually shift and have a good clutch. But there are many that would love an automagic.

And you can also include Moto-Guzzi as having gone the Auto route with the old Convert. Was a great bike, as long as you did not fry the automatic tranny. At the time, it cost more to fix the tranny than to buy the same bike with manual transmission. Plus, you usually could not find anyone that would actually tackle repairing it.

But as everything hopefully has progressed over time, I am pretty certain Honda will have all those old "issues" ironed out. Then BMW will make one of their own and say they did it better.

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