OK, I bought a barn bike today

Progress report 3-6-09

OK, Greetings, fellow motorcycle persons of the BMW persuasion. Big day today.

Parts & Materials: my Kroil came yesterday evening by FEDEX at 6:54 CDT (dark), so I had a pleasant ritual this morning shooting Kroil into the cylinders and about whatever else I could think of, strolling about in my jammies, sipping coffee and blasting away.

Administrative accomplishment: this RS was a Bill of sale purchase; I did the bureaucracy dance, at three Govt offices, roughly each separated by 40 miles, and as of 1600 CDT I had successfully navigated the local Auto registration, the Regional auto reg over in Arlington, TX (Six Flags traffic on a Friday) and the County courthouse, obtained a hearing and I am now the legal title holder and owner of record. Lucky day, no doubt.

Tech notes: Regarding how to unstick a potentially frozen motor, I have read much, and today I thoroughly examined a completely torn down motor and talked with an authoritative source I have found to be reliable. I certainly welcome comments on these topics.

(a) Overfilling idea: the cam is below the crank, and there is a casting, a wall in there. Highly doubtful if the overfill would accomplish the desired result.
(b) Drop pan and spray lube on main bearings - no go, no access.
(c) Push oil into the oil filter exit passageway: unlikely, as it would not get past the oil pump
(d) Turn motor using the allen bolt on the front of the crank - bad move, it lacks the strength and could snap, which would be expensive; better to put in gear and "bump it" using rear wheel, as those components are built to withstand the torque forces of riding the machine.

Today's actual physical progress: With proof of ownership in hand, and the decks cleared, shop rearranged, got under the RS ("her" or "she"), and removed the trans drain plug. Being 60, arthritic and all and not wishing to make too big an event, I just started out with a nice length of pipe extending my Craftsman socket wrench. The drain plug really was not as tight as I expected.

The horror ! I may have made an audible sound of agony - only a few drops of what looked like water came out into the catch pan...wait a few seconds, maybe a couple more drops. Oh oh. This is not good.

Oh well, cleaned the drain plug as something to do while pondering what appeared to be an empty transmission with just a few drops of water in it. Oh well.

I then removed the fill plug for the trans. Huh? oil gushed out ! HUH ???? big stupid look on my face.

Got under her, and shot some pen oil up into the drain hole and a GUSHER occurred with a small amount of water and goodly quantity of oil ~! Wow ~! Like in the movies of the early days of oil exploration - a gusher !

Theory: my theory is that some water settled to the bottom of the transmission and over 20 years formed a "seal" (waxy/clay-like perhaps) which formed a dam or "plug" that broke when I shot the pen oil up there.

My wishful thinking: am hoping the trans is not too heavily damaged, hopefully the water was not high enough to get into importnt parts, and you know - the trans oil really was not very dirty - surprising.

Today's photo: rearranged shop. the R100S on the lift is getting some right (starboard) caliper work done.

Regards / Ron

Tres Amigos

1977 R100S, red
1977 R100S, green & black
1977 R100RS, silver blue

A pause for photo op during shop cleanup.

Well, you might already know this, but water in the transmission isn't a good thing. I purchased (on ebay) a 5-speed transmission which was coupled to the engine block. The transmission / engine block was "frozen".

I separated the transmission from the engine block and made certain the the oil was drained - it was, as there was no oil present. I could not turn the removed transmission by hand.

Using several torches I disassembled the transmission. I discovered the reason that the transmission wouldn't turn. There was a layer of rust on all of the transmission components. This layer of rust looked like water had entered the transmission (likely through the speedo cable port) and existed as a thin layer on top of the oil present.

The rusted gears could not turn as the rusted teeth could not mesh. So, I have a ruined transmission. The case is good, but the gears and other innerds are trash.

Do you plan to disassemble your RS transmission for inspection?

When I purchased my 77RS the first thing that I did when I got home was change the fluids. When the transmission oil came out, so did a finger nail sized piece of metal. I corresponded with Oak who said that the transmission needed to be re-built. I did the re-build after watching the Ed Korn transmission video a few times. I also went to Re-Psycle BMW a few times for some coaching (and for parts). The piece of metal has a broken tooth from an engaging dog on the intermediate shaft. Fortunately Re-Psycle BMW had a good used intermediate shaft.

I was able to complete the transmission re-build (new bearings and seals and up-graded shift kit) and now the transmission works very well.

Today's Progress (SITREP)

Robsmoto - I am completely impressed with your accomplishment (!) - send address so I can send you my transmission ! (Just kidding - sort of).

I found no metal bits in the fluid, gear oil mostly, that came out of the trans, and the magnetic plug really had just a small quantity of metal stuck to it.

My plan is to ascertain if the motor is recoverable reasonably. If it is, then I would definitely have the transmission serviced / gone through, but that is downstream.

So, today was Day Two for firing Kroil into the spark plug hole. My plan is to give it three days, dunno why 3, just seems right.

OK, today I started the hunt for kerosene to flush the transmission. Struck out numerous times until the lightbulb came on in my head - went to Wally world, picked up a quart of kerosene in the camping seciton, Coleman no less, then snagged some Rotella GL-5 gear oil.

Cleaned the threads reasonably well on both the plug and the trans case. I used an ordinary garden hose rubber washer for the drain plug, as a means of retaining the kerosene for a short while. Made a flexible spout out of a cheap funnel that I fit checked with clear tubing from H/W store, that is 5/8th O.D. and 1/2 inch ID, which perfectly fits into the fill port on the transmission. Total cost $1.50 for this tool as I already had a clamp. Did the kerosene flush, and rocked the RS back and forth a bit in neutral, then drained and inspected resulting fluids. did not see anything remarkabe, just dirty kerosene, so saved it in the original container for other uses later. Then hooked up my small air compressor and periodically blew air through the trans to dry it out, in between working on other stuff. After about an hour of this, started loading the Rotella into the trans, where it may do no good but certainly will not harm it further. Used a copper washer as a temp and tightened it lightly - enough so I did not see any gear oil dripping.

OK, other stuff. I removed the battery ground strap and associated bolt, and must sadly report that someone had put a solid bolt in there instead of the factory vented bolt for the trans. Dunno if this is really a big deal, as it would seem that pressure could vent around the speedo cable circumference. Anyway, I just sort of twisted the speedo cable and was surprised to see the speedo indicate about 25 mph ! It did have bad sounds, but hey - it worked ! I used q-tips dipped in Rotella to clean the recess where the speedo cable goes, then put a drop of gear oil in there for the heck of it.

No clue on how to insert more than one photo in this post - anyone have the decoder ring on that ?

Onward ! Cheers / RB

Question

Interestingly, the main crankcase oil appears to have NO water associated with it. Even more interesting, the oil filter is a bright shiny perforated metal, not hinged in any manner, and removal would appear to require removing the starboard exhaust header. Clever. Open to any suggestions here, folks.

Pan is not dropped yet.

Actually, this has been yet another Pajamas Project, conducted at 0030 local time. Might be smart to shower and change jammies lest I create a spousal event, eh ?

Also: Should I run kerosene through the crankcase to flush it ? Thanks / RB

If you're going to remove the filter, who cares if it gets bent? I had the same filter in my R90 when I got it. It now has a hinged one.

You can have multiple pics per post by uploading them to something like photobucket or smugmug and linking to them, instead of attaching them via the MOA forums.

Hey!

You found yourself a real nice Beemer and as you probably know, the 77 RS is pretty valuable as well.

The transmight well be crapped out but any smooth case 5-speed can relplace it but the engine is another story. It appears as if you might be looking at a complete rebuild but if I might suggest, rebuilding the original engine would definately be the way to go. OTOH, you might luck up. I know I did at least twice.

AFAIK, replacing the tank should be a no brainer. Any R-100 tank will do and theyre easy and cheap to find.

The last time I did one of those restos, I bought several dead Beemers to part out as doner bikes and ended up with several good transmissions, tanks, sets of wheels, etc, etc, and the sale of unneeded parts helped fund the party.

Anyway... Go slow and do a good job. This should be fun. Expensive but fun!

The transmission is more likely to have water than the engine. Consider the entry paths for water. Unless the oil fill dipstick is removed from the engine block, there are no direct paths for water entry.

The transmission, however, has an opening at the back of the case where water can (and does!) enter. This opening is where the speedo cable enters the transmission. There is a rubber boot that fits over the cable and around the opening. But, over time the rubber will age and crack. Then the fit isn't so tight. Water can run down the speedo cable and into the transmission.

Many airhead owners will put some waterproof grease (like wheel bearing grease) inside the rubber boot. And some will put a bead of silicone caulk around the top of the rubber boot, making a more secure seal about the cable. Others will take a small zip-tie and place around the top of the boot for a more secure closure about the cable. - Some folks do all three things!

Periodic replacement of the rubber boot is necessary as is periodic replacement of the transmission oil.

- With respect to attachment of multiple photographs - The forum software will only permit uploading of a single photo per post, as you have discovered. If you instead upload the photos to an online location, for example Photobucket.com, then it is possible to add tags to the posting and effectively have multiple photos.

Smugmug.com is another commercial online photo storage service that is favored by many. I use the free photobucket service. In either case you want to find the "IMG code" for an uploaded photo. Copy this bit of code into your posting. Use the "preview post" to ensure that the photos are incorporated into your posting.

Here are a couple of examples from my Photobucket.com account -

Black vinyl coated braded stainless steel brake line used on 77R100RS



This is why it is necessary to block the front of the crank on an airhead when replacing the rear main oil seal (or whenever the flywheel is removed). A shim at the rear of the crankshaft can easily be disturbed off its locating pin. If the shim bends, the crank must be removed to replace - an expensive and somewhat difficult proposition!!!





- Note: if you use the "quote" button to this posting you will be able to see the embeded html code with the IMG link.

Thanks to mymindsok, robsmoto and crazydrummerdude for encouragement and tips. The interest folks show, the support and enthusiasm, and the tips REALLY add to the fun factor for this project !

Had not occurred to me to just whack the filter - that means I would not have to immediately attack the exhaust flange nut ! Yay !

And thanks to several for the muliple image tip.



robsmoto - is that your RS ? Do you still have it ? Did you have your calipers re-colorized ?

I will definitely use some Bel-Ray grease and maybe a spot tie around the speedo cable booties on my airheads. I intend to not ride in the rain or at night ! If rain is unavoidable, it would be good to have a list of spots that need increases water ingestion protection.

RB

Umm,

Unless you have a hinged replacement filter to put back in, the pipe will still be in the way.
But before you pull the old one all the way out, I'd suggest you do what ever engine flush procedure you're going to try with it still in, and then remove it.
Otherwise, you'll just be removing the replacement filter after the engine flush to inspect and probably chuck it, too.
Just a thought... After all, you're still trying to determine if the engine is any good as is.
I wouldn't expect significant water in the engine either, apart from condensation; but a little can do a lot, over time. Even good old fashioned air causes oxidation, too.

rbleau said:

...robsmoto - is that your RS ? Do you still have it ? Did you have your calipers re-colorized ?...

Click to expand...

The photos are of my 77 R100RS and I do still have it.

I disassembled my calipers during my re-do. The outside of the caliper was very faded as is common. But the inside area (after removing the piston) was unfaded. I bought several cans of spray paint from my local NAPA store in a range of shades that I thought were close to the original caliper color.

I cut apart an empty coke can and sprayed test areas on the bare aluminum surface. I let my wife pick out the closest color match to the unfaded part of the caliper. As I recall the color was Midnight Blue.

The calipers were thoroughly cleaned and given a re-spray. I like the way that they turned out. The photo below shows the painted calipers. You will note that there is some brake dust present as this picture was recently taken (several years after the re-do).

Update 08Mar09

Howdy from Texas ! Several amazing things happened today:

1) the wind stopped blowing
2) the sun came out and temps were 75 degrees F
3) the R100RS cooperated with my TLC

OK, first I piddled around a bit, thinking through what I wanted to do and in what order. Loosening the aft (rear) two bolts on the deep sump oil pan was interesting - neither my wrench nor socket would fit on the 10mm bolt heads due to proximity to the sump wall and cooling fins. Aha ! I got the small 10mm Heyco tool from the factory tool kit, and that worked nicely.

I added a couple ounces more GL5 to the trans and buttoned it up. Big test - will she go into gear ? Answer - YES ! Up into 2nd gear. I stopped there, not wanting to push my luck, although folks tell me to try to get it into top gear, or at least 4th for "bumping".

Then I pulled the valve covers and was pleased they came off readily, and the nuts even had the thin BMW washers - amazing. When I separated the starboard (right) valve cover, yes, oil dripped out - definitely a good sign. No signs of water. Same for the port (left) cyl valve cover, although only a small quantity of oil came out of that one. So with valve covers off, I shot more Kroil down the pushrod tubes, around the valve stems and into the cylinders.

While the Kroil was working, I decided that today I would try to bump it. While thinking about that (actually at age 60 I notice it is extremely easy to have the mind just wander off somtimes - I need to leash that sucker) and just for something to do, I got out my exhaust flange wrench sent me by an old friend on the West Coast, Foxman, and to my complete amazement - I would have lost money on a bet on this one - BOTH exhaust flange nuts came loose without any severe grunt required - I just used a piece of thick wall PVC as an extender to lift up on the port side, and my foot to push down on the starboard side. Success.

OK, now comes show time - enlisted the assistance of my bride, straddled the machine, got her moving forward while holding the clutch in, released clutch - nohing but the rear tire sliding on the shop concrete. Did this a few more times and then it happened ! I saw the port (left) intake valve move towards the open position (into the head) ! Eureka ! I and my bride repeated this , rocking fore and aft, and it moved again !

I decided to quit for the day, the sun was going down, and I need to learn some more. That means - I need to understand the order of things moving, and predict what will move or happen next - pre planned eyeball lock. Suggestions and tips are most welcome and invited !

Not a bad day.

Cheers / Ron

Right side

Here is a pic of the starboard head.

Left intake valve - is this rust ?

Possible - looks like - some rust on the left intake rocker assembly.

RS Project Bike - Today's Portrait

Just thought I would throw in an overall portrait of the barn bike. Note to Pete in Prosper - if you are reading this - come get the carbs !

kstoo said:

Some previous pictures and reports of yours were really scary like the rotten tank and the trans water plug. Today is a lot better. The rocker box pictures do not look like 118,000 miles. They look amazingly clean except for that little rust fungus.
When you were bumping it you had the spark plugs out, right? Just a dumb question.

Click to expand...

Yessir - plugs out.

I believe that I'd keep adding a penetrating oil to the spark plug holes. The frozen engine could be rings rusted to the cylinder wall (I had an old Honda 305 superhawk engine like that once - I ended up tossing the cylinder and pistons). We've already discussed the possible transmission corrosion issue.

If you can get the bike into neutral, can you rotate the rear wheel? If you can rotate the rear wheel you will have more confidence that your transmission is not "frozen".

robsmoto said:

I believe that I'd keep adding a penetrating oil to the spark plug holes. The frozen engine could be rings rusted to the cylinder wall (I had an old Honda 305 superhawk engine like that once - I ended up tossing the cylinder and pistons). We've already discussed the possible transmission corrosion issue.

If you can get the bike into neutral, can you rotate the rear wheel? If you can rotate the rear wheel you will have more confidence that your transmission is not "frozen".

Click to expand...

Yup - goes into neutral and rotates fine.

Just a thought..........Tie, strap or whatever the horizontal brace of your center stand to your front wheel and tighten up good, or to the bottom of the fork. This will allow you to bump the rear wheel, especially in 5th while on the center stand.
Saves it being a 2 person job while you just want to turn it over. Should be loose enough soon to use the rotor with an Allen type wrench.

PLEASE NEVER USE THE NUT ON THE FRONT OF THE CAM.......dont even know if yours has points/cent. advance but that nut is a great temptation to use to turn over the engine; but strips easily..........GOOD WORK by the way......God blesses us old guys so much doesnt he...........Dennis