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hexst
X-Troller
I don't get it someone goes out and buy's a 4-5 year old x-police cruiser. My bike tech friends say cops bikes are worse than rental cars.In fact my local dealer won't sell em to many problems.This "modern Bike" is now 2 evolutions ago and because it crapped out all new bikes of that ilk are shite. Now I'm supposed to be scared to ride my Generaton bike because he had problems. I've been riding since 69 eveything from Spanish dirt and road bikes Asian multipurpose bikes Euro street bikes. Since 02 I put 60,000 miles on BMW's and haven't had more than my share of problems. I've never owned anything from the Motor Company because they have never built anything that I can relate to. But if they did I'd probably give them a try. Hey buddy your bike craped out on you it happens! Get over it and then get what you want and have fun. I'm having fun on my bike inspite of the Brand Bashing going on. When I see ya down the road I'll wave and hope you're having as much fun as I am.
MOTORMAN
Retired and proud of it
Just a point here. I went back and reread the start of the thread. I checked the posts from the guy that started the conversation. In no place did I find where he posted that he got the bike used. He may have been the original owner. I now of at least one other rider who bought the -P model new and doesn't work for a PD.
Finally a couple questions. Is spline lube a maintenance point on any of the services prior to 43,000 miles? If so, shouldn't the shop have noticed some wear if the out put shaft ends up shedding it's splines? I seem to recall some other posts about some model BMW's that had output shaft alignment problems. Was that all related to the newer oilheads?
Finally a couple questions. Is spline lube a maintenance point on any of the services prior to 43,000 miles? If so, shouldn't the shop have noticed some wear if the out put shaft ends up shedding it's splines? I seem to recall some other posts about some model BMW's that had output shaft alignment problems. Was that all related to the newer oilheads?
S
steviewonder
Guest
Motorman said:
Excellent point !!! It's not like the spline would wear down from near new to junk in a few miles, police bike or not.
K
KH7902
Guest
Why not get a new Airhead? I love my new '06 Ural Patrol.
S
steviewonder
Guest
My wife has told me it would cost PLENTY to trade her in.KH7902 said:
bubbagazoo
I like TANG!
StevieWonder said:My wife has told me it would cost PLENTY to trade her in.
From experience, even if you don't get a replacement, getting rid of one is expensive.
Revenue Canada would not allow me to claim my lawyer as a dependant.
S
steviewonder
Guest
bubbagazoo said:
Now, THAT'S funny ... don't care who you are !!!
C
CTHalk
Guest
Back from vacation on 4 wheels instead of two.....
Interesting reading the fire-storm I started here. Is this thread all about me?.... Well, not intentionally. If I may add, I still appreciate the good things about BMWs...it's all the same wind no matter what bike you are riding. I have put a lot of miles in on two wheels.. Most on a 1947 Harley that I rode for 8 years. It never broke anything other than the handlebars split in the middle. My next bike was an R60/2 that was in a cement garage for 10 years, and the motor was stuck. After sitting for a year with ATF fluid in the cylinders, it broke free. Rode that for a year, and traded it to a guy for a 1951 harley. He drove the R60/2 for 7 years and never changed anything but tires, plugs and oil. I spent several years on Dnepr rigs and never lost a spline on any of them. The Ducati never stranded me. Just my luck, I buy a low-miles modern R1100RT-P from a reputable dealer, who tells me it was serviced regularly and in "A-OK" condition.... and when I mention the shifting problem, and ask about spline lube...when and if done.... they tell me "Oilheads don't have spline issues, maybe you don't know how to ride it"...... So then I take it apart (gee, I must have some brain matter left from the 70's.....) and see that it has NOT been serviced regularly OR recently, and find wasted splines. I report my (unhappy) thoughts. ANYONE would be disappointed in the same situation. NOT bashing, just stating fact. Yeah, I guess it IS all about Hal, or at least, my thoughts on the fact that my modern machine appears to be much more costly and much less reliable that the many marques I have ridden over the years. Spline failure? What's up with that? As somebody else here stated, their old Ford put a zillion miles on the clutch, and was never lubed (or trashed any splines). Now, can you HONESTLY say that BMW has a product that lives up to it's bulletproof reputation, and has NO major failure issues that it doesn't own up to or address? And you think it is ONLY police bikes, ridden hard, that have spline issues? Nah, this thread isn't all about Hal.....unless a particular reader is so "BMW-centric" that all other bikes, and riders of other bikes, are crap. As an old guy once told me..... "it's all the same wind". He started riding in the 1920's on an Indian, and ended up on a Honda. Smart guy. Indians were not too reliable after their management changed. They died out. When a company makes a decent (reliable) product at a reasonable (to their target market) price, they sell lots of bikes. They build new dealerships. Hmm, do I see a pattern here? It ain't all about me. It's all about BMW and you/us/them.
Interesting reading the fire-storm I started here. Is this thread all about me?.... Well, not intentionally. If I may add, I still appreciate the good things about BMWs...it's all the same wind no matter what bike you are riding. I have put a lot of miles in on two wheels.. Most on a 1947 Harley that I rode for 8 years. It never broke anything other than the handlebars split in the middle. My next bike was an R60/2 that was in a cement garage for 10 years, and the motor was stuck. After sitting for a year with ATF fluid in the cylinders, it broke free. Rode that for a year, and traded it to a guy for a 1951 harley. He drove the R60/2 for 7 years and never changed anything but tires, plugs and oil. I spent several years on Dnepr rigs and never lost a spline on any of them. The Ducati never stranded me. Just my luck, I buy a low-miles modern R1100RT-P from a reputable dealer, who tells me it was serviced regularly and in "A-OK" condition.... and when I mention the shifting problem, and ask about spline lube...when and if done.... they tell me "Oilheads don't have spline issues, maybe you don't know how to ride it"...... So then I take it apart (gee, I must have some brain matter left from the 70's.....) and see that it has NOT been serviced regularly OR recently, and find wasted splines. I report my (unhappy) thoughts. ANYONE would be disappointed in the same situation. NOT bashing, just stating fact. Yeah, I guess it IS all about Hal, or at least, my thoughts on the fact that my modern machine appears to be much more costly and much less reliable that the many marques I have ridden over the years. Spline failure? What's up with that? As somebody else here stated, their old Ford put a zillion miles on the clutch, and was never lubed (or trashed any splines). Now, can you HONESTLY say that BMW has a product that lives up to it's bulletproof reputation, and has NO major failure issues that it doesn't own up to or address? And you think it is ONLY police bikes, ridden hard, that have spline issues? Nah, this thread isn't all about Hal.....unless a particular reader is so "BMW-centric" that all other bikes, and riders of other bikes, are crap. As an old guy once told me..... "it's all the same wind". He started riding in the 1920's on an Indian, and ended up on a Honda. Smart guy. Indians were not too reliable after their management changed. They died out. When a company makes a decent (reliable) product at a reasonable (to their target market) price, they sell lots of bikes. They build new dealerships. Hmm, do I see a pattern here? It ain't all about me. It's all about BMW and you/us/them.
Personally I'm a bit disinclined to buy one of the new BMWs.
The BMW that I've owned the longest was purchased new - a 94 R1100RS. It has been pretty trouble free.
Early on I had the various recall services done - replaced master cylinder (mine was not leaking); replaced throttle cables (mine were ok); there was something about the alt belt, but I just got an extra one and kept an eye on the original.
I had the heated grips installed by the dealer after purchasing the bike. A little bit later took the bike in for 600 mile service and dealer found that wires were melted and about to short out (hadn't yet) - dealer had to replace a good bit of the wiring harness. (The weather was warm so I wasn't using the heated grips - Note: for other reasons I wouldn't get heated grips again - I like heated gloves better.)
I do all of the regular maintenance myself on this bike. Usually I do things at a much more frequent interval than specified by BMW. Oil is changed at 1000 to 2000 mile intervals. Transmission and rear drive oil are usually changed at the same time as the engine oil. I don't use motorcycle specific oil. I do use DOW Gearguard with the tranny and rear drive unit.
I tried a K&N air filter for a short while, but the preponderance of data available convinced me to go back to the stock filter.
My oilhead doesn't surge (or I can't recognize it if it does!). I notice shifting problems only when I am hot/tired (pilot error?). No freeplay loss with the clutch.
Since buying this new oilhead, I've been moving backwards. First with a 93 GS/PD airhead, then a 75 R60/6, followed by a 77R100RS, and lately a 71 R75/5. Except for the PD the attaction of the other airheads was the very low price and the fact that they could be brought to a very good mechanical and cosmetic state (in my opinion) with a bit of work.
I greatly enjoyed taking 2 years to completely go through the 77RS. I think that it is a classic bike and is great fun to ride. I am enjoying the "zen" of going through the R75/5.
Speaking of zen - I just got a 65 Honda 305 Superhawk (Pirsig's bike in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"). The Superhawk will be my next project after the R75.
Somewhere along the line I'll pull the transmission in the PD and check/fix the output shaft circlip issue. And I may pull the oilhead transmission just for "fun" to check the splines.
I'm fortunate in being able to have multiple bikes so there is always one to ride. And I have the funds and time to have the "luxury" in being able to "tinker" with the bikes. (Although if I had to have a shop work on the bikes, I would likely only have one [or maybe two :-] bikes.)
Someone previously mentioned the URAL. I would seriously consider one of these bikes, if I had the room in the garage. (See some of the ride reports on AdvRider to get an idea - Mr Cobb specifically has some interesting write-ups.)
Just a little caveat - the Colorado videos by sfarson make the new GS (HP2) look pretty good. But I suspect that the URAL, an old GS, or most any other bike would look pretty good in his videos!
The BMW that I've owned the longest was purchased new - a 94 R1100RS. It has been pretty trouble free.
Early on I had the various recall services done - replaced master cylinder (mine was not leaking); replaced throttle cables (mine were ok); there was something about the alt belt, but I just got an extra one and kept an eye on the original.
I had the heated grips installed by the dealer after purchasing the bike. A little bit later took the bike in for 600 mile service and dealer found that wires were melted and about to short out (hadn't yet) - dealer had to replace a good bit of the wiring harness. (The weather was warm so I wasn't using the heated grips - Note: for other reasons I wouldn't get heated grips again - I like heated gloves better.)
I do all of the regular maintenance myself on this bike. Usually I do things at a much more frequent interval than specified by BMW. Oil is changed at 1000 to 2000 mile intervals. Transmission and rear drive oil are usually changed at the same time as the engine oil. I don't use motorcycle specific oil. I do use DOW Gearguard with the tranny and rear drive unit.
I tried a K&N air filter for a short while, but the preponderance of data available convinced me to go back to the stock filter.
My oilhead doesn't surge (or I can't recognize it if it does!). I notice shifting problems only when I am hot/tired (pilot error?). No freeplay loss with the clutch.
Since buying this new oilhead, I've been moving backwards. First with a 93 GS/PD airhead, then a 75 R60/6, followed by a 77R100RS, and lately a 71 R75/5. Except for the PD the attaction of the other airheads was the very low price and the fact that they could be brought to a very good mechanical and cosmetic state (in my opinion) with a bit of work.
I greatly enjoyed taking 2 years to completely go through the 77RS. I think that it is a classic bike and is great fun to ride. I am enjoying the "zen" of going through the R75/5.
Speaking of zen - I just got a 65 Honda 305 Superhawk (Pirsig's bike in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"). The Superhawk will be my next project after the R75.
Somewhere along the line I'll pull the transmission in the PD and check/fix the output shaft circlip issue. And I may pull the oilhead transmission just for "fun" to check the splines.
I'm fortunate in being able to have multiple bikes so there is always one to ride. And I have the funds and time to have the "luxury" in being able to "tinker" with the bikes. (Although if I had to have a shop work on the bikes, I would likely only have one [or maybe two :-] bikes.)
Someone previously mentioned the URAL. I would seriously consider one of these bikes, if I had the room in the garage. (See some of the ride reports on AdvRider to get an idea - Mr Cobb specifically has some interesting write-ups.)
Just a little caveat - the Colorado videos by sfarson make the new GS (HP2) look pretty good. But I suspect that the URAL, an old GS, or most any other bike would look pretty good in his videos!
I have a 2000 1150gs with 129,000 miles on it and the splines are still in very good condition. The reason the splines go bad on some bikes it that the transmittion was not aligned correctly when put together and dowlled. Lube will not save a missaligned tranmission, just prolong the life a little.
S
sfdave
Guest
Splines again
I haven't piped in for a bit - lurking is so much fun - but I must relay my recent experience with my 02' GS. Clutch spline failure for the second time! With only 32K on the clock. Of course, a bit out of warranty (time) and I'm fighting with New Jersey about paying for it.
I've noticed a couple of things about BMW of late. My last two new BMW's ('95 GS and this current '02 GS) have had rather serious problems. The 95 was an oil weeper (head gasket failures and rear main failures - two or three times) and now this spline problem with my 02. It makes me wonder what has happened to BMW reliability. My K75s, R65 and R80 never had any problems. I'm reconsidering my brand loyalty. Also, I don't feel my local dealer has been an advocate for my spline case, and I feel I've been getting the run around from the local service rep and BMWNA. It's become obvious to me there is a problem with this bike from the factory and I just want it fixed. And from reading all the different spline threads on all the different forums, I think BMW knows they have a problem - one they don't seem to be dealing with.
After the bike's fixed, I'm seriously considering selling her and taking my money to Honda for a ST1300. It seems the only way a consumer can make a difference to BMW is by not continuing to buy their product.
I haven't piped in for a bit - lurking is so much fun - but I must relay my recent experience with my 02' GS. Clutch spline failure for the second time! With only 32K on the clock. Of course, a bit out of warranty (time) and I'm fighting with New Jersey about paying for it.
I've noticed a couple of things about BMW of late. My last two new BMW's ('95 GS and this current '02 GS) have had rather serious problems. The 95 was an oil weeper (head gasket failures and rear main failures - two or three times) and now this spline problem with my 02. It makes me wonder what has happened to BMW reliability. My K75s, R65 and R80 never had any problems. I'm reconsidering my brand loyalty. Also, I don't feel my local dealer has been an advocate for my spline case, and I feel I've been getting the run around from the local service rep and BMWNA. It's become obvious to me there is a problem with this bike from the factory and I just want it fixed. And from reading all the different spline threads on all the different forums, I think BMW knows they have a problem - one they don't seem to be dealing with.
After the bike's fixed, I'm seriously considering selling her and taking my money to Honda for a ST1300. It seems the only way a consumer can make a difference to BMW is by not continuing to buy their product.
mika
Still Wondering
sfdave said:
Will not make a bit of difference. Step aside the guy behind you wants to buy a bike. The difference is in the bike you want and are willing to keep up. For me right now it is a BMW... but I was looking at a ST at another dealer and if I wanted a touring bike with a fairing...well
MOTORMAN
Retired and proud of it
M1ka said:
I could agree with this statement except for one thing. Can you explain the relative scarcity of BMW shops accross the US if they are so popular? It does seem to be a relatively consistent problem showing up on the bbs farily frequently. Losing a customer should be of interest to BMW, it could explain why the dealer list is shrinking. When you have to consider driving more than a couple hundred miles just to get service it's a pretty significant factor in choosing what to buy.
mika
Still Wondering
The comment is aimed at corporate BMW not BMW dealers. I donÔÇÖt see the two as the same in goals and issues.
Corporate seems to have found a sweet spot where they are able to produce what they want and move them out to the dealers. At the same time they are making the profit goals they have set for themselves. We can debate how long they can sustain this balance, if they are cleaver in where they are heading or just getting business down to where they can handle it. For them it seems to be a case of step aside the guy behind you wants to buy a bike.
Motorcycle Consumer News did a comparison between a K1200GT and a Yamaha FJR1300AE. The quick read was the result was a draw. ÔÇ£For those who can afford it, the BMW GT offers and edge in technical panache and available equipment, but whether its benefits are worth the additional cost is a question only your wallet can answer.ÔÇØ Give the BMW the nod in the draw only if you have the money.
From the corporate standpoint they are holding their own against the one of the hot GT guns from Japan with their Cycle World 10 best K1200GT. They are betting, and I would too, that from a corporate view there are enough riders, of any ilk, that will open their wallets.
Who is that buyer that some are stepping aside for? What are they buying? Do I fit anywhere in that equation?
I can only address the last question. I am a BMW bottom feeder. I like the Roadster. I picked a non ABS model when I picked this one and if I were to buy a new R1200R it would be as basic a model as possible. On this model I can see the value in buying new. I have to hope there are others who will buy the GTs, GSAs etc that I covet and can and may only buy used. I have a thin wallet.
What about the dealers?
I think there a basically two types of BMW dealers. There are BMW dealers who are motorcycle dealers and make a living at it. There are people who make money by selling BMW motorcycles. Forget all the stuff about customer service and brand and customer loyalty these are the two dealers that survive. Numbers are making it harder for both to survive. The two numbers that matter are the cost of the bike they sell and the number of people willing to part with that sum in order to decrease their inventory. If the latter canÔÇÖt make a buck they are out of here and if former canÔÇÖt make a living no matter how much they may love the business, customers and motorcycles they will close in the end.
Corporate seems to have found a sweet spot where they are able to produce what they want and move them out to the dealers. At the same time they are making the profit goals they have set for themselves. We can debate how long they can sustain this balance, if they are cleaver in where they are heading or just getting business down to where they can handle it. For them it seems to be a case of step aside the guy behind you wants to buy a bike.
Motorcycle Consumer News did a comparison between a K1200GT and a Yamaha FJR1300AE. The quick read was the result was a draw. ÔÇ£For those who can afford it, the BMW GT offers and edge in technical panache and available equipment, but whether its benefits are worth the additional cost is a question only your wallet can answer.ÔÇØ Give the BMW the nod in the draw only if you have the money.
From the corporate standpoint they are holding their own against the one of the hot GT guns from Japan with their Cycle World 10 best K1200GT. They are betting, and I would too, that from a corporate view there are enough riders, of any ilk, that will open their wallets.
Who is that buyer that some are stepping aside for? What are they buying? Do I fit anywhere in that equation?
I can only address the last question. I am a BMW bottom feeder. I like the Roadster. I picked a non ABS model when I picked this one and if I were to buy a new R1200R it would be as basic a model as possible. On this model I can see the value in buying new. I have to hope there are others who will buy the GTs, GSAs etc that I covet and can and may only buy used. I have a thin wallet.
What about the dealers?
I think there a basically two types of BMW dealers. There are BMW dealers who are motorcycle dealers and make a living at it. There are people who make money by selling BMW motorcycles. Forget all the stuff about customer service and brand and customer loyalty these are the two dealers that survive. Numbers are making it harder for both to survive. The two numbers that matter are the cost of the bike they sell and the number of people willing to part with that sum in order to decrease their inventory. If the latter canÔÇÖt make a buck they are out of here and if former canÔÇÖt make a living no matter how much they may love the business, customers and motorcycles they will close in the end.
D
dlearl476
Guest
I believe that sometime in the mid-nineties, someone at BMW formulated the hypothesis that it's easier (cheaper?) to attract a new customer than it is to retain an old one. I believe they had proven it by 2000 when they began the move away from small time mom & pop grassroots dealers towards BOO-tique lifestyle centers. I believe that there is a lot of good left in BMW, but at some point I fear the marketing and the "legend" are going to collide.
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