Battery Charger

[31495]

What about Odyssey's claim that most chargers will not work because their charging voltage during the float stage is too low?

I don't know about their claim that most chargers won't work in the float stage, but their battery manual has a requirement of 13.5 to 13.8V "trickle" for winter storeage (when there is extended non-use) and/or parasitic loads present.
My BT+ shows 13.38 - 13.36V float 12 hrs after it clicks into the float stage, on 2 different installed AGM 28 AH batteries in my 40*F garage. This 13.5-13.8V Oddyssey "trickle" requirement is very close to Deka's AGM float requirement range (13.4V optimum,13.7V max.) in 70-80*F temps, so Oddyssey's requirement (trickle/float level) seems normal for AGMs. It seems that my BT+'s charge & float levels aren't "ideal" according to the battery mfgr. requirements.
I have noted that 12 hrs. after pulling the BT+ from the bikes, the 4.25 y.o. Westco read 13.03V, and the 1.75 y.o. Deka read 12.87V, so the little charger/maintainer seems to be doing it's job.

 

[kobukan]

. . . their (Odyssey) battery manual has a requirement of 13.5 to 13.8V "trickle" for winter storage (when there is extended non-use) and/or parasitic loads present . . .
. . . My BT+ shows 13.38 - 13.36V float 12 hrs after it clicks into the float stage . . .

This is exactly what they're talking about. The float voltage is below their requirement. Of course, any charger/tender will work if conditions are such that one isn't really needed.

 

[globalrider]

I have noted that 12 hrs. after pulling the BT+ from the bikes, the 4.25 y.o. Westco read 13.03V, and the 1.75 y.o. Deka read 12.87V, so the little charger/maintainer seems to be doing it's job.

I hope you are taking those OCV readings at least 8 hours after you disconnect the battery charger. I take mine 24 hours later.

 

[31495]

Dean,
I agree that anything will work if the batt is fully charged (not needed to charge, just float), so I turned the ign./lights on for a min. before running the BT+ thru it's cycle for the results given. Don't know the DOD, but was enough to keep the BT+ red light on for 6 mins.(charge) before switching over to blinking green (absorb).

Alex,
Yes, as stated, V readings were taken ~12 hrs. after an event (except for switch-over points, like chg/float, and max. readings). Also, my OCVs aren't true open circuit, as the batt. is installed in the bike, and I'm reading thru aux. sockets. What this means is that the "resting" voltage 12 hrs. later also had some parasitic draw to pull it a bit lower (not the charger- I pulled it). I don't know what the draw levels are, but the "resting" voltage should be higher if the batts were sitting on a bench (I'm not gonna pull them just for a bench test). OTOH, I may just measure the parasitic draw if I get ambitious. A digital clock doesn't take much, but who knows what else is going on?

 

[jstrube]

A flooded lead acid battery can dry out (very slowly) just being exposed to hot temperatures.


The trouble is, although you may have a functioning voltage regulator at 27C, it probably overcharges the battery during your hot CA summers.

Thing is, I rode it at 80-85 degrees in Utah for 2 days, then put it away on the BT-JR. SO, if anything over charged it... It would have been the BT JR

I'm going to give it a shot & try to resurect the battery this weekend.

 

[globalrider]

OTOH, I may just measure the parasitic draw if I get ambitious.

Hmmm, I had all the chances and never did on any of my motorcycles, simply because I never had any motorcycle battery issues till around the 9th year of service.

The Porsche Carrera was bought used and as a result, I had no prior history as to what the battery had gone through other than it being installed in 2005.

I found the in-car battery voltage decreasing far too quickly indicating to me a substantial current draw which wasn't the case as 22 mA is normal on that car, or capacity was way down, which was the case. I performed a load test at one-half the CCA and it was marginal.

BTW, is there a Reserve Capacity rating on our motorcycle batteries? I can't remember ever seeing that specification on our battery cases. It could be that it would have to be re-written for our purposes or types of batteries, because there is no way our batteries would last using the 25A current draw specification for Reserve Capacity.

I used the RC capability of my new car battery last year and its a good thing I installed a new one. My alternator belt broke and I drove home 110 miles on the battery alone. I turned everything off, started my stop watch and used a heavier foot to up the speed.

 

[globalrider]

Thing is, I rode it at 80-85 degrees in Utah for 2 days, then put it away on the BT-JR. SO, if anything over charged it... It would have been the BT JR

I'm going to give it a shot & try to resurrect the battery this weekend.

Unless you measure the in-vehicle charging voltage to the battery, you can't assume it is the BT charger.

All vehicles should have one of these installed...

Motorcycle...

Car...

 

[jdwatson]

Odyssey PC680

I found my R1150RT with a PC680 (about 1.5 years old) dead over the weekend. Apparently, I left my chatterbox plugged into the bike since the last time I rode, which was in December. I've tried to charge the battery but it will not take a charge.

The battery sits at 6.82V no matter which charger I try. I've got one that is similar to ODYSSEY?« UltimizerÔäó Chargers 12A and a Battery Tender, Jr. Last time I pulled this bone-head move, the BT, Jr. had me running in about 8 hrs. Now, nothing.

Any ideas ?

Are the Odyssey batteries really worth the trouble ?

 

[jstrube]

I just found out that the electric tank bag option from SW Motech will use power if the bag is mounted to the bike. Appearantly, they use a relay that is turned on magnetically when the bag is mounted to keep the contacts "cold" when it is not there. Unfortunately, this relay uses power whether the bike is running or not.

Luckily, it was my friend that killed his battery & told me about it before I did the same!

I may try to bypass this feature somehow, either by wiring this relay wire through something switched, or just bypassing it. I hate to defeat a "safety feature", but then again, my outlet plug is hot all the time whether I use it or not. I just won't set my keys on it!

 

[globalrider]

Apparently, I left my chatterbox plugged into the bike since the last time I rode, which was in December. I've tried to charge the battery but it will not take a charge.

Although manufacturers of AGM (and GEL) batteries "claim" their batteries can be recovered better than a Flooded Lead Acid battery, they can only stay in a deeply discharged state for so long.

have you checked their site for recovery recommendations?

Does the battery heat up when the 12A charger is hooked up? If so, disconnect it if the battery temperature goes above 120 deg F.

Batteries deeply discharged when hooked up to a charger can sometimes take a few hours to begin accepting a charge. How long did you leave it on the charger? BTW, you may find the the voltage decreases initially before starting to increase again.

What does the battery voltage do while the charger is connected?

 

[31495]

Any ideas ?QUOTE]

Try this: Jump your"dead" Oddyssey w/ a known good fully charged battery (doner vehicle not running), then in a minute install the charger. Remove the jump when the Oddyssey starts taking a charge. As is (6.82V), the chargers think the battery is dead (or 6V) and gives up. By jumping it, you bring up the voltage and fool the charger.
This isn't my idea, I read it a couple places on-line for Oddyssey battery quirks and tricks.

 

[jdwatson]

Although manufacturers of AGM (and GEL) batteries "claim" their batteries can be recovered better than a Flooded Lead Acid battery, they can only stay in a deeply discharged state for so long.

have you checked their site for recovery recommendations?

On my way...

Does the battery heat up when the 12A charger is hooked up? If so, disconnect it if the battery temperature goes above 120 deg F.

It doesn't get hot or warm, mild would be the word I would use.

Batteries deeply discharged when hooked up to a charger can sometimes take a few hours to begin accepting a charge. How long did you leave it on the charger?

3 days on the BT jr. The 12A charger stops with "bad bat" flashing"

BTW, you may find the the voltage decreases initially before starting to increase again.

What does the battery voltage do while the charger is connected?

The voltage remains between 5.6V and 5.8V

I think I killed the battery and I'm not optimistic about recovery.

 

[globalrider]

The 12A charger stops with "bad bat" flashing".

Do you mean after a charge at 12A?

 

[globalrider]

Try this: Jump your"dead" Odyssey w/ a known good fully charged battery (doner vehicle not running), then in a minute install the charger. Remove the jump when the Odyssey starts taking a charge.

Yes, some chargers need a minimum voltage to start charging...for the circuit to initiate.

If he has a DC power supply he use that as well to bring the voltage up.

 

[kobukan]

. . . 3 days on the BT jr. . .

According to Odyssey that charger won't revive a drained battery.

. . . The 12A charger stops with "bad bat" flashing" . . .

As mentioned in 31495's previous post, the charger thinks the battery is dead and didn't even try to charge it.


The BT jr isn't supposed to work for this and the other one never attempted to charge the battery so it's no surprise the battery didn't take a charge.

 

[Jade]

Unless you measure the in-vehicle charging voltage to the battery, you can't assume it is the BT charger.

All vehicles should have one of these installed...

Motorcycle...

Car...

May I ask where you got those little voltmeters?

 

[globalrider]

May I ask where you got those little voltmeters?

I got the parts from Mouser Electronics. The parts list is in the link below.

I would not suggest the LCD meters for motorcycle use though as they are not waterproof. Get the Datel equivalent with an LED display. The only downside is you cannot connect it directly to the battery without a relay or switch in between. Another possibility is connecting the meter to a switched output that measures the same as the battery; most don't though.

Here is my Surface Mount Datel LCD Voltmeter Install write-up.

 

[pmdave]

The Kisan ChargeGuard is available from SoundRider. The meter includes voltage, amperage, and temperature in F or C, selectable with the pushbutton.

The ChargeGuard is wired directly to the battery, with a shunt at the negative terminal. However, it's "smart" in that it turns off the display after a few minutes of voltage low enough to indicate the battery isn't being charged.

With a charger connected, the meter turns on.

This installation is on Sparky the Spyder.

pmdave

 

[globalrider]

The ChargeGuard is wired directly to the battery, with a shunt at the negative terminal.

Dave, how accurate is it? Does a DMM across the battery terminals read what the display shows?

A shunt is connected in series, that means you are breaking the connection between the battery and negative cable. Is the shunt sturdy enough not to break, because if it does, we all know what will happen.

However, it's "smart" in that it turns off the display after a few minutes of voltage low enough to indicate the battery isn't being charged.

Have you measured the standby current drain? Any idea what it is?

 

[pmdave]

The ChargeGuard seems to be very accurate, when compared to my Radio Shack digital meter (at the battery terminals). When set for amps, and the charger disconnected, it fluctuates between -0.1A and 0.0A. I'm not seeing any indications of significant parasitic loads.

The meter uses a separate wire for the temperature measuring. The bulb is supposed to be supported down low on the machine, in front of any heat sources. I haven't checked the temperature accuracy, but it seems about right. On the Spyder I threaded the wire down alongside the front trunk, dangling it into the airstream coming under the front cowl.

Of interest, the wires from the shunt to the meter are standard telephone, with telephone connectors. I encased them in tubing and snaked through the frame backbone, along with the other wires.

Based on my experience, I would recommend the ChargeGuard. I really appreciate being able to see the charging voltage whenever I walk by the machine. ACI = 13.7; Battery Doc=13.4

pmdave