• Welcome, Guest! We hope you enjoy the excellent technical knowledge, event information and discussions that the BMW MOA forum provides. Some forum content will be hidden from you if you remain logged out. If you want to view all content, please click the 'Log in' button above and enter your BMW MOA username and password.

    If you are not an MOA member, why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the BMW Owners News magazine, and all of the discounts and benefits the BMW MOA offers?

Oil, not just another thread

W

Wethead

New member
my 2018 seems to be making too much noise to me: like a clacking of valves

I took it to the shop and the mech said all the valves are to spec settings

Then we had a long discussion on why the clacking sound.

The suggestion was made to try a Motul 4T 7100 10W 60 100% Synthetic oil to see if it reduces the noise.

I live in a tropical rock, so its always hot. I am inclined to think that the 5-40 oil weigh recommended by BMW may be too thin for this environment.


I remember all my previous RT (including two previous wetheads) the Owners Manual had a map for temperature range and oil viscosity. The 2018 only lists one oil: 5--40.

What says the experts?

Please, no scoldings and patriarchal comments. We need technical savvy here.
 
It’s been suggested that the “0” and close to “0” weight oils are part of trying to satisfy EPA/government mileage mandates. I have messed with using “out of spec (weight)” oils with results I have been happy with. From using a 0-40 to straight 40 to free up parts or slow oil consumption. I’m pretty sure the manufacturer recommended oil weights are the best overall as they don’t know where an engine will end up or the engines service duty.
The new oils are pretty flexible, I don’t think you can hurt anything....give it a shot. Let us know how you make out.
OM
 
If you should have an issue with your still under warranty bike, I would expect BMW would not agree with your mechanic's choice of oil.

In this case the saying is true about the noise; "they all do it", (especially when hot)!
 
Living here in the desert with bikes running in daily temps above 100 for months, my BMW mechanic used 20-50 in my GS a few weeks ago while it was in for service.

Over on the adv rider forum, many long time boxer owners have used a variety of oils for decades and not seen problems in doing so with 100K or more on the bikes. One rider just turned 1 million miles on his boxer and has always used 20-50.
 
Wethead said:
my 2018 seems to be making too much noise to me: like a clacking of valves...What says the experts?
Click to expand...

I've experienced this with my 2005 R1200, using dino oil in hot conditions; it's quite alarming.

I would write to BMW NA and check whether using a heavier viscosity oil will affect your warranty. They may be able to give you a statement that they don't recommend X or Y, but that using it won't affect it.

Then make a hard copy for your records.

Good luck.

On a related note, and for the real experts, I wonder if the skinny oil is required because the liquid cooled engines are build to such tight tolerances? (here we go :( )
 
Yeap, I am starting to think the o' standard 20-50 that I have used on most bikes I owned (including non-wethead beemers) maybe the most reasonable for hot weather.

The other issue that came up with this tech was that 'most so called 'synthetic' oils are not really fully synthetic, while this Motul 4T 7100 is completely, 100% synthetic. In fact, that 5-40 expensive BMW oil may be one of them not completely synthetic.

Its very difficult to ascertain these kinds of issues because no one seems to be doing the kind of empirical research that needs to be done in order to figure out the best choice of oil
 
Wethead said:
Its very difficult to ascertain these kinds of issues because no one seems to be doing the kind of empirical research that needs to be done in order to figure out the best choice of oil
Click to expand...

I wonder what BMW did to determine their recommendation?
 
Interesting, some fellow hiding behind a fake name, claims that he knows more about oil for specific motor than the maker of the motor, a company in business for almost a 100 years. And on top of it a huge company like Shell that sells a few gallons of oil a year to BMW is lying about the product that they make, package and sell?
But some fly by night shade tree mechanic knows best.
Why don’t you use some 75W90 oil. That should stop your motor from making noises.
 
Rinty said:
I would write to BMW NA and check whether using a heavier viscosity oil will affect your warranty. They may be able to give you a statement that they don't recommend X or Y, but that using it won't affect it.
Click to expand...

Don't hold your breath waiting for a reply.
 
brownie0486 said:
Living here in the desert with bikes running in daily temps above 100 for months, my BMW mechanic used 20-50 in my GS a few weeks ago while it was in for service.
Click to expand...

+1 here. The service mgr at my BMW dealership made the same 20-50 recommendation for operating my '17 GSA in our 100F+ summers, BUT he does not plan to make the switch until my engine has been fully broken in - in his judgment, 6000 miles - using the mothership-recommended 5W-40. I trust him. He doesn't just write service tickets, he overhauls BMW engines personally.
 
Does anyone have first hand knowledge of a warranty claim being denied because of the use of an oil of a viscosity other than what is specified? If so, then how did the dealer know it was an unapproved viscosity?
 
Ring! Ring! ...
BMW said:
Hallo, hier ist Motorrad technischer Service
Click to expand...
Hi, I was wondering if it would be better for me to use heavier than recommended oil in my BMW Wethead.
BMW said:
Wir haben ein siebenstöckiges Gebäude voller brillanter Wissenschaftler in weißen Laborjacken, die nur arbeiten, um die beste Wartung für Ihr Motorrad zu ermitteln und zu dokumentieren!
Click to expand...
Well, I'm sure that you have lots of good engineers who prepare the owner's manuals, but the engine is making loud clacking sounds like valves and I thought a heavier oil would quiet it down.
BMW said:
Es ist ein lauter Motor. Alle Motorräder machen es..
Click to expand...
Well, I have heard that it is a noisy motor, but I live in a hot tropical place.
BMW said:
Wir verkaufen Motorräder auf der ganzen Welt. Ist es heißer als eine verdammte Wüste?
Click to expand...
Well, I've never ridden in the desert, but it is very hot here and someone told me that a heavier oil would quiet it down.
BMW said:
Gießen Sie Beton hinein, dann wird es sehr ruhig sein. Wer hat dir gesagt, dass du das tun sollst?
Click to expand...
It was someone on the internet. I don't know his real name, would his forum name help?
BMW said:
Click!
Click to expand...
 
1957mpd said:
+1 here. The service mgr at my BMW dealership made the same 20-50 recommendation for operating my '17 GSA in our 100F+ summers, BUT he does not plan to make the switch until my engine has been fully broken in - in his judgment, 6000 miles - using the mothership-recommended 5W-40. I trust him. He doesn't just write service tickets, he overhauls BMW engines personally.
Click to expand...

Yup, mine was in for it's 12K service. I've also heard one should stick to the recommended oil for the first 6K.
 
BernieEcht said:
Interesting, some fellow hiding behind a fake name, claims that he knows more about oil for specific motor than the maker of the motor, a company in business for almost a 100 years. And on top of it a huge company like Shell that sells a few gallons of oil a year to BMW is lying about the product that they make, package and sell?
But some fly by night shade tree mechanic knows best.
Why don’t you use some 75W90 oil. That should stop your motor from making noises.
Click to expand...

I dreaded placing this post in fear of this kind of BMW apostolate coming out of the woodworks.

First of all, I resent your judgments on "hiding" and "fake name". It does display your level of personality. And no where has anyone said Shell is lying about their oil; though, have you ever heard of a Corporation lying? Surely not if you live under a rock. The flight by night shade mech you referred to is actually a European guy with tons of experience in European cycles and has been to several BMW tech schools--and he is also a rider of a BMW. Now you tell me: why would I take your funky judgmental post serious over his advise?

But I 'll help you out anyways: You are proposing a very naive and very patriarchal posturing sir; that of the "BMW quality controls immaculate motorcycles". If you have been duped into worshiping BMW engineering, remember the quirks on the K1600 maiden bike, the grounding of the first wethead model. You go ahead and continue to burn candles while praying the Owner's Manual under the BMW logo. You are sadly mistaken if you think you can trust the engineering motivations of any vehicle maker nowadays sir.

Modern engineering designs are driven by marketing in Corporate vehicle manufacturing. BMW is no different. Neither one of us has any idea how many parts on a RT have been manufacture abroad in farmed-out contracts; for that matter, if actual 'German Engineers' designed every part. For all you and I know, there is a bunch of Japanese or chinese young kids infront of computers designing--I wouldn't doubt if they were the ones that finally took the cluncking out of the 2018 RT tranny. If you find a mech who is honest and experienced, I would suggest you trust him/her more than you trust any giant corporation; none of which give a rats-arses about you. They are only interested in profits.

I have a friend who changed water pumps 8 times of a GT--stranded twice on cross country runs; myself, ended up stuck in near Astoria somewheres with the front shock quirk on a 2015 GT--even though these problems started on 2012. Dude! get real with that.

Try to join the conversation with intelligent thoughts and constructive points of view if you can from now on. Keep you condescending thoughts to yourself.



1957mpd said:
+1 here. The service mgr at my BMW dealership made the same 20-50 recommendation for operating my '17 GSA in our 100F+ summers, BUT he does not plan to make the switch until my engine has been fully broken in - in his judgment, 6000 miles - using the mothership-recommended 5W-40. I trust him. He doesn't just write service tickets, he overhauls BMW engines personally.
Click to expand...

This seems like a sensible speculation.

It used to be that Owner's Manuals had different range of viscosity/temperature maps. My 2018 only list the 5--40. Maybe this new oil-from-gas scheme covers every range.

I have noted the engine runs nice and tight when cold, as soon as it get to a certain heat, the click-clack starts.
 
akbeemer said:
Does anyone have first hand knowledge of a warranty claim being denied because of the use of an oil of a viscosity other than what is specified? If so, then how did the dealer know it was an unapproved viscosity?
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly. If it has oil in it and a failure occurs, unless it comes out like molasses, they won't look further.

As I'm reading this, I'm just wondering and trying to apply a bit of logic. From what I've read, the most wear on the engine occurs in the first seconds of startup when the oil has drained. So to get the oil to the places that need it, a lighter weight oil is better than a heavier weight oil.

Now once the engine gets running, does it care what the outside temperature is? Maybe in Fairbanks in December. But for most of us, I'm not sure it matters after a minute or two. Parts are moving on bearings and everything is heating up quickly.

After a few minutes, the engine is at full operating temperature. It's hot. Really hot. From what I've experienced, it doesn't matter if the outside temperature is 35F, or 105F, if I'm in stop-n-go traffic, the fan will eventually kick in...indicating the engine and everything inside it, is hot. At 105F, obviously the fan kicks in more often...but it never overheats.

So my point in this long-winded post is I don't know that our rationale for using heavier weight oils on a water-cooled engine really is valid any more. On an air-cooled engine, yes. But as long as the fan is working and the engine temp doesn't exceed the normal operating temperature...the engine oil really doesn't know what's happening outside the engine. The heat inside the engine is far greater than anything outside of it...and the radiator and cooling system is doing what it is designed to do...maintain the engine temperature at the optimum for performance and emissions.

I think you need to find another cure for your noisy engine. STP was the answer back when I was growing up. Of course the oil was incredibly thick and could be compared to molasses...

Chris
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top