The Downside to Odyssey Batteries

[nrpetersen]

I just replaced a 750 ma-Battery Tender-maintained PC680 in my R1100RT after ten years.

Now it still can APU start my Piper J4A which has no other electrical system.

 

[PGlaves]

The Odyssey literature I find says bulk charge at 6 amps minimum, which is why the 7002 is better than the 4.3.

 

[jconway607]

Just a note for anyone still interested in the charger/battery issue. I have done a good deal of calling/research/buying in regards to both Odyssey and Bettery Tender. To summarize:

1) The battery charger sold by BMW for around $100 is actually a Battery Tender Plus, only relabeled for BMW. BMW technicians choose that unit to be sold under the BMW name from all other manufacturers. If you look at the Battery Tender's website and Bob's BMW, you can see they are identical units. Note: Battery Tender recently changed the design of the Plus unit, so it looks slightly different now. BMW wanted to keep the old design with the larger lights. So from now on they won't look identical, but will still be the same unit inside.

2) I was told by Odyssey that you had to have a float voltage of at least 3.5 volts to keep their battery working properly. Battery Tender people told me that the Plus unit does 13.4-13.6 volts on float It doesn't. I now own a Plus unit and it puts out 14.5 volts when it starts up, then goes down to 13.1 volts on float. Those numbers are identical with the Battery Tender Jr, that I already owned. Same exact program in each unit.

3)The only difference between the two units is that the Plus puts out a claimed 1.25 amps where the Jr is just 750 milliamps. The plus therefore does top off the battery and go to float voltage much quicker. Of course if you are just plugging the unit in and walking away, the few extra minutes doesn't mean much.

I guess in summary, I have found, as is often the case, that neither company, Battery Tender, or Odyssey, actually know what they are talking about in regards to their own products. The Battery Tender people don't know what voltage their units actually put out, having apparently never bothered to measure them with a meter, as I did. If you have a Tender Jr.,it's all you need to keep these batteries in good shape. Anything more is just a waste of money.
And as for Odyssey, their claim that you need 13.5 volts to keep the battery charged seems completely untrue. Using the Plus or Jr., unit and letting the battery sit for at least 24 hours after charging ( their test) , I am reading 13 volts on the battery. Odyssey says it should then be reading 12.7 or above. Well, I have that, using the 13.1 volt charging rate they claim won't work. Mystifying , isn't it?

This may be the problem when you have engineers email blue prints to someone in China, then never really check on what you got back when they unload the container ship. But this has happened to me so often, I now regard it as the standard of industry. I would call both companies back, but I know they would simply tell me that both my Fluke and Simpson meters are reading incorrectly, (a previous response from them). Yes, that's undoubtedly the case.

 

[miker1100r]

I agree. I have Tender Jr.s on my lawn tractor battery, my wife's Ninja 250 battery and my '98 R1100R PC 680 battery all winter. They all start up in the spring with no issues. ( Well maybe the 250 is a little cranky but that is the carbs). Admittedly my evidence is subjective and anecdotal but I know that my previous Odyssey battery lasted 7 years with this maintenance. There is no point in overthinking the issue. I plan to continue this method as long as I live in the frozen white tundra of CT.

 

[omega man]

Welcome (again) Mike
Gary

 

[jconway607]

I agree. I have Tender Jr.s on my lawn tractor battery, my wife's Ninja 250 battery and my '98 R1100R PC 680 battery all winter. They all start up in the spring with no issues. ( Well maybe the 250 is a little cranky but that is the carbs). Admittedly my evidence is subjective and anecdotal but I know that my previous Odyssey battery lasted 7 years with this maintenance. There is no point in overthinking the issue. I plan to continue this method as long as I live in the frozen white tundra of CT.

It's difficult to ferret out the "on the ground" truth in all of this battery "information". Odyssey again told me that their batteries definitely need 13.5 volts on the float setting to stay in top shape over the long haul. They said they often get calls about 18 months after purchase. That's when the problems start when using the lower (13.1, I suppose) charge settings. Of course on the practical, actual user side, people, (including myself, and Mike) say they have been using the Tender Jr for years without any problems. I've given up trying to reconcile the two views.

As for myself, and anyone considering switching to the Odyssey battery from a regular lead/acid, I did the following:
1) Sent back the Battery Tender Plus. It was a nice unit, and actually a copy of the one BMW sells. And it did charge up the battery very quickly. But it puts out the same float voltage (13.1) as the Tender Jr which I already owned. Deltran says that is within it's specs, although they had previously told me the Plus did 13.5 volts on float. By the way, Odyssey says right away that the reason that works for the BMW/Deltran charger is that new BMW bikes don't come with Odyssey batteries. I suppose that is true. If you upgrade the battery in the future though, well, you're back to square one. So everyone might want to skip the $100 BMW charger, even though it does have that wonderful insignia on it.
2) Ordered a Schauer CM6A charger, for about $50.00. It has a select-able charging voltage setting, meets Odyssey's float voltage requirements, and judging from my father's Schauer unit working well for 25+ years, should be the last charger I will need.
I hope this information will save a few members a lot of time at some point. And to think, it all goes back to those little ABS lights flashing alternatively. Maybe I should have just removed the bulbs, and not, as Mike says, "overthink the problem". It's a classic case of BMW-ownership-itis. "It's gotta run perfectly......."

 

[SeabeckS]

Prophetic thread...

Went out to the garage yesterday intending to go for a nice ride on the S. Whirr...click, click, click.

3 year old Oddysey, on a Battery Tender...

Bummer!

 

[nrpetersen]

Went out to the garage yesterday intending to go for a nice ride on the S. Whirr...click, click, click.

3 year old Oddysey, on a Battery Tender...

Bummer!

Measure the open circuit voltage at the battery terminals with a good DVM. It may not have been connected to the charger for whatever reason. Remember the Battery Tender has to see at least +8V on the battery when first connected or it will not connect. This BT design feature has been done to protect the battery charger (and battery) from being accidentaly connected backwards.

 

[SeabeckS]

Measure the open circuit voltage at the battery terminals with a good DVM. It may not have been connected to the charger for whatever reason. Remember the Battery Tender has to see at least +8V on the battery when first connected or it will not connect. This BT design feature has been done to protect the battery charger (and battery) from being accidentaly connected backwards.

Thanks for the input...I've used a Battery Tender on this bike through the Powerlet connection for 8 years without a problem. I'll dig into it tomorrow, the S has a wonderful design feature that makes battery access...challenging. Side fairing panels have to come off which involves undoing an impossible to see and tedious little connector. Frustrating...

 

[roger 04 rt]

It's difficult to ferret out the "on the ground" truth in all of this battery "information". Odyssey again told me that their batteries definitely need 3.5 volts on the float setting to stay in top shape over the long haul. They said they often get calls about 18 months after purchase. That's when the problems start when using the lower (13.2, I suppose) charge settings. Of course on the practical, actual user side, people, (including myself, and Mike) say they have been using the Tender Jr for years without any problems. I've given up trying to reconcile the two views.

...

And to think, it all goes back to those little ABS lights flashing alternatively. Maybe I should have just removed the bulbs, and not, as Mike says, "overthink the problem". It's a classic case of BMW-ownership-itis. "It's gotta run perfectly......."

I wrestled with all the same issues after buying this popular Odyssey battery. Now though, it all seems pretty straightforward. Given that the Oilheads' charging system is not designed for any AGM battery and that Battery Tender Jr. Isn't either, you can do one of two things if you choose an AGM battery:

1. Ignore the incompatibility, deal with slower starting and ABS warning lights if/when they happen. Or,

2. Choose a proper AGM charger and/or modify the Oilhead charging system so that the PC680/AGM battery is always brought to 100% state-of-charge, per the battery's manufacturer.

Once you choose, forget the issues and enjoy riding.

 

[gsaddict]

Measure the open circuit voltage at the battery terminals with a good DVM. It may not have been connected to the charger for whatever reason. Remember the Battery Tender has to see at least +8V on the battery when first connected or it will not connect. This BT design feature has been done to protect the battery charger (and battery) from being accidentaly connected backwards.

Unfortunately if the battery has an ocv of 8v, it has been damaged and will have a short (if any) service life.

 

[jconway607]

I wrestled with all the same issues after buying this popular Odyssey battery. Now though, it all seems pretty straightforward. Given that the Oilheads' charging system is not designed for any AGM battery and that Battery Tender Jr. Isn't either, you can do one of two things if you choose an AGM battery:

1. Ignore the incompatibility, deal with slower starting and ABS warning lights if/when they happen. Or,

2. Choose a proper AGM charger and/or modify the Oilhead charging system so that the PC680/AGM battery is always brought to 100% state-of-charge, per the battery's manufacturer.

Once you choose, forget the issues and enjoy riding.

Roger, I think you have summarized it perfectly.

 

[nrpetersen]

Maybe we are dealing with slightly different calibrations of everyone's DVM? or even of everyone's charger set values?

 

[PGlaves]

Unfortunately if the battery has an ocv of 8v, it has been damaged and will have a short (if any) service life.

Well, since we are talking about Odyssey batteries, here is what Odyssey says:

"Your ODYSSEY battery has very high recharge efficiency and is robust enough to accept a charge even when its OCV is less than 5.0V."

 

[tanker4me]

Tested hundreds of batteries used in telecommunication remote terminal ups applications annually for 7 years.

Most brands and sizes up to 200Ah were in the mix. Some Ni-Cd but mostly AGM batteries were used.

Of the AGMs, Enersys brand, the makers of Odyssey batteries had the fewest issues.

I purchased Odyssey PC680 batteries for a R90/6 & R100GSPD with stock electrical systems over 6 years ago.

Year round riding weather here.

I don't do many short trips.

Neither battery has been on a charger since they were installed.

The old bikes don't have any parasitic drain, they start easily even if they've sat a month or two.

I am sure there have been failures.

So far so good with the batteries I have.

Bill

 

[Realshelby]

The longest lasting battery I had in my oilhead was an PC680. Probably still in it. It ALWAYS cranked the bike over faster than any other battery. It never had a warning light from low charge. I don't own a special charger.

I think most of this "special care" is just BS. If the "incorrect" charging system on the oilhead didn't kill it in the 6 years I had it in the bike ( never on any kind of trickle charge ), and it still seemed to perform as good as new till I traded it, then what is there to the "special care"? I am sure they can show incredible results in laboratory and long term tests if you do things for it in a certain way. But some things just simply work better than anything else and if I can get 5-6 years out of it without smothering over my charge voltage it is doing a great job!

 

[happy wanderer]

Tested hundreds of batteries used in telecommunication remote terminal ups applications annually for 7 years.

Most brands and sizes up to 200Ah were in the mix. Some Ni-Cd but mostly AGM batteries were used.

Of the AGMs, Enersys brand, the makers of Odyssey batteries had the fewest issues.

I purchased Odyssey PC680 batteries for a R90/6 & R100GSPD with stock electrical systems over 6 years ago.

Year round riding weather here.

I don't do many short trips.

Neither battery has been on a charger since they were installed.

The old bikes don't have any parasitic drain, they start easily even if they've sat a month or two.

I am sure there have been failures.

So far so good with the batteries I have.

Bill

Parasitic drain is the only problem I have seen with two Odyssey batteries I am currently using in my oilhead and in one of my airheads. Both the old analog clocks on airheads and the quartz clock on my oilhead (RT) have enough parasitic drain that I make sure and connect my Odyssey approved charger about once a month over winter if I am not riding the bike(s). Another one I found that surprised my was the Garmin GPS cradle I have on all my bikes. Even with the GPS unit removed (and it should be removed when not riding) they draw power. So does the ECU. Tiny current draw but it all adds up over time.

The best thing to do with an Odyssey that is going to sit for a few months is to just disconnect the ground side of the battery. Odysseys have a very tiny self discharge rate and can be stored for long periods without losing much if any of their charge. Not so for flooded types.

 

[SeabeckS]

Unfortunately if the battery has an ocv of 8v, it has been damaged and will have a short (if any) service life.

An ocv of 13.5.

 

[gsaddict]

An ocv of 13.5.

In your case it's probably badly sulfated. I doubt if a cell jumper has cracked. Odyssey are not known for that problem.

 

[gsaddict]

Well, since we are talking about Odyssey batteries, here is what Odyssey says:

"Your ODYSSEY battery has very high recharge efficiency and is robust enough to accept a charge even when its OCV is less than 5.0V."

It may well accept a charge, I've brought a few deeply discharged ones back but their service life was compromised.