The Sena 20S challenge. Take my money, please.

[waxrash]

I would like to issue a challenge to anyone who can make a Sena 20s work as described in the manual, in my environment.
I am offering a reward.

First my environment:
Sena 20s (1.3 Firmware) (I have replaced the unit once already just thinking it must be defective, same result on new unit).
Garmin Zumo 660 (software version 5.10, 2015.30 maps)
IPhone 6+ (IOS 8.2)

Settings on my 20s:
VOX Phone: enable
Sidetone: disable
Motion Sensor: High
Audio Multitasking: Enable
Intercom-audio Overlay sensitivity: 6
Navigation App Support: disable

I have logged over 60,000 miles on a my trusty old Sena SMH10. No real problems, but like an idiot, I thought I would upgrade.
I am about 8 months in on my Sena 20s and I find it almost unusable. I talked to others with 20s and they just frown and say theirs behaves the same way.

So why upgrade:

1) The audio multitasking feature. I want the GPS to talk over the audio conference, reduce volume of conference, but don't disconnect.
2) Stop disconnecting the audio conference on each GPS announcement as the SMH10 does.

There are really only two ways recommended in the manual to pair a Bluetooth device (for my environment).
First is as a phone, then as a second phone.

The case studies for my environment from the manual (section 24) are:

1) Phone to 20s using mobile phone pairing, followed by gps to 20s using second mobile phone pairing.
2) Phone to GPS using mobile phone pairing, followed by gps to 20s using mobile phone pairing (not second).
3) GPS to 20s using mobile phone pairing, followed by phone to 20s using second mobile phone pairing.
4) Phone to 20s using mobile phone pairing, followed by gps to 20s using mobile phone pairing.

Case 1 and 3 are identical, just reverses order.
Case 2 and 4 attempt to make the GPS the hub. My preference, but SENA tech support recommended #1

What doesn't work:

1) First in any of these cases I can make the Sena crash. Hard crash and power off. All you have to do is pair with any SMH10 with your 20s. Then factory reset your 20s. Now follow one of the above configs (I verified 1,2 and 3). Now pair your 20s with the SMH10 again (your pairing was lost due to your factory reset). When you go into intercom pairing, your unit will crash. Not a huge problem as long as everyone in your riding group doesn't mind factory resetting their devices when you change your programming.

2) Multitasking seems to only work with my phone. When I get a call, it will override the intercom, putting the intercom in the background. The second my GPS makes an announcement, any audio conference is disconnected and WILL NEVER reconnect. I have to reconnect manually. What a PITA this is, SMH10 worked much better. Technically this is not what the manual says. It says that the intercom conversation has priority and will put everything else in the "background". I'll take either.

3) The FM radio is a joke, but who cares.

At this point I would be totally happy to get back to SMH10 functionality.

So here comes the challenge. I will donate $25 to the charity of your choosing if you can find a method that accomplishes the following behavior in my environment.

1) When the GPS announces a direction, the active intercom conversation remains connected (audio multitasking) per the manual. The GPS will be in the background, but audible, the audio conference continues. My unit behaves as if audio multitasking is disabled, but it is not.

2) When an audio conference is interrupted for any reason, GPS, or phone. It will automatically reconnect to the audio conference. I'm not sure why it ever would disconnect with audio multitasking on, but hey, mine does all the time.

I have taken my MS degree in computer science and 25 years in technology and basically devolved to banging my head on the wall.

Sena support is not a workable solution. They can be helpful, they will offer something to try, but I go on about 4 big group rides per year, and getting a bunch of friends over the try Sena's latest recommendation is not feasible. So on each trip I have tried a new combination. I am out of options.

 

[waxrash]

From SENA:

1. Turn on the headset and press the Jog Dial for 6 seconds until the
red LED is rapidly flashing and you hear multiple beeps.
2. Within 2 seconds, tap the Phone Button and hear the voice prompt,
“Second mobile phone pairing”. Again within 2 seconds, tap
the Phone Button and the LED turns to green flashing and the
beeps turn to multiple mid-toned beeps. You will hear the voice
prompt, “GPS pairing”.
3. Search for Bluetooth devices on the GPS navigation screen.
Select the Sena 20S in the list of the devices detected on the GPS.

So this is saying the GPS should be the second phone pairing.
But hit the phone button TWO TIMES to get to GPS pairing.
Did I miss that in the manual?

I downloaded the latest manual. This is in there:

5.4.1 GPS Pairing

1. Turn on the headset and press the Jog Dial for 6 seconds until the
red LED is rapidly flashing and you hear multiple beeps.
2. Within 2 seconds, tap the Phone Button and hear the voice prompt,
“Second mobile phone pairing”. Again within 2 seconds, tap
the Phone Button and the LED turns to green flashing and the
beeps turn to multiple mid-toned beeps. You will hear the voice
prompt, “GPS pairing”.
3. Search for Bluetooth devices on the GPS navigation screen.
Select the Sena 20S in the list of the devices detected on the GPS.
4. Enter 0000 for the PIN.
5. The GPS confirms that pairing has completed and the 20S is
ready to use. You will hear a voice prompt from the 20S saying
“Your headset is paired”.
6. If the pairing process is not completed within three minutes, the
20S will return to stand-by mode

 

[waxrash]

Here is another little gem from Sena support.

There is something called GPS pairing which is two taps on the "phone" button.

XXX, there is a pairing method called GPS Pairing that will allow you to hear GPS directions while having an intercom conversation instead of interrupting the conversation. You will need to pair the 20S to your GPS again. Hold down the Jog Dial for 6 seconds, when you hear the voice prompt "intercom pairing" tap the phone button once to hear the voice prompt "Second Mobile Phone Pairing" then tap the phone button one more time to hear the voice prompt "GPS pairing". Then on your GPS, go through the steps of pairing your headset again.

Now that is something I have not tried.

 

[waxrash]

Good conversation with SENA.

http://support.sena.com/entries/55815280-Please-explain-Audio-Multitasking?page=1#post_26495380

 

[AirBender]

Good stuff!

This is a nice thread to follow for those of us who have or may be considering a Sena unit. I look forward to hearing your results with the "GPS Pairing" upon your return Lynn.

 

[AirBender]

GPS Pairing

Hey Lynn,

I'm sure you may have already seen this video...but just in case, I wanted to post it up for you in hope that it might help your testing situations.

Cheers,

Brian

 

[AirBender]

One more....

Actually I think this configuration may be best as this one allows for uninterrupted intercom conversation with GPS navigation. Unfortunately it only allows for music play back in mono sound, not stereo :-(
Sorry, I don't mean to hi-jack your thread....just trying to be helpful.

 

[waxrash]

Answered by SENA

Well I don't like the answer, but I did get one.

Audio Multitasking does not work with your GPS directions. It was never designed to.
I guess they consider music as audio and directions as non-audio (I'll defer to you to explain how I hear it if it is non-audio, but I digress).

Here are the sena responses:


After further discussion with our developers on Audio Multitasking, this feature was designed for reducing the audio of a lower priority function such as music, GPS navigation from a smartphone app (with the Navigation App Support setting disabled), or the FM radio during an intercom conversation. With that said, a GPS device that is paired using GPS Pairing is not considered to be using the Audio Multitasking feature as the GPS directions are being combined with the intercom at a fixed volume level.

With a GPS paired to a 20S using Mobile Phone Pairing (5.4.2 GPS Pairing as Mobile Phone), you will only get Audio Multitasking from listening to the stereo music from the GPS and it being reduced in the background while having an intercom conversation at the same time. The navigation directions you hear from the GPS is using HFP, which has the highest priority, and will interrupt the music and the intercom.


I asked for clarification and got this:

Audio Multitasking will work on a GPS for for audio like the music that is stored on the GPS but not for listening to the navigation. The navigation will either interrupt the intercom if the GPS is paired as a mobile phone or if Audio Multitasking is disable but it will not interrupt the intercom if the GPS is paired using GPS Pairing.


So this means, the only way to get GPS directions without disrupting your conversation is with GPS pairing. (BTW, This will disable stereo music use from your GPS as it's using the HFP rather than A2DP). In this case the audio multitasking feature is not active, the audio is just blended together, i.e. both sources talking at equal volume.

I for one do not believe this is what SENA advertised with audio-multitasking, but at least I have an answer.