looking at the clutch spline via starter removal

[mntngrown]

I was over on Pelican forum learning how to remove the plastic cover for the R1100S starter, (well hidden 5mm hex bolt). Just because I lost a battery bolt down there somewhere, Then I fell down the rabbit hole regarding pulling the starter to see how the clutch spline looks after pulling in the clutch lever and tying it off. Then there was the possible way to lube the spline via that route. I know I saw a post somewhere re adapting a syringe of some kind. But folks on that forum debate the value of lubing the spline at all as failure in their opinion is misalignment of parts cases in some issues of the S
Any input or link to a thread I could not find here?.

 

[jnrugg]

If you scroll down there is a section of similar posts.
Here is one of the links that talks about it.
https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthrea...-To-lube-the-spline-or-not-to-lube-the-spline

Personally, I had the input shaft replaced @ about 28k miles.
It was done by a master mechanic at a BMW dealer and it shifter great afterwards.
I have not touched it since and it still shifts well 100k miles later.
I assume he used BMW parts.


My 2 cents.

 

[pglaves]

Are you chasing a clutch issue or shifting issue or just going exploring? My opinion is that you can't really tell very much looking through the starter hole, and certainly can not get lube where it needs to be from that approach. In very bad cases you can detect slop in the splines but by then it is time to replace both the clutch pats and the transmission input shaft.

 

[pglaves]

Are you chasing a clutch issue or shifting issue or just going exploring? My opinion is that you can't really tell very much looking through the starter hole, and can not get lube where it needs to be from that approach. In very bad cases you can detect slop in the splines but by then it is time to replace both the clutch parts and the transmission input shaft.

 

[BC1100S]

I'm fortunate to live near GSAddict and he has developed a way to lube the splines through the starter hole. He uses a syringe he has made with some sort of "secret sauce" lube.

When I had my "S", this service was part of my annual preventative maintenance. Currently at 137,000km and still running strongly.

 

[pglaves]

He uses a syringe he has made with some sort of "secret sauce" lube.

I don't doubt that. But that sauce needs to flow like a liquid and then stiffen to a heavy, sticky grease. I do have a similar product I use to lube clutch cable barrels but I am not sure I would trust it on splines. But he does know what he is doing so I am not going to criticize long-distance.

 

[mntngrown]

Thanks folks, no issues

PGlaves, I am not experiencing issues. Just thought I would look after tying off the clutch lever to see anything obvious. I have the Tupperware and starter cover off anyway. You seem to say that approach won't show much though. BC has GSAddict ever posted a pic of his syringe tool?
There also is the youtube video of the guy using a tool through the starter hole to rotate the clutch plate and see how much movement before spline engagement. I wonder if that would yield any useful info.

 

[m_stock10506]

....snip.... Then there was the possible way to lube the spline via that route. I know I saw a post somewhere re adapting a syringe of some kind. But folks on that forum debate the value of lubing the spline at all as failure in their opinion is misalignment of parts cases in some issues of the S
Any input or link to a thread I could not find here?.

Here's my take on this. I remove the starter motor, and I tie in the clutch lever to allow the shaft to move. I then use a tiny paintbrush with the bristles cut very short and I use a heavy moly-grease and I "paint" the shaft right where it joins against the clutch hub. I rotate the clutch/shaft and grease the joint all the way around the shaft. My logic is that every time you pull the clutch lever, the spring relaxes and allows the clutch plate to move on the shaft. The movement is very small, but the edge of the hub and shaft keep rubbing against the grease and a little of it get underneath and into the joint between them. I have done this regularly, with my 1100RT. The first time that I tried it, it took about 50 miles of riding, changing gears, and then shifting became noticeably smoother. Each time I do this service, the shifting gets better. I have never taken apart the clutch and shaft to examine or prove this, but it works to my satisfaction. Probably takes about 30-40 minutes extra, when I already have the fairing off for other work. While I am doing that, I usually pop open the ball/sockets of the shift linkage and grease them too. It's still an industrial gearbox, but it really does shift smoothly. Never had an issue with grease getting thrown on the clutch. My current clutch has over 117k miles on it, and the transmission shaft has over 180k miles. The gearbox and shaft were rebuilt shortly after I bought the bike. My two cents. I won't get into an argument about it.

 

[mntngrown]

Sounds good Michael

Might try that as it would be much easier than trying to adapt a syringe and find a "secret sauce" lube for it I think I will have a look in there. Any generic moly lube at the local auto parts store?

 

[m_stock10506]

Might try that as it would be much easier than trying to adapt a syringe and find a "secret sauce" lube for it I think I will have a look in there. Any generic moly lube at the local auto parts store?

Honda Moly 60 was a choice of a lot of folks. I can’t remember what formula I bought, but the stuff from Ted’s beemershop seems like the right stuff. I have a little tiny cup with whatever stuff I bought and most of it still there. I also have a cylinder of the old Honda moly stuff that I use on the shift linkage.

https://www.beemershop.com/product/ts-60-spline-lube.html

 

[Omega Man]

Using the "Tag Cloud" for "spline lube" there is a lot of threads. Here is one-

https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?15715-Spline-Grease

OM

 

[gsaddict]

My "secret" sauce was/is Honda Moly 60.
I scooped a few tubes before it became unobtanium.

 

[mntngrown]

My "secret" sauce was/is Honda Moly 60.
I scooped a few tubes before it became unobtanium.

Well I just ordered the Loctite moly paste since that Honda product is not available, Depending on the consistency I will use it or mix it and do a rookie gee whiz brush application as M Stock described.

 

[BC1100S]

My "secret" sauce was/is Honda Moly 60.

And here I pictured you at a remote location in a lab coat looking like Professor Doc Brown from Back To The Future cooking up various concoctions over steaming beakers and graduated cylinders.

 

[gsaddict]

And here I pictured you in a lab coat in your basement looking like Professor Doc Brown from Back To The Future cooking up various concoctions over steaming beakers and graduated cylinders.

That's my Shine juice.

 

[nrpetersen]

FWIW - although other secret sauces may be just as good, I have advocated something called NevaSeize, maybe thinned with the smallest amount of solvent or motor oil that allows it to be brushed or whatever into the transmission end of the spline engagement without bleeding into the clutch disc faces. It is horrible stuff to get off your hands. A small bent hypodermic would be nice but I have not tried that. Otherwise my current thinking is if there is little tangential play on the clutch disc due to spline backlash (say less than 1/16 inch) don't disassemble to re-lube. I like the concept of painting in a spline lube as described above.

And if you do disassemble it anyway, on assembly first pull in the clutch handle and tie it off before bolting up the clutch housing to the engine. I have become even more convinced that these random misalignment problems have been due to dragging the clutch disc across the flywheel on assembly, and relying on the comparatively flimsy housing and alignment pin structure to force the necessary alignment as the bolts are tightened. Relying on an assembly tool, whether a temporary one or an official BMW one, to only center the clutch disc into the clutch pack is probably inadequate to drag the clutch disc without distorting the housing.

 

[Omega Man]

Personally, I have gotten away from Never-Seize on parts that move or slide. Its great on bolts or fasteners that need to come apart later. It seems that the “carrier liquid” dissipates and leaves a residue that has a friction component with it.
I have found better performing with products in specific applications such as the newer brake lubes.
Of course, YMMV
OM