Is the Blue Ridge Parkway inherently dangerous?

[akbeemer]

I have. And I felt a helluva lot safer there than I do in the US. I felt more at ease riding up Passo dello Stelvio on a lane and a half wide road and passing caravans than I do riding on I-81 in Virginia. Stelvio might be chaos, but it's organized chaos - unlike the sh!t show of 81. The sausage at the top of the hill was a lot better, too.

I once had to drive a US Army M880 (basically a 1970s Dodge Power Wagon) through Milan. I think it must have been rush hour, but then I think it is always rush hour in Milan. I remember trying to navigate my way through a roundabout. It was around six lanes wide and full of very small cars, the drivers of which saw no reason to maintain a lane or signal any maneuver. For a brief moment I tried to drive responsibly, signal my lane changes and stay aware of and avoid the other vehicles around me. It quickly became evident that such an approach was not going to work, so i just pointed my truck where I wanted to go and, while moving at a "reasonable' speed paid no attention to whatever carnage ensued behind me. Just imagine trying to maneuver a Nimitz Class Supercarrier through a small boat regatta in a small harbor and you can get a sense of what it was like. The meek may inherit the earth, but they will never make it through Italian traffic.

 

[22600]

I once had to drive a US Army M880 (basically a 1970s Dodge Power Wagon) through Milan. I think it must have been rush hour, but then I think it is always rush hour in Milan. I remember trying to navigate my way through a roundabout. It was around six lanes wide and full of very small cars, the drivers of which saw no reason to maintain a lane or signal any maneuver. For a brief moment I tried to drive responsibly, signal my lane changes and stay aware of and avoid the other vehicles around me. It quickly became evident that such an approach was not going to work, so i just pointed my truck where I wanted to go and, while moving at a "reasonable' speed paid no attention to whatever carnage ensued behind me. Just imagine trying to maneuver a Nimitz Class Supercarrier through a small boat regatta in a small harbor and you can get a sense of what it was like. The meek may inherit the earth, but they will never make it through Italian traffic.

_______________________________________________________________________________

That's the way traffic works in China and Taiwan; Big Trucks Rule and everyone else stays out of the way.

 

[Visian]

I have. And I felt a helluva lot safer there than I do in the US. I felt more at ease riding up Passo dello Stelvio on a lane and a half wide road and passing caravans than I do riding on I-81 in Virginia. Stelvio might be chaos, but it's organized chaos - unlike the sh!t show of 81. The sausage at the top of the hill was a lot better, too.

I suggest you try something other than the tourist roads, e.g. the expressways around Milano, at rush hour!

I once had to drive a US Army M880 (basically a 1970s Dodge Power Wagon) through Milan. I think it must have been rush hour, but then I think it is always rush hour in Milan. I remember trying to navigate my way through a roundabout. It was around six lanes wide and full of very small cars, the drivers of which saw no reason to maintain a lane or signal any maneuver. For a brief moment I tried to drive responsibly, signal my lane changes and stay aware of and avoid the other vehicles around me. It quickly became evident that such an approach was not going to work, so i just pointed my truck where I wanted to go and, while moving at a "reasonable' speed paid no attention to whatever carnage ensued behind me. Just imagine trying to maneuver a Nimitz Class Supercarrier through a small boat regatta in a small harbor and you can get a sense of what it was like. The meek may inherit the earth, but they will never make it through Italian traffic.

Yeah, like this. Now, be the moto instead of the big truck!

 

[Rick del Monte]

What I meant when I said that driving at the speed limit in Texas can be scary, is that the average speeds in Dallas have gotten so high that you will get run over. On local freeways I like to ride at the speed of traffic in the left lane. I have often looked down to see that I am going 85-86mph. Too darn fast. But if you stay in the right lane you get the cars that dive-bomb the exit at the last second. As someone mentioned, once out of town the speeds settle down. It doesn't make any sense: why speed up when you hit traffic in town?

I will probably be accused of being a communist, but bring back red light cameras. Behavior at traffic lights has gotten atrocious. The thinking seems to be that if your are within one second of the light turning red, then it's OK to go. Remember the days when if you were turning left you waited till the light turned yellow, then went ahead? Today that would be suicide.

Ok, rant over. Back to the parkway.

 

[pglaves]

It doesn't make any sense: why speed up when you hit traffic in town?

Yes it does. It is a combination of "they won't stop me, I won't stand out" and the fact that LEOs know that if they do stops amid heavy traffic there will be lots of chain reaction crashes. So absent a fear of much enforcement drivers speed up just because they think they can get away with it. It is rather typical mob behavior. That is why speed cameras work. You get the court date in the mail and the LEO isn't in danger beside your vehicle.

 

[22600]

Yes Cameras work well

Here in Taiwan there are cameras everywhere, every intersection, highway, secondary road, stores. homes, etc.
You can't scratch your ass without getting caught. And these police camera crews catch everyone. You steal a candy bar in Taipei, they can track you all the way to your home in Taichung and watch you eat it on the way.

An Italian man recently robbed a store, jumped on stolen scooter, rode a few blocks, went into an underground garage and changed clothes, walked out the other side got into a cab and went to another store, then eventually to where he lived. Yup, they caught him, tracked him all over town. Speeders, robbers, killers, kidnappers, they all get caught. The popo's ride around in their cars with their lights flashing that way you know their coming and they know you know their coming. So, if you are doing something wrong, you stop it before they get there, that way there's no confrontation. Cops are very easy going here in Taiwan, not so much in China though.

I guess in the states though if you robbed a bank, the camera police would track you until they found your address and then send you a notice that you are under arrest and pending a future virtual trial you could be sentenced or not if the amount of money was not over the limit set by the local equity court.

 

[Omega Man]

Yes it does. It is a combination of "they won't stop me, I won't stand out" and the fact that LEOs know that if they do stops amid heavy traffic there will be lots of chain reaction crashes. So absent a fear of much enforcement drivers speed up just because they think they can get away with it. It is rather typical mob behavior. That is why speed cameras work. You get the court date in the mail and the LEO isn't in danger beside your vehicle.

As an aside, my information lends to cameras and camera operations are done by a vendor hired (read concept sold to) by a municipality.
I find third party vested interests problematic.
OM

 

[pglaves]

As an aside, my information lends to cameras and camera operations are done by a vendor hired (read concept sold to) by a municipality.
I find third party vested interests problematic.
OM

Me too. For many cities they are a rip off. Speed cameras are pretty straight forward. Red light camera operation has become highly corrupt. They shorten the yellow times below engineering standards to get more vehicles entering on red. These ought to be outlawed.

 

[jr31]

Yes. Add laws.

Always better.

 

[Omega Man]

Me too. For many cities they are a rip off. Speed cameras are pretty straight forward. Red light camera operation has become highly corrupt. They shorten the yellow times below engineering standards to get more vehicles entering on red. These ought to be outlawed.

Well, we seem to be off course on the original thread concept…….but not really. Intersections around here are running “scene comparative software” which alters intersection timing based on traffic flow in general and specifically programmed for heavy commute times. We can have a green so short the yellow will be in play before the single car that “tripped” the function is clear of the intersection. With a slow tractor-trailer, the light can be red.
Non-standard or recently changed traffic light timing changes can effect most anyone easily.
A newly traffic controlled intersection close by has red arrows and an overhead sign that says “ right turn on red after stop”. This is at the beginning of the ramp. I predict this will be easy to miss and numerous rear-end collisions.
OM

 

[davidsanders]

I suggest you try something other than the tourist roads, e.g. the expressways around Milano, at rush hour!



Yeah, like this. Now, be the moto instead of the big truck!

I don't ride around in big cities in the US so why would I want to go to Italy (or anywhere else in Europe) and ride around in big cities when there are so many great roads in the mountains? I've driven in European cities for the past 40 years but I find that when visiting one it's a lot easer to park it and take public transportation since it's so much more convenient.

 

[Rick del Monte]

Me too. For many cities they are a rip off. Speed cameras are pretty straight forward. Red light camera operation has become highly corrupt. They shorten the yellow times below engineering standards to get more vehicles entering on red. These ought to be outlawed.

Paul, I agree with you it is a total money making rip-off. I hate the things. That tells you how bad I think it has gotten for me to think they should be brought back. Thank goodness we don't have any on the Blue Ridge Parkway.

 

[Omega Man]

Unless this has been circumvented-

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confrontation_Clause

Including maintenance, testing, current certification and weather conditions.

A friend of mine lives in Phoenix-

. https://www.abc15.com/news/operation-safe-roads/will-phoenix-red-light-cameras-be-re-activated

OM

 

[jr31]

Absent quantifiable harm to property or persons, all law enforcement (including the mechanical and human kinds) is purely a revenue-generating scheme.

And as the fines rise, it becomes less and less sustainable for the people that can afford it the least and are most likely to be cited (for their own good, of course).

If I lost my license because of repeated violations, I could employ a personal driver (who could live in a guest structure). Most people are not in that position...but they keep voting for an environment in which those fees increase.

Every ticket "deserved". No dollar left behind.

Pay the tickets...for your country! It's really a form of loving your neighbor, right?

 

[nickrides]

Back to the BRP being dangerous
I've read the speed limit is 45; correct?
Absent of the fog, thats really pretty low cruising speed
But I have friends who are getting bikes for the first time and they are in there 60's and don't ride bicycles, thats pretty sketchy. Before I first got on a MC when I was 14 we lived on our bicycles growing up in Venice Beach Ca.
By 14 I imagine I had over 2000 mile on my bike. Lotta knowledge and experience gained pre MC there.
Nick

 

[Visian]

I don't ride around in big cities in the US so why would I want to go to Italy (or anywhere else in Europe) and ride around in big cities when there are so many great roads in the mountains? I've driven in European cities for the past 40 years but I find that when visiting one it's a lot easer to park it and take public transportation since it's so much more convenient.

Who said anything about driving in big cities? I said riding around big cities.

When one rides through Germany, Switzerland, France, Italy, Greece, Albania, Montenegro, Croatia, Slovenia and Austria all on one tour, using ferries in between several of these countries, it’s pretty darned hard not to have to at least skirt major metropolitan areas.

Here, enjoy one of my typical tours…. I left out most of the big cities for you!

 

[easy]

I have ridden a good bit on the BRP, some on a Harley Electra-Glide, some on a Triumph Tiger, and on a number of BMW bikes (K75S, R11RS, R100RS, R100GSPD, R1200RT). I agree that the BRP is a very easy, low stress ride. Many of the roads coming up the mountains (or going down) are much more difficult; many of those connector roads have 55 mph speed limits, which is way faster than I'll go in some sections.

Early morning and late afternoon are times that I will not ride on the BRP due to the many deer present. During the mid-day hours it is very pleasant and one would do well to make use of the many turn-outs to view the scenery. I do know of some that tried looking whilst riding and crashed. I believe that Don Tilley (owner of Tilley's Harley Davidson dealership in NC) was killed a few years back in this manner.

Riding a bike that one is unfamiliar with is often a recipe for a crash.

Nothing wrong with taking it easy. If traffic builds up behind you, then use a turn-off to let folks go on past. I have always thought that if one is in a hurry, the you are doing it wrong.

View attachment 84964

Good point.

On roadways like the BRP people driving cars generally pay more attention to the scenery, wildlife, and beauty of the parkway than they pay to other drivers especially motorcycles - add that to the rain, fog, etc., and you can have a real problem. Others think they are on their first lap at Le Mans. When you're on the BRP you have to pick a safe speed and stick to it. Don't let the moron in back of you dictate your safety.

If you think the BRP is dangerous, you need to take a trip on Highway 1. Every time ride on Highway 1 it reminds me of the Randy Newman song, It's Money that I Love. People drive like they snorted a half pound of cocaine, and have an 19-year-old girl in the car with them. Insanity. (The girl in the song was not 19, but I want to keep the conversation age appropriate.) In fact, that may be where Newman got his inspiration for the song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRYg2mvT_Ow

Anyway, that's just my opinion.

E.

 

[jr31]

I've ridden the 1 from Stinson Beach to Mendocino at least 100 times in my life. It is no more and no less dangerous than any other similar track. When it gets crowded...it gets crowded. That increases risk because of variables outside of one's control. But that's not an inherent issue (it's the opposite of inherent; it's transitory). I presume the same goes for BRP.

No matter what, we can solve it with citations.

 

[easy]

I've ridden the 1 from Stinson Beach to Mendocino at least 100 times in my life. It is no more and no less dangerous than any other similar track. When it gets crowded...it gets crowded. That increases risk because of variables outside of one's control. But that's not an inherent issue (it's the opposite of inherent; it's transitory). I presume the same goes for BRP.

No matter what, we can solve it with citations.

Totally agree. And there are numerous ways citations can be safely given.

E.

 

[jr31]

Totally agree. And there are numerous ways citations can be safely given.

E.

Making the world safe for extortion.

Smooth move.