How do you keep someone off the road?

[knary]

A local story begs the question.

<hr>PORTLAND, Ore. - An 87-year-old driver who was unconscious behind the wheel and who nearly ran other drivers off the road does not seem to understand the danger she posed.

"I've driven since I was 17 and I'm 57," Alma McKnight told KATU News in an exclusive interview. "I've never had a ticket and I've never had an accident. It's age discrimination."

McKnight is actually 87 years old, not 57, which she later clarified. She has a suspended license due to a medical condition.

Still, she drove around northeast Portland Wednesday and created quite a stir in the area of Northeast 160th Avenue and Sandy Boulevard.

Officers were called there after several people called 911 saying a blue Cadillac was swerving all over the place and running red lights.

"Ya, you guys might want to get an officer out on Sandy Boulevard. There's a car swerving everywhere. It's like the lady's passed out.
"He went into the other lane, like almost head-on collided with two cars."
"And I've got this car coming directly at me in a head-on collision course," said Sgt. Dave Steele, who was almost nailed as McKnight drove down Sandy Boulevard onto Northeast 162nd Avenue.

Police ended up using a gentle version of a PIT maneuver to stop the wild ride. "Normally it's on a bad guy," said Steele. "I don't like doing it to an old lady."

When told about the 911 calls that came flooding in saying she was on the wrong side of the road and running red lights, McKnight said she would never do those things.

"That's wrong," McKnight said. "I never drive on the wrong side of the road. I would never run a red light. Never."

"We were really concerned that she was either going to run somebody over or get in a serious wreck and somebody's going to die," said Steele.

Steele said McKnight was confused about what happened. "She really didn't know who we were," said Steele. "She didn't realize it was the police or know anything about the sirens."

McKnight said she has no intention of putting the brakes on her road trips, even if she does end up getting ticketed. She said she only drives during the day and has to go out to get prescriptions and food.

"I'm gonna get my car and I'm going to keep driving," she said.

McKnight thinks she only drove two blocks, but friends said she want all the way to the Kmart on Sandy Boulevard, which is more than a seven-mile round trip.<hr>​

Should her car be confiscated? Why not? How else could we keep a person like this off the road?

Serious question.

 

[belquar]

I think you would run into difficulties confiscating her car initially. But once she is a repeat offender I think it would be easier. If she is driving on a suspended, they can almost surely impound the vehicle. If it is a felony, I believe they can seize the vehicle. I don't know though.

The elder community in this country is rapidly posing a greater and greater threat on the roadways. More and more folks are living longer and it is scary out there. They either drive erratically or really slow or take to long to perform a certain task i.e. backing out onto a roadway from a driveway.

My neighbor is 98 years old. She lives alone and drives herself everywhere. When she backs out of her driveway the transition from R to D is excruciatingly long. People driving down the road see a person back out in the distance and expect them to be moving when they get there. When she is still sitting there more than a minute later shocks some people and results in hard braking in front of my house at least once a week. Her problem is that she puts it in D and then tries to crank the steering wheel around to the direction she wants to go before rolling a little to ease up on the tension in the wheel.

Also are the left turning at 1 mph. When you are closing at 50+ mph and someone turns left in front of you they need to do it with some haste. The old people do it just as slow as ever. Dangerous.

I am not discriminating against all old people. More than once I have been passed by on elder who wanted to drive much faster than me. I just have a problem with them becoming a traffic hazard by do stuff outside of what is normal on the roadways. 40 in a 65, super slow turns, needing a mile of clearance to pull onto a major roadway etc.

My grandmother has made a conscious decision to not drive anymore. She forgets where she is going and why she is going there and just doesn't want the risk. My Dad's father has always been a bad elderly driver. For years he had a collection of mailboxes in the front yard and he usually kept a new one to replace the ones he hit. He just fell asleep at the wheel all the time. Probably from boredom because it took so long to go anywhere at 40mph.

 

[testinglogin]

My neighbors father (89 years old) finally gave up driving, because he didn't feel he was safe, anymore. He just didn't renew his license on his birthday. It's a bit more work for my neighbor (one of the good ones who will actually help them get food and prescriptions), but he'd rather drive him around than have him crash into someone/something. I wish everyone was as courteous!

 

[MOTOR31]

Impounding the car and making it stick are going to be tough things to do unless there is a statute to allow it. There are constitutional issues with a govt. entity taking legally owned property without compensation as a general rule. Remember her possession of the property (car) is not illegal, just her operation of it on the roadway.

If her license is suspended that's about all the State can do for it.

She would have to be adjudicated as incapable of caring for herself or being a danger to herself and others before she could be involuntarily committed to some kind of care. Just bad driving wouldn't cut it but could be a factor in a commitment hearing. If there is family they could do it easier than the State could.

It's a tough situation and as the population age shifts higher and higher it will come up more often.

 

[JUNKLE]

Perhaps some of these people who don't have family just need someone willing to "adopt" them and see to their needs. I sure wouldn't want to be cooped up at home so a ride with someone else might make it much easier for some of them to give up the keys.

just my 2 cents,

j

 

[wuli959]

stuff a bunny up her tail pipe

 

[knary]

stuff a bunny up her tail pipe

 

[RGVILLA]

make arrangements to get her a ride and take her car keys so she can't drive. Avert a tragedy. Thankfully my 88 year old mother in law (who lives in Portland as well) agreed to sell her VW rabbit and now my brother and sister in law give her rides. Good luck, it's a tough situation.

 

[YELLOW_S]

I really think anyone over 55 years old should take a drivers test at least once every two years. Written, and driving around test.


There are so many people that should be driving that are... One of reason I want to move to Europe... They have there problems, but not nearly as bad as it here.

 

[boofer]

I really think anyone over 55 years old should take a drivers test at least once every two years. Written, and driving around test.


There are so many people that should be driving that are... One of reason I want to move to Europe... They have there problems, but not nearly as bad as it here.

Me 56....senile one year now.....driving around test, good!

I don't need no english....just some of the drugs you took in class

 

[RIDERR1150GSADV]

I really think anyone over 55 years old should take a drivers test at least once every two years. Written, and driving around test.


There are so many people that should be driving that are... One of reason I want to move to Europe... They have there problems, but not nearly as bad as it here.

What tests?? There is virtually no drivers-ed in this country to speak of at all.
In the USA too many people assume that driving is a right and this is not the case. It is a PRIVILEGE and with that comes responsibility, a word not much in use these days, as all we hear is talk about our rights.......

 

[CTHalk]

My last ride with my 85 year old great aunt...

...was a wild ride. Her style had devolved into keeping her foot down on the gas, and the steering wheel held tight. The ride was a series of straight, fast lines, with abrupt direction changes. It scared the crap out of me! I love her dearly, but she was beyond the age where she could drive safely. After some discussion on the matter, she reluctantly stopped driving. She was always a very independent woman, having travelled around the world with her sister, back when women didn't travel alone. She visited places that don't exist by name anymore, or are closed to Westerners now. Her advice for traveling in third-world countries? "Always wear gloves, because you just don't know who has touched what". It was sad to see her abilities decline. We may all go down that road someday. I am sure it is very hard to give up independence. I knew two elderly ladies who used to drive together to do errands. The one with the license was legally blind. Her friend could see, but had no license. So, the blind woman drove, and the other woman called out directions..."a little to the left..to the right...slow down" etc. Their rationale? The (blind) woman with the license drove, because she had a license. It would be illegal for the woman without the license to drive! True story! My solution for my old age? I will hire a high-school kid to drive me around in my ride. I figure at that advanced age, I won't be scared of his driving, and he will be willing to drive for next to nothing pay!

 

[dbrick]

My Dad's a fine man with a zest for life. He'll be 92 in April, began driving in the mid-1920s, and last drove in September. It was time for him to stop. At the moment, he's recovering from vascular surgery in a local rehab facility, working on getting back enough strength to move back home. (He and my stepmom usually stay three days at his house, three days at hers, and one apart.)

I've told him that his attention, dexterity, and strength no longer allow him to drive. He says he agrees and will have to trust my judgment...but I don't wholly trust him. Last Sunday, I went over to his house, put up the hood on his car, removed the high tension cable between the coil and the distributor, and hid it.

 

[Emoto]

...was a wild ride. Her style had devolved into keeping her foot down on the gas, and the steering wheel held tight. The ride was a series of straight, fast lines, with abrupt direction changes. It scared the crap out of me! I love her dearly, but she was beyond the age where she could drive safely. After some discussion on the matter, she reluctantly stopped driving. She was always a very independent woman, having travelled around the world with her sister, back when women didn't travel alone. She visited places that don't exist by name anymore, or are closed to Westerners now. Her advice for traveling in third-world countries? "Always wear gloves, because you just don't know who has touched what". It was sad to see her abilities decline. We may all go down that road someday. I am sure it is very hard to give up independence. I knew two elderly ladies who used to drive together to do errands. The one with the license was legally blind. Her friend could see, but had no license. So, the blind woman drove, and the other woman called out directions..."a little to the left..to the right...slow down" etc. Their rationale? The (blind) woman with the license drove, because she had a license. It would be illegal for the woman without the license to drive! True story! My solution for my old age? I will hire a high-school kid to drive me around in my ride. I figure at that advanced age, I won't be scared of his driving, and he will be willing to drive for next to nothing pay!

Holy crap! I knew two old ladies like that, too! One couldn't see well and one couldn't hear well. I worked retail at the time and when we saw them pull into the parking lot, one of use would yell "PILOT TO CO-PILOT!"

Back to Knary's question, I think if the police decide that a crime has been committed, then the car could be impounded as evidence, at least for a while. Really, the best thing to do would be for the cops to find and talk to her family. She will kill someone if she continues to drive.

 

[godzilla]

This reminds me of an old fella back in my hometown back in 70's. I was about 14 or so and a buddy and I were hitchiking from his house out in the sticks to my house in town. This old geezer stopped to pick us up in his 1920's vintage Dodge. He was old, probably into his 90's. He drove about 20MPH tops the 5 or 6 miles into town, regaling us with old stories.

Soon after that, I got a job at an auto body shop on the corner of Main and Broad Streets in town. I'd see the old guy in his old Dodge come putting up the street. He woudn't stop for red lights or anything. I don't know how he ever survived. TO my knowledge, he never had an accident. One of my classmates at school was a nieghbor of the old guy, so I got to find out more about him.

The old fella passed away not too long after that, sadly. He was a nice old man. I missed watching him run the lights in town, though!

 

[OUTBACKUFO]

My Grandfather on my moms side was a top engineer once upon a time in WWII... he drove until 86... then gave my mom and aunt the keys... he had a couple of close calls and knew, which was the said part, that he should not be drivign any more... even if he could still remember his Logorythim conversion tables from memory until he died at 89...


My mother wants to be strapped to the top of her care and then driven around when she get too old..

 

[TheSlashFiveTourer]

I really think anyone over 55 years old should take a drivers test at least once every two years. Written, and driving around test.

GOOD POINT! Written and driving around tests for Old People. Well taken. But ’55?’ That’s a bit much, don't you think? At ‘55’, you’re still . . . a youngster - albeit a balding, paunchy or grey-haired youngster. You’re probably still working, still supporting a family, still dreaming of the day you leave the idiot bosses behind and finally retire - unless you’re one of the idiot bosses and then what do you do?

At ’55,’ you’re not yet a fully-qualified senior citizen; your pension assistance and social security benefits are still some years in the future. At ’55,’ you’re still driving that Greyhound bus down the highway responsible for the 45 souls on board in your care. '55?' You’re barely qualified to be in the pilot-in-command of a Boeing 747 or Airbus A-340 with a couple hundred people sitting behind you trusting in your abilities to ‘get it up’ and put it down without bending the airframe and spoiling their day.

’55?’ You can’t even walk into the local Wal-Mart on Seniors Tuesday and get a 10% discount on your monthly supply of denture cleanser or eardrops to prevent wax buildup. Geez!

Naw, ‘55’ for compulsory driving tests ain’t gonna cut it with this Senior. However, once you start collecting social security monies from the guv’mint, I do believe a driving test every three years should be mandatory until . . . 80. After 80, well, I dunno, I dunno - but I’ll let you know. By that time, BMW MOA will have bestowed upon me an Honorary Lifetime Membership in the association and my life, perhaps, will be complete. And I won’t need a driving test for my walker!

. . . One of reason I want to move to Europe... They have there problems, but not nearly as bad as it here.

Nuthin’ personal, bub, but let me know when you’re leaving. I’ll be down at the Shawnee bus terminal waving goodbye as your 55-year old Greyhound driver heads The Dog east. Have a nice trip - but watch out for those over-55 drivers on the Autobahn! ` `

SlashFiveTourer (Old Person at Large - and still on two wheels!) ` `
`

 

[TheSlashFiveTourer]

Me 56....senile one year now.....driving around test, good!

I don't need no english....just some of the drugs you took in class

Well said, well said! ` ` ` ` ` `

 

[knary]

I'd be happy if we ALL had to take driving tests at regular intervals. What I learned at 16 isn't necessarily well retained 20 years later. My driving habits are mostly that, habits, not the product of education, skill, and understanding.

 

[tourunigo]

I really think anyone over 55 years old should take a drivers test at least once every two years. Written, and driving around test.


There are so many people that should be driving that are... One of reason I want to move to Europe... They have there problems, but not nearly as bad as it here.

.... could we make that 60 maybe? However, I do understand your point. My night vision is beginning to suck a bit so I try and modify things to suit it. Overall though, I think everyone should be tested under many types of driving conditions (for example, just look at those who get a license in the summer and then get out and drive in the snow come winter). As a side note, one of the things that I taught my two sons (a few years ago) to do is slolem in reverse using mirrors (on a cage with standard tranny of course). A fun game. Maybe we should be more selective and stringent as in Europe. -Bob (60 minus 2)