Dyna Beads

[MotorradMike]

Just got a reply from continental tire two wheel divison,they say they never did a study on weather dyna-beads work or not,they would not endorse beads either good or bad.Now waiting for metzlers reply.

You're wasting your time, it's all been done before.

I've used them for several years & I'd offer my opinion but it has been deemed worthless.

Amen to that brother.

 

[warredon]

Some bike tire manufacturers (Michelin for one) have stopped marking the light spot on the tire with a paint dot because manufacturing tolerances are so good, there is no light spot.

This is true, but both of my wheels being so far out of balance is the reason I still need to use my balancer.

 

[warredon]

I just installed my first set of Pirelli Angel tires on my K1. After only about 200 miles I really like them. Both tires needed almost no weights, but with the wheels being so far out of balance, I needed 45 grams on the front and 43 grams on the rear. I have always had to add a lot of weight to those wheels. The ride is smooth as glass after balancing, but I was trying to get rid of all the weights when I tried the Dyna Beads a couple sets of tires ago.

 

[kantuckid]

I post this query whenever it becomes pertinent to the subject. Background: I worked in a tire plant & unless process has changed, tires are handmade. When I read about the tolerance being tight, to me that means they got a bunch of robots hired in or the tire builders are on a sobriety kick or something ? Goes like this-The tubeless innerliner then the plies go on the drum and the builder tears off the ply fabric and tries for a certain width splice, then sticks it down. If the guess is a bit off he pulls the stretchy ply & then it sorta fits the splice width design. If he runs out of fabric he adds a piece to make it longer & a certain number of these splices are allowed to accommodate defects he sees in the fabric,etc.. This happens for the belts too. The drum the tire is built on inflates and then the ends come inward & the carcass edges fold over the bead rings(which always seemed fairly precision to me) & then the tread is wrapped around the tire carcass and the guy beats the sticky tread splice together as the machine rotates while applying pressure to the tread, thus "stitching" it to the carcass. The drum deflates and it goes to green inspection where someone looks & thousands of green tires per shift & repairs are made(can be an open tread splice,chunk of"junk" from floor,mfg process,etc., in tire & other fixable defects before spraying a slurry on the tire that includes silicone release goop to help it come out of the mold. After curing the final inspection includes eyeballing the tire plus other inspections that vary with the mfg and how fussy they might be. Balance,concentricity, structural integrity,etc., can come into the process.
So, you tell me-whats changed since my 60' & 70's days? Tires are not poured in a mold and all come out the same unless much has changed, & I really doubt that. At Goodyear we didn't build MC tires but I seriously think they are still handmade,so lets have a modern day expert step forward & tell us whats changed other than the tread compounding that's constantly touted in all the ads. As to balance being better, the only way that's going to happen based on my (outdated?) experience is to throw away more tires before the sale.
I'm getting to where I like these bead threads better than oil! On another bike forum they place all oil & other burdensome threads in one related bunch.
I suggested this before, but why not get a REAL! tire expert, not a salesperson that thinks they know, I mean a real tire expert on MC tires to offer a seminar on them at the national? This could include balance , construction (at least the not a secret stuff) and more. It's time for some reality in the tire info. The tire articles I've seen in ON & the rest of the MC magazines are little more than a free ad & payback for some revenue. I hope the "right people" are listening?

 

[rxcrider]

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/features/122_0311_michelin_tire/index.html

looks like you were pretty much up to speed in 2009

 

[BC1100S]

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/features/122_0311_michelin_tire/index.html

looks like you were pretty much up to speed in 2009

And there's been a sea change since that article was written. They refer to the new Michelin manufacturing process at the end...

"As soon as C3M technology can be validated and made appropriate for large-scale production (possibly as soon as next year (2010), an anonymous Michelin rep says), the techniques employed at Lasarte will be effectively obsolete, and production motorcycle tires will be even better."

I believe Pirelli is also using this same process now. If you've noticed, Michelin performance tires are much lighter than they used to be. Less weight = less heat = less wear.

 

[kantuckid]

At the time I worked as a plant mechanic/millwright for Goodyear, we started production of radial passenger tires using segmented molds for curing(as did Michelin-the originale with radials) during the last several years I was there. There were many failures,i.e., scrapped tires ,machine changes,etc., that were made until the tires came out as designed. I was also aware of the fact that Michelin was a company that protected there process to the extent that employees were not allowed access to the whole plant, just their respective area. There were even curtain/walls to protect each part from export to a competitor. Hard to imagine that they would expose it all to a bike mag! It was known around Goodyear that efforts to move from handmade tires had never been successful to that date-I left in 1973 .
Maybe they have it figured out? What difference will it make? Unless the tolerances change, none IMO. Tires lighter has to be a result of stronger ply/belt materials. Most of those have been in use for many years now? "As soon as" = sea change...?

 

[BC1100S]

Maybe they have it figured out? What difference will it make? Unless the tolerances change, none IMO. Tires lighter has to be a result of stronger ply/belt materials. Most of those have been in use for many years now? "As soon as" = sea change...?

You're exactly right, closer tolerances are a direct result of taking the human element out of the process.

Before Bridgestone became the spec tire for MotoGP, Michelin could and would manufacture a new tire for Valentino Rossi between final qualifying on Saturday afternoon and the race on Sunday. All due to automation. A lot has changed in the 40 years since 1973. And its all for the good.

 

[kantuckid]

I just did a quick survey of what google gave me on tire construction & everything I found looked much like the 1973 version in my minds eye. The tire builder I saw was on a machine @ Bridgestone- the same I've repaired before in the 1970's.
Honestly, I'd like to know if they licked the handmade thing in tire production? Saturday to Sunday is a bit vague. A tire builder could knock one out quickly too, so nothing really said there as they did many per shift. The quota for a small tire used to be in the hundred/hundreds per shift. To go in and change a spec is more about materials as they affect performance on the track than automated processes? I have not seen anything new yet in my search, except mention of kevlar.
Time to get to work! Retirement calls!