Battery Woes

[pglaves]

The bike in question is my G310GS but the issue is the battery which may apply to any bike so I am posting this in Motorrad. The short version is that I was riding along and the bike died dead with no obvious sign of electrons.

The longer version follows. Voni and I were taking a ride to and around Big Bend National Park which is about 30 miles from our house. In total it was a 136 mile ride. We were back within about 5 miles from the house, riding along at about 75 mph when the engine just quit. The dash display went blank and my GPS displayed that it had lost power. After I coasted as far as I could I stopped on the shoulder. Turning the key off and on made no difference whatsoever. Ugh!

Since I have on very rare occasions gone into a restaurant or other establishment for a while, having left my key on, I now often carry one of those little lithium-ion "jump start" power packs. I also have the simple plug-in harnesses for the device wired directly to the batteries of both of our G310s. Sometimes planning trumps luck: sometimes not.

I took the little power pack from my tank bag, and plugged the bike in to the power pack. Key on - lights and other things powered up. I started the bike. Then I unplugged the power pack and the bike went electron dead again. So I plugged it back in and again started the bike. Ignoring the instructions that came with the power pack I decided to leave it connected and ride the bike home. Lacking any good place to put the power pack I set it on the seat, got on sitting on it and rode the 5 miles home.

I tested the battery with a simple volt meter. It displayed just a bit over .7 volts (seven tenths of a volt). So I did some further trouble shooting. I keep an old, feeble Odyssey battery on my work bench to test bulbs, power a GPS, or some other light load applications. So I set it down beside the bike, connected jumper cables, and started the bike. With this battery connected with the cables the voltage with the bike running was 14.3 volts, indicating that the charging system was working just fine. But as soon as I disconnected a jumper cable the bike died instantly. The bike would/will not run off the alternator with a dead battery. In this case the battery was for all practical purposes an open circuit.

This is a classic case of a broken inter-cell or inter-plate connector inside the battery. When this happens it is possible to get very low voltage readings but the battery will produce or pass virtually no current. Sometimes a no-load voltage might seem normal but as soon as any load is applied the voltage goes very, very low. I have had this type failure happen a few times before. But in every one of those prior cases the break had happened when I pushed the starter button, not while I was riding down the road.

This is not a failure of the battery chemistry which usually gives a warning of lower voltage and sluggish starting. This was a physical failure of an apparently sound battery with the fracture of an inter-cell or inter-plate connector. These can happen totally without forewarning. The battery in question is a Duralast AZX9 AGM sealed battery that was purchased at an Autozone store in Taos, New Mexico in September, 2019. The bike has been ridden less than 5,000 miles since the battery was installed.

As they make motorcycle batteries smaller and lighter they try to pack more Amp-hours in smaller spaces. And this makes the batteries physically more fragile.

As a reminder: My K75 came OEM with a 30 AH battery. The smaller one which would also fit was a 19 AH battery. Voni's R1100RS and my R1150 came OEM with 18 AH batteries. Voni's F800S came with a 14 AH battery. And the G310GS bikes came with 8 AH batteries. Tiny and fragile. But I have had similar physical internal breakage on my R1150R, my F650 Funduro, and my F650 Dakar and at least one Airhead.

 

[Omega Man]

They expect an awful lot out of these batteries nowadays.

https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?52968-My-battery-died-yesterday

OM

 

[BC1100S]

I find it disappointing that the bike conks out while running. I too have suffered the "running fine before I stopped for fuel" situation but I was thankful to be at a place where I could address the issue and not in the middle of nowhere.

So...why the change in functionality compared to previous bikes, Paul?

 

[pglaves]

I find it disappointing that the bike conks out while running. I too have suffered the "running fine before I stopped for fuel" situation but I was thankful to be at a place where I could address the issue and not in the middle of nowhere.

Believe me, this was very close to the middle of nowhere

So...why the change in functionality compared to previous bikes, Paul?

I don't know. It will take somebody more familiar with circuitry on these bikes to explain why in the past it was sometimes possible for a vehicle to continue running off the alternator (or was it only old generators) with the battery disconnected and it is not possible with today's models.

 

[RadioFlyer]

I wish that Odyssey made power sports batteries in more sizes as they are pretty rugged.

 

[bogdan]

Interesting post. You gave a list of past batteries that took a dive. I wonder if the hot weather in your area shortens battery life ? FWIW..I've spent several months, all told, camping along the river in the Black Gap WMA. I was hunting images...love the Chihuahuan desert. One time I rode in from the Mexican side - had the boys in Boquillas take my KLR across in a boat.

 

[skibum69]

My 640 need another new battery, I've put many in that bike. Last poking around I discovered a big voltage loss that I traced to one circuit and I dug around it and wiggled wires and looked for bad spots. Nothing showed up but the voltage drain went away. No idea how long it's been doing that but hopefully the machine is a little happier now.

I've never had the type of failure you're talking about.

 

[pglaves]

Interesting post. You gave a list of past batteries that took a dive. I wonder if the hot weather in your area shortens battery life ? FWIW..I've spent several months, all told, camping along the river in the Black Gap WMA. I was hunting images...love the Chihuahuan desert. One time I rode in from the Mexican side - had the boys in Boquillas take my KLR across in a boat.

Maybe, but I don't think so in these cases. I understand why heat can have an effect on battery chemistry but don't really see how ten or twenty degrees would cause the metal fractures. Also, some of my failures happened when we lived in Kansas, and one happened in Montana. And we normally go north in the summer.

 

[BC1100S]

OK, someone had to bring it up so it may as well be me....lithium, anybody?

 

[pglaves]

OK, someone had to bring it up so it may as well be me....lithium, anybody?

I considered that. I have two issues: safety and cost. One specialty battery firm offered 4 batteries in the correct size. Three were AGM batteries ranging in cost from $36 to about $80, and the Lithium-Ion alternative was $229.

The Lithium-Ion batteries also seem to continue to pose some fire risk. I have no idea how to quantify that but airline and shipping restrictions at least cause some concern. Not to mention a few cell phone fires.

So I wound up with a genuine - not same as looks like - Yuasa YTX9-BS battery for $77.

 

[mikegalbicka]

Think it might be the rough terrain instead of heat that caused failure?

 

[akbeemer]

Annie had a battery that behaved much the same way as Paul's. We were on our way to Branson and stopped for fuel at Big Timber. Her F800GS would not start after refueling; no power at all. I jumped her from my FJR which also has the battery buried under plastic. In her case the bike started and ran after disconnecting from the FJR. The battery was from Batteries Plus so we rode to Billings and went to their local Batteries Plus outlet. When we pulled up in front of the store I asked Annie to cut-off her engine and try to restart it; it started up normally. The store manager came out and hooked-up a battery tester. The charging system was performing as expected and the battery did not drop below 11v. under load when starting. So off we went. For the next ten days as we rode to Branson and then home by way of Oklahoma & Colorado I had to jump the F800 every 4th or 5th start. I became highly skilled in gaining access to the batteries on her F800GS and my FJR. I should have just purchased a new battery but the battery was fairly new and under warranty. When she pulled into the shop at home I asked her to try to restart the bike and it was completely dead again. I took it out and drove to the Batteries Plus store and had a new one within an hour. I've read some articles about how the connection between cells on AGM batteries can break as Paul described. The articles also described how the power can sometimes arc across the broken connection and temporarily weld the connection between two cells back together. That seems to be an apt description of what we experienced.

 

[Wkoppa]

OK, someone had to bring it up so it may as well be me....lithium, anybody?

I have a lithium Iron battery from Deltran (Battery Tender fame) in my 310 GS. This is my second. The earlier version, a first generation Deltran Lithium Iron, was in my 2013 G650GS. I replaced the stock G650GS battery because it weeped and was not sealed. No issues for the 46k miles I had it. I replaced my stock 310 GS battery hoping for better cold weather starting, which I think it does, marginally. On my way back from the Daytona 200 and Key West (thank you Marcia) I overnighted in Indiana. Risky under most circumstances but there was a Famous Dave's BBQ within walking distance. In the morning it was in the 20's and it did not fire on the first crank. Remembering that if you turn the key on and off it is supposed to excite the Lithium, I did that, it started. So far I have no downsides except they are pretty pricey.


Wayne Koppa
Grayling, MI
#71,449

 

[BC1100S]

So far I have no downsides except they are pretty pricey.

I have the same experience as yourself, 6 years and counting...including the sticker shock.

 

[motormike]

Ah, the dreaded internal battery short strikes again. I really thought we'd gotten past this years ago. In the mid=1990's Yuasa had a large batch of motorcycle batteries that would fail suddenly. Almost always when you hit the starter and put them under load. You'd hear a faint "snap" sound and it was lights out! I suffered two of these types of failures. It turned out the sudden current draw during an engine start would cause one of the internal bridging straps to crack. This was an ongoing problem for a few years as I recall. This is the first time in a long time I've heard of it happening. And I've run Shorai Lithium Iron batteries in bikes...they seem to last forever. I won't run Lithium Iron batteries in a touring bike though, because cold weather starts can be an issue. Like the original poster, I carry a small Lithium Ion battery pack for emergency starting when I'm on the road.

 

[taran1900]

I don't know. It will take somebody more familiar with circuitry on these bikes to explain why in the past it was sometimes possible for a vehicle to continue running off the alternator (or was it only old generators) with the battery disconnected and it is not possible with today's models.

I had a similar battery failure way back when I still had my '94 R1100RS. I had just gotten gas, pushed the starter button and there was a click or snap, and everything went dead. I was travelling with a couple of friends and I got a jump start. This was very close to Atlanta so I was able to ride to a BMW dealer and get a new battery. I figure it was cell failure in the battery. In my case, the battery was around 3 years old and it was the original battery. This was in 1996 and I had well over 100k on the bike by then. I was putting on a lot of miles back then.

This is a rather scary thing, that if you lose your battery like this, the bike will not run without the battery. It could be deadly on the freeway here in the DFW area.

 

[gregfeeler]

I don't know. It will take somebody more familiar with circuitry on these bikes to explain why in the past it was sometimes possible for a vehicle to continue running off the alternator (or was it only old generators) with the battery disconnected and it is not possible with today's models.

Paul, this is a SWAG, but I suspect that the computer circuity on your G310 requires a highly stabilized voltage to function correctly, and that requires a healthy battery to provide that stability. Something the alternator alone can not do.

My weird battery story is about an '88 R100RS I had at one time. After leaving on a trip (go figure) the bike would suddenly shut off for a second or two as if you had turned off the key - totally dead, no lights, nothing. And then it would power back up and the engine would start running again. This would happen randomly but about every 15 to 30 minutes and was highly disconcerting. Sometimes there would be a really impressive backfire.

Turned out to be a bad battery. This despite it would hold well above 11v when starting (so started well), would take a charge, and otherwise acted like a perfectly good battery. I figured this out because I remembered that a friend (also with an R100RS) had the same problem. He'd bought a new battery that had a post bent in shipping. He straightened the post, installed the battery and took off on a trip and then experience the on/off problem which he fixed with a new battery.

Several years later, a couple from one of the mid-Atlantic states rolled into my town on an R100RT with the same symptoms and called me from the Anonymous Book. After some trouble shooting I diagnosed that they had this problem, and we installed a new battery. I heard later they had a zero-problem ride home.

I believe this behavior is just another example of how an internal breakage can manifest itself. Normally, there's continuity inside the battery, but hit the right bump the wrong way and it opens up for just a monument and then closes again. Since switching to Odyssey batteries about ten years ago in all my bikes I've had zero problems. They eventually wear out (I'm getting about 9 years) but give months of warning buy gradually losing the ability to keep a charge for a long time.

 

[pglaves]

Since switching to Odyssey batteries about ten years ago in all my bikes I've had zero problems. They eventually wear out (I'm getting about 9 years) but give months of warning buy gradually losing the ability to keep a charge for a long time.

If only Odyssey made a battery that fit the G310s I would buy them. But they don't, and probably won't.

 

[pglaves]

Paul, this is a SWAG, but I suspect that the computer circuity on your G310 requires a highly stabilized voltage to function correctly, and that requires a healthy battery to provide that stability. Something the alternator alone can not do.

Maybe, but why would that also kill the instrument display, the lighting, and even my Zumo 660 wired to the battery?

 

[gregfeeler]

Maybe, but why would that also kill the instrument display, the lighting, and even my Zumo 660 wired to the battery?

Beats me. But, I would like to know in case a G310 every follows me home.