ATGATT: Which brands most likely comply and why?

[DSXMachina]

My eyeball poll shows a big variation in the percentage of riders who are ATGATT (all the gear, all the time) depending on which marque they ride. I see the least compliance, in fact it's more of a defiance, among those who ride the Milwaukee heavyweights. Yet in my State (NH) they are among the most frequently killed or injured in accidents. Of course that could be because they comprise the single largest segment of riders, but I'm betting the "loud pipes save lives" crowd's accident rate exceeds their statistical quota.
I'm ATGATT, I wasn't for 13,000 miles of my youth and my first cycle. Not even a helmet. I was lucky. Never so much as a scratch. I think people are smarter now, and with the 'net we're certainly exposed to more of the dangers inherent in the sport and should be able to relate to the possibility. But apparently not everyone does.
Which brings me to my point: H-D riders seem to wear the least gear, and in my observation, BMW riders wear the most. One very rarely sees a BMW rider with less than full gear, or at least a jacket, and helmet and 'sensible' footwear. Kids on the Japanese rockets usually have a helmet, but they're the ones in a tank top, shorts and sneakers. When you're young you're invincible, and the only reason your helmet is on your head is because the State requires it until age 21. Here in NH you're free to go helmetless after that. and many do
So what is it about the average BMW owner vs. the average H-D (and clones) owner which makes one group more safety concerned than the other?

 

[drneo66]

I think a lot of it is what you're exposed to and what group you hang out with. Like attracts like. Or, as my grandma said "If you hang out with dirty dogs, you're gonna get get fleas."

There's also a cognitive bias effect going on here too.

Here's a whole article on social identity within a motorcycle club from the International Journal of Motorcycle Studies: https://motorcyclestudies.org/volume-15-2019/an-autoethnographic-exploration-of-social-identity-and-leadership-within-a-motorcycle-club-todd-c-wiggen/

 

[craydds]

insurance statistix

It might be possible to find info here: https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/... Fatal Crashes By Vehicle Type, 2010 And 2019 .

 

[DSXMachina]

It might be possible to find info here: https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/... Fatal Crashes By Vehicle Type, 2010 And 2019 .

These stats apply to the motorcycle population as a whole. I suggest that there are groups within that population which act differently than the majority, specifically BMW riders and their gear vs. H-D riders and their gear. I wondered if my observation was generally accepted, and if so, why each group gears up as it does?

 

[BC1100S]

so what is it about the average bmw owner vs. The average h-d (and clones) owner which makes one group more safety concerned than the other?

Simple answer...IQ.

 

[pglaves]

I wondered if my observation was generally accepted, and if so, why each group gears up as it does?

I would say that your observation is intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer.

 

[akbeemer]

My eyeball poll shows a big variation in the percentage of riders who are ATGATT (all the gear, all the time) depending on which marque they ride. I see the least compliance, in fact it's more of a defiance, among those who ride the Milwaukee heavyweights. Yet in my State (NH) they are among the most frequently killed or injured in accidents. Of course that could be because they comprise the single largest segment of riders, but I'm betting the "loud pipes save lives" crowd's accident rate exceeds their statistical quota.
I'm ATGATT, I wasn't for 13,000 miles of my youth and my first cycle. Not even a helmet. I was lucky. Never so much as a scratch. I think people are smarter now, and with the 'net we're certainly exposed to more of the dangers inherent in the sport and should be able to relate to the possibility. But apparently not everyone does.
Which brings me to my point: H-D riders seem to wear the least gear, and in my observation, BMW riders wear the most. One very rarely sees a BMW rider with less than full gear, or at least a jacket, and helmet and 'sensible' footwear. Kids on the Japanese rockets usually have a helmet, but they're the ones in a tank top, shorts and sneakers. When you're young you're invincible, and the only reason your helmet is on your head is because the State requires it until age 21. Here in NH you're free to go helmetless after that. and many do
So what is it about the average BMW owner vs. the average H-D (and clones) owner which makes one group more safety concerned than the other?

There is virtually zero empirical evidence to support that position.

 

[PoorUB]

Simple answer...IQ.

Joking, I assume.

I rode Harleys for years. Rode with doctors, lawyers and other professional people. Pretty sure IQ is irrelevant to wearing safety gear or not. Like the OP said, "defiance" is probably the best answer.

 

[oldcamper]

First, thanks for the links. They are useful!

Personally, i don’t think the brand has much to do with it, it’s more activity related.
Bar hoppers don’t usually wear helmets, but dirt bike riders do.

Age and experience may also be a factor. Old guys that been riding a while and have crashed a couple of times come to realize they are not so indestructible anymore. Time to gear up.

Finally, peer pressure is probably also at play. Most blend in with the group they hang with.

I’ve seen helmetless BMW riders at bars and atgatt Harley riders on the road.

 

[bluehole]

While I agree with the OP's premise, I will say that a couple of local HD riders I see fairly regularly on local roads have begun wearing gear...even high visibility vests.

 

[akbeemer]

Joking, I assume.

I rode Harleys for years. Rode with doctors, lawyers and other professional people. Pretty sure IQ is irrelevant to wearing safety gear or not. Like the OP said, "defiance" is probably the best answer.

Or perhaps a culture develops that drives what riders wear. We just got back from a nine day ride around Montana, Wyoming and a bit in Idaho. As our ride coincided with the end of Sturgis we encountered many HD riders on the road and camped in the midst of many. At their core they are not unlike riders of other brands but their culture prescribes a uniform and most adhere to the uniform expected. BMW riders have a culture as well. There was a fellow around our parts that had an RT and a Harley dresser. When he rode with the BMW crowd he was ATGATT, when with the HD crew he was a pirate.

I do envy the pirates in a way. They can walk up to their bike wearing jeans and a t-shirt, throw a leg over (easy on their bikes), adjust their shades and off they go. We wear some sort of $500 riding pants, put on a $500 jacket, a $400 air vest, ear plugs and a $700 helmet with a $250 radio, climb aboard, hook-up the vest, turn on the PackTalks, put on gloves and finally take off. It’s exhausting.

PS. One of the guys on a HD that we camped next to recently sold his ranch. Not sure what he got for it but it is 7,000+ acres and was listed for $19.5 million. People are getting 30-50% over asking price these days.

 

[brownie0486]

Joking, I assume.

I rode Harleys for years. Rode with doctors, lawyers and other professional people. Pretty sure IQ is irrelevant to wearing safety gear or not. Like the OP said, "defiance" is probably the best answer.

Ones IQ is directionally proportional to common sense, the higher the IQ, the less common sense they have [ as a general rule ].

 

[adamchandler]

I know the original poster is trying to find some scientific evidence between brand / style of riding to wearing full gear but I haven't seen any published data that really breaks this down. BMW Touring Riders are probably the most covered of the lot but I also feel as the ATGATT cult has rubbed people the wrong way when I'm at BMW-Centric events. At the end of the day, these are licensed motorcycle riders who can or cannot choose to comply with the law when privately operating their private property. What I mean is is someone wants to do the bare minimum and just put on a helmet, that's their prerogative. There are ATGATT riders who choose to smoke cigarettes or not follow doctor's orders on sodium intake and there are a LOT of ATGATT BMW Touring riders with radar detectors because they want to go 10-15 over the speed limit and not get a ticket.

Speed kills just as much as opting for work boots over riding boots. Ultimately, motorcycling is dangerous and each individual needs to assess their risk comfort when throwing a leg over.

I wear my full gear over 99% of my miles. I don't wear it the last day of riding of the year when I'm riding my bike across the street to top it off with ethanol free gas. I don't wear my knee-high boots and just do work boots when I'm running over to my friend's house to pick up a tool I need for a project that's a mile away. These are individual risk decisions I take.

I'm a new rider (2016) and the amount of people Wes Fleming interviews on his podcasts that started riding at a young age all admit they didn't wear any protective gear or very little when they were younger. Most of them wear full gear now as do most of us.

I guess maybe my larger point here is I'd like to see BMW owners represent our culture well by donning full gear and leading by example but not harass or disparage anyone who doesn't. My wife and I were at a rally last week. She was holding her bike on the back of our trailer while I unloaded mine. A couple were spotting us to make sure it all went well. When she jumped onto the ground the woman said "I hope you don't wear those flip flops when you're riding"

It was a kind and caring thing to say from the stranger helping us out and looking for my wife's (who is 30 years old) safety but it's really none of her business what kind of shoes my wife chooses to wear while riding. She has never ridden her motorcycle without full ATGATT head to toe..nothing cheap all top-tier stuff and is now being scolded for standing next to her bike at a rally in flip flops. That kind of stuff turns off riders who are just starting out when many of today's BMW riders started off as kids riding around without any gear at all.

If my wife and I decide to go to a rally and just wear helmets and jeans, well. I'm afraid to do that because I'll have to spend all day being lectured about my IQ level. I choose to wear gear because it's the right thing to do but I do feel some days if I choose not too, I'll be ran out of our community. I'd really like us all to agree that we ride and take our own risks...others do the same.

 

[pglaves]

I seldom tell another rider what they should wear but I do reserve the right to laugh at them.

 

[Omega Man]

I know the original poster is trying to find some scientific evidence between brand / style of riding to wearing full gear but I haven't seen any published data that really breaks this down. BMW Touring Riders are probably the most covered of the lot but I also feel as the ATGATT cult has rubbed people the wrong way when I'm at BMW-Centric events. At the end of the day, these are licensed motorcycle riders who can or cannot choose to comply with the law when privately operating their private property. What I mean is is someone wants to do the bare minimum and just put on a helmet, that's their prerogative. There are ATGATT riders who choose to smoke cigarettes or not follow doctor's orders on sodium intake and there are a LOT of ATGATT BMW Touring riders with radar detectors because they want to go 10-15 over the speed limit and not get a ticket.

Speed kills just as much as opting for work boots over riding boots. Ultimately, motorcycling is dangerous and each individual needs to assess their risk comfort when throwing a leg over.

I wear my full gear over 99% of my miles. I don't wear it the last day of riding of the year when I'm riding my bike across the street to top it off with ethanol free gas. I don't wear my knee-high boots and just do work boots when I'm running over to my friend's house to pick up a tool I need for a project that's a mile away. These are individual risk decisions I take.

I'm a new rider (2016) and the amount of people Wes Fleming interviews on his podcasts that started riding at a young age all admit they didn't wear any protective gear or very little when they were younger. Most of them wear full gear now as do most of us.

I guess maybe my larger point here is I'd like to see BMW owners represent our culture well by donning full gear and leading by example but not harass or disparage anyone who doesn't. My wife and I were at a rally last week. She was holding her bike on the back of our trailer while I unloaded mine. A couple were spotting us to make sure it all went well. When she jumped onto the ground the woman said "I hope you don't wear those flip flops when you're riding"

It was a kind and caring thing to say from the stranger helping us out and looking for my wife's (who is 30 years old) safety but it's really none of her business what kind of shoes my wife chooses to wear while riding. She has never ridden her motorcycle without full ATGATT head to toe..nothing cheap all top-tier stuff and is now being scolded for standing next to her bike at a rally in flip flops. That kind of stuff turns off riders who are just starting out when many of today's BMW riders started off as kids riding around without any gear at all.

If my wife and I decide to go to a rally and just wear helmets and jeans, well. I'm afraid to do that because I'll have to spend all day being lectured about my IQ level. I choose to wear gear because it's the right thing to do but I do feel some days if I choose not too, I'll be ran out of our community. I'd really like us all to agree that we ride and take our own risks...others do the same.

Perfect
Adam has eloquently described a situation that is not just confined to BMW riders. Currently, many of the old guard HAM (Amateur) radio operators are “shunning” new operators because licensing requirements have changed. They could easily help new operators get going in the hobby……or just shut up……but no, keep kicking the new generation of operators until “age out” renders the hobby obsolete.
OM

 

[EUGENE]

We do get more safer gear as we get older. At least in my case. I do shake my head at the lack of things I see people not wearing.

 

[pglaves]

I started riding a two wheel motorized vehicle on a Sears (Allstate) moped build by Puch in Austria. My riding gear consisted as nothing. Whatever clothes I had on were my riding gear. My sister's boyfriend at the time and later her husband cornered me and warned me that I was going to die. I didn't. Years later on a 160 mile road trip to Winnipeg I tried to freeze to death with the notion that a denim jacket was good riding gear.

So we learn.

 

[jr31]

If only someone could dictate what we wear…on a bike and everywhere. One less thing to think about.

Might be safer.

I find the broad Harley ethos somewhat unattractive. Noisy, slow bikes. Tassels. Vests. Often very clean freeway recliners. The self-identified rebels.

Equally unattractive are the BMW hens. Aerostich astronaut suits, over-engineered, clunky German helmets and Daytona boots. Slow boxers and Ewan McGregor fangirls. Adventure bikes minus adventure riders. The self-identified smart kids.

I bought a BMW despite the culture, not because of it. I needed a tall, fast inline four because the Japanese don’t really market fast bikes to 77” riders. I find Japanese sport bike culture to represent the broadest mix of squids, pros, and posers…and I prefer that to the synagogues of BMW and HD and their respective ATGATT and Shirtless sub-religions.

“Everybody in this room is wearing a uniform, so don't kid yourself.”
-Frank Zappa

 

[fmdualexhaust]

I miss out on some nice riding days because I'm not putting on leathers when it is in the 90s.

 

[crna59]

I miss out on some nice riding days because I'm not putting on leathers when it is in the 90s.

Then you're missing out on some great riding because there is protective gear that is made for hot weather!