Prof. Robert
New member
screwdriver
If you can't find a stethoscope, a large screwdriver works well.
Good Luck
If you can't find a stethoscope, a large screwdriver works well.
Good Luck
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waehrik
Guest
ohh that makes perfect sense, thanks! Did you have to split the cases in order to replace the tensioner rail?
I'll be tearing into things tonight and:
- doing a water torture treatment to remove carbon (can't hurt)
- picking up a mechanic's stethoscope and trying to isolate the source of the noise. I have a feeling the screwdriver won't block enough of the ambient noise since the exhaust is rather loud
- removing the plastics to see if those are vibrating
- removing the valve covers to check for broken cam chain guide rails
I have bids out on ebay for the airbox with tubes that 460Jetboat linked to (thanks!) and they both end in 13 hours so when I get those I'll give them a shot too.
The cam chains run from the crank up through the heads to the cams, which are located midway up the heads. The chains run in a passageway at the rear of the heads. The cam chain guides and rails are midway between the crank and the cams. Because the guides and rails within the cylinder heads, and below (i.e., towards the crankshaft from) the cams, you can neither see nor access the rails by removing the valve covers. Sorry.
I think a broken rail (they're plastic) is a good candidate for the noise you're hearing. I haven't done this repair, and don't know how it goes, save that the rails are not accessed through the valve covers.
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waehrik
Guest
The timing chain guide sounds likely, it makes sense that the chain would rap on overrun and acceleration since the speed of the cam doesn't match the crankshaft. I'm really really hoping that's not the issue but I'll report back tonight with more information and pictures if I can get a camera in there.
If it is the rails is there any harm in continuing to run the engine with a broken piece until I can fix it? I'm far too OCD just to leave it like this even if it's not going to cause any major damage (though since when does an impact between two materials not cause damage?) but I want to make sure that if I put another thousand miles on the bike before its fixed that it won't cause any premature wear or other issues. I use the bike to commute to work every day that it's not pouring, so that's about 30 miles a day.
If it is the rails is there any harm in continuing to run the engine with a broken piece until I can fix it? I'm far too OCD just to leave it like this even if it's not going to cause any major damage (though since when does an impact between two materials not cause damage?) but I want to make sure that if I put another thousand miles on the bike before its fixed that it won't cause any premature wear or other issues. I use the bike to commute to work every day that it's not pouring, so that's about 30 miles a day.
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waehrik
Guest
Alright, so it took me a bit longer to get to the check over of the bike but here's the update.
I removed the left side valve cover (where the noise seems to be coming from - it's definitely the left side) and inspected the cam chain guides. They're all intact and look good, so fortunately that's not the problem.
It seems like the noise is coming from the left valve cover area because if I crouch down over the tank (so the tank is blocking the cover) the noise goes away while I'm on the open road. If I'm driving next to a concrete barrier I can still hear the noise being reflected back to me.
I removed the bodywork and got a lot of looks driving around on the naked bike but it didn't help the noise any.
The airbox arrived from ebay and I installed the proper RS/RT intake tubes but unfortunately that didn't help either. It actually seemed to increase surging a little. The airbox also came with a K&N filter in very good condition, but I'm not sure if I should install that. In the northeast it's not very dusty or dirty so it should work well under these conditions.
I pulled the plugs and they look like it's actually running a hair rich. The insulators are a nice tan color, but a little darker tan than I'm used to seeing in a car.
So here's my next thought. I read on advrider that BMW updated their pushrod design and used to use a three piece rod with hardened ends and an aluminum shaft. The ends were pressed into the shaft but can come loose and rattle around. Apparently they won't come loose without being hot, so it looks like I'll have to remove the rods (might as well just replace them while I'm in there) and hit them with a heat gun to see if the ends fall off.
Here's the link on advrider for reference: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=507843
Has anyone else had that kind of experience?
I removed the left side valve cover (where the noise seems to be coming from - it's definitely the left side) and inspected the cam chain guides. They're all intact and look good, so fortunately that's not the problem.
It seems like the noise is coming from the left valve cover area because if I crouch down over the tank (so the tank is blocking the cover) the noise goes away while I'm on the open road. If I'm driving next to a concrete barrier I can still hear the noise being reflected back to me.
I removed the bodywork and got a lot of looks driving around on the naked bike but it didn't help the noise any.
The airbox arrived from ebay and I installed the proper RS/RT intake tubes but unfortunately that didn't help either. It actually seemed to increase surging a little. The airbox also came with a K&N filter in very good condition, but I'm not sure if I should install that. In the northeast it's not very dusty or dirty so it should work well under these conditions.
I pulled the plugs and they look like it's actually running a hair rich. The insulators are a nice tan color, but a little darker tan than I'm used to seeing in a car.
So here's my next thought. I read on advrider that BMW updated their pushrod design and used to use a three piece rod with hardened ends and an aluminum shaft. The ends were pressed into the shaft but can come loose and rattle around. Apparently they won't come loose without being hot, so it looks like I'll have to remove the rods (might as well just replace them while I'm in there) and hit them with a heat gun to see if the ends fall off.
Here's the link on advrider for reference: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=507843
Has anyone else had that kind of experience?
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waehrik
Guest
Solved
So I just wanted to report back about the solution to the rattling noise.
I put the exhaust back to stock, but first I removed the catalytic converter from it to eliminate the heat source from under the tranny. I know, I'm hurting the environment and all, but somehow I don't feel too bad considering no other bikes of that vintage came with cats.
Well, the noise completely went away. I guess with a mandrel bent midpipe and an open can didn't muffle any sounds at all, things that the stock resonator beneath the engine normally eliminates. It seems like the tickings sounds are always there, we just can't hear them usually. That'll teach me to make my own exhaust system to scratch - I don't know better than the BMW engineers. The whole reason I did that was to get rid of the cat - I should have just cut it out from the beginning and welded it back together.
So I'm now running with the stock exhaust, minus cat, with the CCP removed, no O2 sensor (a plug in its place) and GS intake tubes. The bike makes great power and has absolutely no surging (of course after a careful TB sync and valve adjustment).
So I just wanted to report back about the solution to the rattling noise.
I put the exhaust back to stock, but first I removed the catalytic converter from it to eliminate the heat source from under the tranny. I know, I'm hurting the environment and all, but somehow I don't feel too bad considering no other bikes of that vintage came with cats.
Well, the noise completely went away. I guess with a mandrel bent midpipe and an open can didn't muffle any sounds at all, things that the stock resonator beneath the engine normally eliminates. It seems like the tickings sounds are always there, we just can't hear them usually. That'll teach me to make my own exhaust system to scratch - I don't know better than the BMW engineers. The whole reason I did that was to get rid of the cat - I should have just cut it out from the beginning and welded it back together.
So I'm now running with the stock exhaust, minus cat, with the CCP removed, no O2 sensor (a plug in its place) and GS intake tubes. The bike makes great power and has absolutely no surging (of course after a careful TB sync and valve adjustment).
wzellwzell@yahoo.com
New member
If it were me, I would try ear plugs. They can eliminate most rattles.
Just thought I would lighten things up. I hope I did not offend anyone with my warped sense of humor.
Just thought I would lighten things up. I hope I did not offend anyone with my warped sense of humor.
pglaves
#13338
Now that you have divulged the source of the sound it is easy. 
A small exhaust leak at a joint always makes an obnoxious ticking sound on each power pulse. They can actually sound metallic even though they aren't.
I just changed the rear tire on Voni's F800 which requires loosening the muffler and pivoting it on a ball-joint shaped connection. You guessed it. Ticking. Back to the exhaust today.
A small exhaust leak at a joint always makes an obnoxious ticking sound on each power pulse. They can actually sound metallic even though they aren't.I just changed the rear tire on Voni's F800 which requires loosening the muffler and pivoting it on a ball-joint shaped connection. You guessed it. Ticking. Back to the exhaust today.
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waehrik
Guest
The weird thing was that there weren't any exhaust leaks along the system, though I did replace the exhaust gaskets when I swapped the stock exhaust back on, so there could have been a leak there. I used RTV and Easy Seal stainless exhaust clamps everywhere, so a leak was pretty unlikely anywhere else. Maybe the exhaust just liked resonating at that exact [very annoying] frequency.
J
jduke
Guest
I was thinking the buttons on the disc brakes could need replacing, but the clutch wouldn't have any effect on that.
Also, my R11RS ran smoother when I used Autolite 3923 spark plugs.
Good luck, I can't offer any suggestions, but I'm sure I'll learn following you as you fix it.
If you don't have any luck finding the RS intake tubes, let me know. I have a set setting somewhere on a shelf at home.
jerry.duke@gmail.com
Also, my R11RS ran smoother when I used Autolite 3923 spark plugs.
Good luck, I can't offer any suggestions, but I'm sure I'll learn following you as you fix it.
If you don't have any luck finding the RS intake tubes, let me know. I have a set setting somewhere on a shelf at home.
jerry.duke@gmail.com
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waehrik
Guest
I'm running the Autolite 3923XP (Iridium) plugs and it did wonders for smooth running and surging.
Thanks for the offer on the RS/RT tubes, I bought a set on ebay complete with a new airbox. It ran better with the RS/RT tubes when I had my modified exhaust on, but when I put the stocker back, the GS tubes were better. If anyone needs an airbox or RS/RT stock tubes just let me know too.
