2004 r1150rt clutch rattle

[DAVIS2X1]

On the road 1,000 miles from home. Riding around town I noticed a clacking sound when stopped. Put the bike on center stand started it up in neutral and it was quite. Operated the clutch a few times and the clatter was intermittent. Clutch disengaged quite, clutch engaged sometimes quite other times clacking. In gear noise, rattle and vibration while wheel turning. All gears affected.

Clutch ? Gearbox?? Try for home or nearest dealer??

Thanks for any help.

 

[gsaddict]

Possibly the clutch splines or trans input shaft bearing.
Any difficulty downshifting 3-2?
If you are close to a dealer, get a mech to listen/road test.

 

[rxcrider]

To clarify - Clutch engaged means lever released and disengaged means lever squeezed, correct?

Assuming that to be the case:

"I noticed a clacking sound when stopped."
- Were you in gear with the clutch disengaged (lever squeezed) or in neutal? If neutral, clutch engaged or disengaged?

"Put the bike on center stand started it up in neutral and it was quite. Operated the clutch a few times and the clatter was intermittent. Clutch disengaged quite, clutch engaged sometimes quite other times clacking."
- So in neutal with the lever squeezed (clutch disengaged) it was always quiet, but with the lever released (clutch engaged) it was rattling some of the time, but not always. This could be due to dry / worn splines on the clutch hub / gearbox input shaft. Input shaft bearing(s) is another possibility, but I think less frequently a failure based on gut feel of topic post frequency.

"In gear noise, rattle and vibration while wheel turning. All gears affected."
If this is on the center stand with no load on the rear wheel, it is pretty normal due to the acceleration and deceleration of the wheel and drive train components with each power pulse from the motor. You get sort of a whipping action where the wheel is sped up and then its inertia back drives the entire drive train as the engine slows prior to the next power plulse. You end up getting a series of alternating impacts as the lash in the entire drive train gets wound out in alternating directions.

I'd probably pull the starter and have a look at the freeplay between the clutch disk and the input shaft. If that looked fine, Draining the gear oil would probably my next move.

Questions:
How many miles are on the bike?
When was the last time the input splines were lubed, if ever?
When was the last gearbox oil change done and how did the old oil look / smell?
Where are you currently and where is home? You could always get lucky and find that someone on the forum is near you and able to take a quick look.

Related Links:
http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?55462-spline-lube-job-reveals-damaged-splines - my bike and it got noticeably quieter in neutral with the clutch engaged after replacing the clutch hub and lubing the splines.

 

[DAVIS2X1]

rxcrider

clutch engaged = lever released
Rattle when stopped must have when bike was in neutral with clutch engaged as when clutch disengaged never any noise.
Bike has 54,000 miles. Never lubed splines. Changed trans fluid 3,000 miles ago, clean synthetic oil came out.
I am in Hanover NH and was planning on returning home to St Louis MO. About 1,100 miles.

I am going to take a short ride sans helmet to see what I can hear. I'll then check the condition of the trans fluid.

I have restored many airheads and rebuilt transmissions and did not think spline lube was an issue with oilheads.

Max BMW estimated $900 to pull trans. I can ship bike home for about $625

Thanks for your help. I'll let you know.

 

[ragtoplvr]

Mine has been rattling for nearly 50K Smiles now. It is probably normal. In the summer when the oil is hot and thin it is worse. But it shifts SOOOOO much better using 80W90 conventional GL5. You can find someone to listen, but I bet it is normal.

Take some rocks in a can and shake them. Normal oilhead sounds.

Rod

 

[DAVIS2X1]

Checked the trans fluid, clean as the day it when in and no metal shavings from bearings.

When I test drove the bike I did hear a louder than normal wine and but the bike shifted smoothly.

My guess would be the splines. I think I might try to make it home.

Thanks for your help.

 

[blacque jacque shellacque]

I can't help but wonder if its one of the timing chains rattling around? Pulling in the clutch changes the load on the engine slightly. Perhaps smoothing the idle a bit?

 

[rxcrider]

I'm guessing you will probably be fine for the ride home if you are just starting to hear the noise and it is a rattle between the splines. Pulling the starter would give you a better view of the situation, but might not be something you feel like dealing with on the road. If you are taking the Northern (stateside) route and come near Cleveland, I'm on the far west side of the city. If you have any issues in route, let us know. I have a trailer and tie downs at the ready.

 

[DAVIS2X1]

rxcrider

I can pull the starter if I can use the tool kit for the bike, but do not know what to look for. Can you give me an idea?? I appreciate your offer. I was planning using BMW anonymous and the airhead list if I got into trouble.

Thanks again.

 

[rxcrider]

Not sure about pulling the starter with the factory tool kit - maybe

What you are looking for is rotational free play / backlash between the clutch friction plate splines and transmission input splines.

Put the transmission in gear, the higher the better.

Squeeze the clutch lever and strap it to the grip to hold the clutch disengaged.

Use a small screwdriver or a pick to grab the outer edge of the clutch disk and move it. Use a flashlight to look at the transmission input shaft. You will be able to see the hub for the clutch disk on it. See how far you can rotate the disk in each direction without turning the input shaft. Make a pencil mark at one end of the free play between the outer edge of the clutch disk and clutch cover. Rotate the disk to the opposite end of free play and measure the distance between the marks. Happy Wanderer had a video of this, but I can't find it.

The following is based on my bike and conversations in threads on this site - purely anecdotal mixed with my gut feelings:

Less than 0.100" rotation at the outer edge of the clutch disk and i'd be surprised if it were the source of the issue. a spline lube might still be a good idea, but probably isn't life threatening yet.

Around 0.200" and it is likely the issue and there is a good chance that you can ride it home. Also a chance you might not have to change the input shaft when you fix it.

More than 0.300" and I wouldn't trust it for the ride home. Probably mandates a new input shaft along with clutch components.

 

[DAVIS2X1]

RXCRIDER AND ALL

Made it home "OK". Pulled the starter and am trying to verfy the clutch spline play.

Thanks again for all the good advice.

 

[rxcrider]

I found Happy Wanderer's more recent post with good video links:
http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showpost.php?p=932078