My Dangerous Driveway - bright idea?

OK, I've lived in the same place for over 40 years and the roads near my place haven't changed, except to go from gravel to asphalt. Never had a crash exiting my driveway either, though the potential is always there. Let me explain.

At the bottom of the driveway there is a good view to the left - maybe half a mile. The view to the right is maybe 200 feet, and just past that view is a road with a stop sign entering the through road which curves around my property. Drivers making a right turn at the stop sign uniformly treat it as a "yield" sign, and rightly so, because they have a good view to the left for approaching cars. Drivers on the through road of course mostly ignore the 50 kph warning sign. (No "invisible driveway" sign, and I'm not complaining to the township, because these are universally ignored.)

So making a right turn out of my driveway is completely safe, or close to it. Making a left turn (when there is no traffic from the left) has so far meant LISTENING for traffic to the right. (One of the very few times I appreciate loud Harleys and sport bikes.)

The bright idea - when the road is clear to my left and I want to turn left - accelerate the car or bike in the WRONG lane; check the right mirror and shoulder check, THEN move over.

No, I'm not sure why this did not occur to me about 35 years ago. It does disturb me that I made myself a sitting duck literally thousands of times. Surprised I, my wife, and guests have gotten away with it all these years. A better plan is, I think, better than hoping you will continue to be lucky. The road is not going to change. Our luck could.

Sometimes my husband and I have to do this when turning left from the road we live on onto the main road. In the morning, the sun can be just in the wrong spot to your right, and you have no idea if there is traffic coming from the right, so we turn into the oncoming lane (so long as it's clear) til we are sure the right lane is clear, then move over.

Any chance of installing one of those round mirrors to look up the road?

WalterK75 said:

Any chance of installing one of those round mirrors to look up the road?

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Excellent idea!

http://www.amazon.com/Circular-Acrylic-Outdoor-Convex-Security/dp/B005C6BSZS

WalterK75 said:

Any chance of installing one of those round mirrors to look up the road?

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Thanks for the idea, and also Greenwald for the link. Several years ago when we spent a month in New Zealand, which has a lot of VERY curvy low speed roads, saw a number of these mirrors - obviously erected by the highway department. Hadn't even considered them until you guys replied. The downside for my situation is not just the cost but also erecting it on a neighbor's property.

Any downside to what I finally figured out?

If you were my neighbor, and asked if you could install a safety mirror on my property...I'd help you dig the post hole!

These mirrors are pretty common around my neck of the woods.

Good luck!

They're fairly common around here too. I don't "Know", but maybe the installation (and property easement if necessary?) is handled by the local Streets Department? Why pay for it (you pay taxes), and it makes the hazardous area "known" to the city.

BCKRider said:

Any downside to what I finally figured out?

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None that I can see from what you describe. I use this technique allmost every time at an intersection just west of my house. 3/4 mile visibility to the left probably 300 feet to the right due to a hill.

BCKRider said:

Thanks for the idea, and also Greenwald for the link. Several years ago when we spent a month in New Zealand, which has a lot of VERY curvy low speed roads, saw a number of these mirrors - obviously erected by the highway department. Hadn't even considered them until you guys replied. The downside for my situation is not just the cost but also erecting it on a neighbor's property.

Any downside to what I finally figured out?

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I have the exact same situation you do (gravel road and all). Your idea is fantastic! I can't imagine any downside.

Complain to local road authority, whoever owns the road? Tell them there is a sight distance problem and ask for a "Blind Driveway" sign.

Harry

AKsuited said:

Complain to local road authority, whoever owns the road? Tell them there is a sight distance problem and ask for a "Blind Driveway" sign.

Harry

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Harry, the road past my place has one "Blind Driveway" sign as well a couple "slow to 30 kph." All locals ignore them unless the road is a sheet of ice. Expect they rarely change the speed of anybody. I think it is MY JOB to exit my driveway safely, and too many signs can be as bad as no signs.

Several years ago (after a Harley rider skidded 150 feet uphill and across the road so his bike jumped the ditch and ended up on my property,) I successfully got the township to install a "Stop Ahead" sign as that stop sign was not visible until about where the skid mark began. Yes, high speed and bad braking caused the crash, but have little doubt that "Stop Ahead" sign has prevented other crashes.

Another pet peeve of mine is "slow to ..." signs which are often ridiculously slow, and then, on the same road, they are absolutely serious. There have been many motorcycle crashes on Hwy 6 not far from where I live and I bet more than a few of them have been from people who doubled the "suggested" limit safely and then ran off the road when the sign was serious.

Well, I seem to moved my OP well off track. But that often leads to an interesting conversation.

BCKRider said:

The bright idea - when the road is clear to my left and I want to turn left - accelerate the car or bike in the WRONG lane; check the right mirror and shoulder check, THEN move over.

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I think that is the safe idea. My own luck, however, would be that the car coming from the right that came into view as I was in the left lane would be a fine officer of the law, intent on citing me for riding on the wrong side of the road. He/she might or might not believe that was the safe thing to do. I'd much rather take my changes with the judge than the bumper of a car, so agree with your idea. And then I'd hope that either the officer or the judge didn't decide the proper thing to do was to turn right, make a U turn or turn in a parking lot so as to go back the other way.

Talk with your neighbor and the governmental authority responsible for the road about the mirrror idea.

Explain what you have in mind with a mirror and why you are concerned to your neighbor. Start getting them on board with the idea.

Talk with the agency - to place the pole and mirror properly from a road maintenance/safety perspective. They have been wiling to place blind driveway signs. Explain why you don't think that is the solution in your case and the mirror is a better one then ask if they would meet you half way and put the post in and you will pop for the mirror.

In the short run your OP solution makes sense but not as a long term way to exit and ride safely.

PGlaves said:

I think that is the safe idea. My own luck, however, would be that the car coming from the right that came into view as I was in the left lane would be a fine officer of the law, intent on citing me for riding on the wrong side of the road. He/she might or might not believe that was the safe thing to do. I'd much rather take my changes with the judge than the bumper of a car, so agree with your idea. And then I'd hope that either the officer or the judge didn't decide the proper thing to do was to turn right, make a U turn or turn in a parking lot so as to go back the other way.

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Here on Cape Cod during tourist season, the saying is that "You have to go right to go left".

AKsuited said:

Complain to local road authority, whoever owns the road? Tell them there is a sight distance problem and ask for a "Blind Driveway" sign.

Harry

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I had a similar problem with my driveway. The town said they would not put up a blind driveway sign because then they would be admitting that they issued a driveway permit in an unsafe location opening them up to liability issues, but I could put up a sign myself. The state, it is on a state road, would not do anything saying that I should talk to the town.
We moved.

Really appreciate all your thoughtful ideas. Today, when I took the car out of the driveway with a left turn, had another bright idea. After making sure there was no traffic from the left (the direction with good visibility,) I stopped the car halfway across that lane and had a good look to the right. I could see not only any car approaching the stop sign but also a fair ways back up the through road. With fairly brisk acceleration I felt confident in moving to the right side of the road immediately. Will do the same on the bike.

Yes, I feel stupid for not thinking of this a few decades ago. Clearly, there are situations where using the left lane to build speed IS a good idea. (Like Paul G., I value my safety much more than I fear a possible encounter with an over zealous LEO.) There are probably places where the road side mirrors would be a good idea. And I am sure there are places where no left turn is safe and you better go right and then turn around.

Glad I broached the subject, found the best answer to my regular problem - with your help, and hope that responders and readers now have an awareness of not only the danger but alternative ways to deal with it. Banking your life on good luck - which I did successfully for four decades - is not a sound plan.

The other lesson in this thread is to remember that these types of situations happen all over the place along hilly or curvy roads. And remember that you on your bike could be the vehicle coming along at highway speed when the driver who can't see you dawdles out in front of you. Stay alert and watch your sight distance/speed equation.

PGlaves said:

The other lesson in this thread is to remember that these types of situations happen all over the place along hilly or curvy roads. And remember that you on your bike could be the vehicle coming along at highway speed when the driver who can't see you dawdles out in front of you. Stay alert and watch your sight distance/speed equation.

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Excellent point, Paul. Our roads are full of curve signs with "suggested" speeds (helpful when you are familiar with the road, guess work how serious they are when you don't.) What I have never seen is a sign for a hill with a "slow to ..." suggested speed. Coming over a rise in the pavement can reduce your sight distance as much as a blind tight curve. I think hills are more insidious than curves because it is impossible to gauge how steep the drop over the hill is - and consequently, how close some possible obstacle could be. I almost learned that the hard way a few years ago, only a couple km from home and on this road I thought I knew so well. Came over this small rise on the bike, and here was a car coming my way and halfway across my lane. The guy was making a left turn but moved over before the intersection. I went from middle lane position to close to the right shoulder in a couple heart beats. (Yes, counter-steering without a thought.)

For hills on back roads, I slow down a bit, move to the center of the road, and have a couple fingers over the brake lever. Standing up would probably be a good idea too, though haven't done that yet.

I think adjusting speed to sight distance is one of the many reasons people who have ridden high miles are still alive and riding. Try to take luck out of the equation as much as possible.