How to improve the MOA forum.

espressoforyou · Jun 17, 2013

I just put the poll up. You can be the second person to vote if you hurry.

EvryDayRide said:
I have been following this thread from the beginning and watched it go from, How to improve the MOA forum, to starting a Advocate position in the MOA. If a member was just browsing the Forum, you could easily miss the direction this thread has gone from the thread title?

I have done business with two BMW dealerships. One went out of business. No corporate support while they were struggling. The other one has also had their issues with corporate support through the years. I do not get BMW NA's lack of support to the people selling and fixing their product? This is the point of contact for us, the consumer.

I figure if I have issues with my BMW I am on my own. I never joined the MOA organization thinking it would help me deal with BMW NA if I have problems. However, I would support an Advocate position if they could crack BMW NA to look at some of the common problems that their motorcycles have? It is worth a try? The worse thing that could happen is nothing. Then we will be right back where we are. Put up the Poll. I vote yes!!!

John

I agree, if the strong advocate idea does not work, then big deal, we at least tested the water. I think it is a little silly for 40,000 members to not have a strong voice contacting BMW NA about possible problems and other concerns.

espressoforyou · Jun 17, 2013

I just put up a simple yes or no poll concerning the need for a strong advocate.

We can find out in a few weeks if there is any interest in a strong proactive advocate within the MOA in dealing with BMW NA concerning possible or known defects with our bikes and other pressing issues at hand.

So go the the Forum and look under Motorrad and you will see the poll titled "Should the MOA have a proactive roll in presenting its members concerns to BMW NA?"

Let see what happens.

billy walker · Jun 17, 2013

EvryDayRide said:
.............

I have done business with two BMW dealerships. One went out of business. No corporate support while they were struggling. The other one has also had their issues with corporate support through the years. I do not get BMW NA's lack of support to the people selling and fixing their product? This is the point of contact for us, the consumer...........

There is zero corporate support as BMW dealerships are not corporate stores. The dealerships are privately owned by individuals. It is not NA's job to support these stores. Because BMW is such a niche market in a niche business I am of the opinion most BMW dealerships are run by motorcycle enthusiasts as opposed to motorcycle business people. This does not necessarily play out well for the consumer. Many of these stores if not most struggle to stay in business from year to year. The ROI can be exceptionally poor unless you have your act together.

Bud · Jun 17, 2013

espressoforyou said:
I would not mind paying an extra $3.00 per year to have paid advocate gather the data concerning possible defects by bike and year. Then compile the data in a spreadsheet where we can track patterns of repeated failures, repair history and success/failures in getting BMW NA to admit fault/pay for the repairs.

$3.00 x 40,000 members would raise $120,000. That should cover the cost of an advocate or advocates. Might have 2 part time advocates working on the project. One advocate might specialize in data collection, the other one could be the front man going to bat for the members.

Don't know how long you have been a member but every time the dues were increased there were howls of protest and people saying they wouldn't renew their membership because of the increase.

But who know? Maybe the BOD is in the mood to increase the cost of membership?

ponch1 · Jun 17, 2013

sibud said:
Don't know how long you have been a member but every time the dues were increased there were howls of protest and people saying they wouldn't renew their membership because of the increase.

But who know? Maybe the BOD is in the mood to increase the cost of membership?

They had no problem increasing the sweepstakes 10 fold. 3 or 4 bucks should be easy.

billy walker · Jun 17, 2013

sibud said:
Don't know how long you have been a member but every time the dues were increased there were howls of protest and people saying they wouldn't renew their membership because of the increase.

But who know? Maybe the BOD is in the mood to increase the cost of membership?

The dues are very inexpensive unless you're on an exceptionally low no income diet. Personnaly I would be willing to pay substantially more for a strong advocacy program. With large corporations being who they are advocacy can be a valuable benefit for those needing it. You could always choose an advocacy option so to speak. Pay extra for the option and have the opportunity to be represented. Left over funding could be carried forward to the next year or allow others the opportunity to participate as the need arises thereby showing the benefit to have value to others. Instead of going out to dinner one night join the advocacy program. I could pass on a dinner in order to help others and possibly myself as well.

espressoforyou · Jun 17, 2013

I agree Billy. I would be glad to pay $20 more a year.

I would even be willing to have a "super fund" set up for dealing with specific problems, such as the final drive. I would gladly pay $50 to help jump start that effort if I was having problems with my final drive. I bet more members with that same problem would be willing to kick in to get help dealing with BMW NA.

But the poll up right now is NOT concerning if we should fund the advocate. Just if the members would like to have one.

roamingbeemer · Jun 17, 2013

Like the majority of members I do not live on the MOA forum. I am surprised this has taken on the auspice of an oil thread. I support the foundation vigorously but I do not feel the MOA should expand beyond being a riders community. I appreciate the work of the volunteers in this organization and I think our current relationship with BMW is satisfactory. I am certain BMW will be statistically driven and those numbers will be the only thing that initiates change. Therefore if everyone is having a problem then complaining directly will be just as effective. Of course do not forget the European and Asian market will count into this.

In addition, volunteers need a passion for the work they are doing and that is why the foundation has people willing to work for free. Just my two cents.....

kantuckid · Jun 18, 2013

espressoforyou said:
I would not mind paying an extra $3.00 per year to have paid advocate gather the data concerning possible defects by bike and year. Then compile the data in a spreadsheet where we can track patterns of repeated failures, repair history and success/failures in getting BMW NA to admit fault/pay for the repairs.

$3.00 x 40,000 members would raise $120,000. That should cover the cost of an advocate or advocates. Might have 2 part time advocates working on the project. One advocate might specialize in data collection, the other one could be the front man going to bat for the members.

The numbers don't work for a club driven collection of data as most BMW riders do not belong to the club, thus the source of info is minimal. Nice thought but will not grasp the whole problem IMO. While I'm for a club ombudsman, I don't see them playing junior transportation department/hwy safety guru,etc.. As to higher dues, I'm on the edge now as to if I'd renew-my retirement checks are small & the ON doesn't "blow me away" either...

beemerdons · Jun 18, 2013

ponch1 said:
They had no problem increasing the sweepstakes 10 fold. 3 or 4 bucks should be easy.

Great call on that zinger ponch1, excellent observation my Brother!

ponch1 · Jun 18, 2013

beemerdons said:
Great call on that zinger ponch1, excellent observation my Brother!

And understand that I won the $1000 gift card the first year I joined and that was with the purchase of 4 tickets. If it was still $10, I would have bought at least a couple each year in the following years, but $100 is a lot for me.

mika · Jun 18, 2013

ponch1 said:
They had no problem increasing the sweepstakes 10 fold. 3 or 4 bucks should be easy.

Yes that is a good zinger but a false analogy. A sweepstakes ticket is a discretionary purchase for a member, new or old. A increase in membership costs, through any combination of increased dues or funds charged against the life membership funds, to pay for a position is a levy on the membership. A very different thing.

Can anyone outline the position? What are the duties? How will they be performed? What are the qualifications this person should have? What are the performance expectations and evaluation standards for the position?

Earlier in this thread it was suggested it would only take a few hours per week for a volunteer. How did this escalate to a paid position of any sort?

Membership fees, I will readily agree, are low. Yet in my case the vast majority of those fees support functions that I gain little or no benefit or utility from. To date the members supporting those items have been able to make the case why their interests benefits, sustains and at times may make the MOA grow.

How does this support, maintain and grow the MOA?

The numbers thrown around as I post this range between a 7.5 and 50% increase in cost to me. I have no idea what value you are adding to the organization and in turn how to compare any cost increase to value I may or may not gain.

Again, can anyone outline the position? What are the duties? How will they be performed? What are the qualifications this person should have? What are the performance expectations and evaluation standards for the position?

ponch1 · Jun 18, 2013

mika said:
Yes that is a good zinger but a false analogy. A sweepstakes ticket is a discretionary purchase for a member, new or old. A increase in membership costs, through any combination of increased dues or funds charged against the life membership funds, to pay for a position is a levy on the membership. A very different thing.

Can anyone outline the position? What are the duties? How will they be performed? What are the qualifications this person should have? What are the performance expectations and evaluation standards for the position?

Earlier in this thread it was suggested it would only take a few hours per week for a volunteer. How did this escalate to a paid position of any sort?

Membership fees, I will readily agree, are low. Yet in my case the vast majority of those fees support functions that I gain little or no benefit or utility from. To date the members supporting those items have been able to make the case why their interests benefits, sustains and at times may make the MOA grow.

How does this support, maintain and grow the MOA?

The numbers thrown around as I post this range between a 7.5 and 50% increase in cost to me. I have no idea what value you are adding to the organization and in turn how to compare any cost increase to value I may or may not gain.

Again, can anyone outline the position? What are the duties? How will they be performed? What are the qualifications this person should have? What are the performance expectations and evaluation standards for the position?

Actually both are discretionary costs and yes, I knew the difference between the two before posting, but either way has it's consequences.

That said, I voted, it's done, but it doesn't look good for the pro-advocate crowd. My guess is that most members have older bikes that are out of warranty. In the end, it doesn't matter much anyway.

mika · Jun 18, 2013

ponch1 said:
Actually both are discretionary costs

True both are discretionary cost but the difference is important in another way.

In the sweepstakes I could calculate the probability of winning at any point in time if I knew the number of tickets sold. I also could calculate some sense of value the donation a ticket purchased represented to the Foundation.

No effort has been made to answer my questions by anyone in a way I, or any other member, that can make a calculation of what the cost value is to them. If your assessment of the poll is correct I suspect this explains the outcome as much as anything.

The unfortunate thing for "both sides" of the MOA membership is this seems to have caused some rifts and potential damage.

ponch1 · Jun 18, 2013

If people are afraid to have their feelings hurt, so be it. Zie Mir gezunt.

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mika · Jun 18, 2013

With all due respect a bit caviler given the audience, the groups history/stated purpose and the total lack of need for it for any side of the issue to make their points. To bad. Obviously YMMV

ponch1 · Jun 18, 2013

I've been in other groups and never have I seen such anal retentive afraid of change clique. Someone talks out of school and its time for line rectification. FWIW, I asked Greg to rescind my membership and he hasn't. Again, be well.

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espressoforyou · Jun 18, 2013

Billy, you are right, not much interest. Thanks for your well thought out posts.

billy walker said:
Randy, I'm seeing no interest in this matter as of this writing. Apparently you are?

Hopefully we will see more polls like the one Don posted concerning the fuel strip issue. There was a ton of interest in that poll and the members did get some useful information out of it. Thanks again to Don for posting that poll.

I have not seen many comments on the idea of posting direct contact information to BMW NA and to the regional service reps. Make this information public and the members can present our on casesto the decision makers.

Here is the contact information that I have. I hope others will post any useful contact information to BMW NA they might have.

Anthony Cavanaugh is TEAM Leader in charge of pre-litigation and vehicle buy-back. His email is Anthony.cavanaugh@bmwna.com His direct line is 201-263-8215
CEO Ludwig Willisch at ludwig.willisch@bmwna.com
Vice President Hans Blesse at Hans.Blesse@bmwna.com

Bud · Jun 18, 2013

ponch1 said:
I've been in other groups and never have I seen such anal retentive afraid of change clique. Someone talks out of school and its time for line rectification. FWIW, I asked Greg to rescind my membership and he hasn't. Again, be well.

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Ponch,

You are leaving over this bump in the road?

Differences of opinion are a part of any large organization. If you find one where everyone thinks alike, let me know. :wave

Sorry to see you go but I will still read your blog. Perhaps you will have some comments on it about this little family spat?

Ride well.

ponch1 · Jun 18, 2013

That's the point, disagreement is discouraged here. You guys would cry to mommie from some of the discussions at the vba.

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