R13RT problem...

[jakfrost]

Or perhaps it is just something we have to face with all newer bikes eventually. That being that the days of simply plugging into the electrical system to activate some new addition to the bike are over.

I bought the bike without the top case trim level, after confirmation by the dealer that the heated riders seat was available as a separate item, for $1200.00 (Can$), which I ordered. When it arrived some weeks later, then scheduled weeks later for installation, and after a full day of the tech trying to work with BMW Canada reps to figure a way to 'turn on' the seat...it was realized that it is impossible without new software for the TFT screen control module.

Failing BMW coming up with the required software, ( I don't see that happening anytime soon...), I checked into other possible providers of a heated seat and was excited to read about the new heated seat from Wunderlich, until I read the fine print where it says that the bike must be equipped with factory software for the BMW heated seat. Which if course is not there unless you purchased a factory optioned bike which included the heated seat.

So it would seem the only choice is to trade the bike for one with a heated seat installed from the factory.

Not doing that, already swallowed a big $$$ to trade my 4 month old K1300B for the RT because of the weight issue with the K bike, ( i.e. at 78 I'm shocked and sorry to realize I could not pick it up when laid on its side...). So back to the RT's, which I can pick up. First thing I did when I traded was carefully lay my brand new RT down (left side, no cheating..) on the front lawn, and...pick it back up.All good, for now anyway.
I guess I could find some kind of heating pad and just wire it directly to the battery but not a very elegant solution and not even sure how the Canbus system would react to that.

 

[strataj]

Not handy like a heated seat but since you may riding with a heated jacket why not add some nice warm heated pants?

 

[JCtx]

i.e. at 78, I'm shocked and sorry to realize I could not pick it up when laid on its side...

Hey, if that was the metric to own a bike, many of us, who are much younger than you, would be riding KTM 390s. Or even Vespas. Ha ha. Most of us in our 60s (almost 64 here), have some kind of current or previous medical condition that lifting such a heavy bike, could result in an injury/re-injury, and possibly not being able to lift it at all. Seriousy, I'm probably able to lift my bike (and without injury) if needed... BUT, it's not something I'm going to try. Ha ha. The better approach is not to drop it in the first place, which has been mine (I always tread very carefully), and so far, successful for a long time (hope it stays that way).
But yes, I want the lightest bike possible for my needs and wants now, not only in case I have to lift it, but also for the better handling. I also gave up on heavy K and RT bikes, and now ride a naked R HP, which is one of the lightest R bikes. And probably the lightest shaft-driven bike with all the creature comforts that I want. The good news about R bikes is, when they lay down, they're at a much better angle than a K bike, so easier to lift than if almost flat on the floor.
Anyway, welcome to the family, and best wishes for the new year. And glad you're still riding at 78. I plan to retire from riding probably around 70 (a guess), but I only ride for the twisties, and spiritedly, which I'll obviously have to give up sooner than if just tooling around (which I don't enjoy). Take care, and happy new year.

 

[jakfrost]

Thanks for the New Year wishes JCtx, back at ya!

Honestly the 2 times the K bike ended up on its side were the first, ( and the last I hope ) time I have ever dropped a bike in my 62 consecutive years of riding a motorcycle. Lucky? Yup. Both times were almost identical circumstances, slight uphill, intending a left turn, gravel road, stop sign, rider in front pulls out and stalls almost instantly. I used both brakes immediately and the bike simply laid down on its left side with me scrambling to stay out from under it. The second time wasn't a stalled rider, he just changed his mind for some reason. Same result.

The first time it happened I calmly placed the small of my back against the seat with my legs under me, grabbed the passenger grab rail and the left handlebar ( as we are taught to do..) and attempted to 'walk backwards pushing with my legs' to raise the bike until I could lower the side stand. Well got a huge shock when I was unable to even BUDGE the bike...not an inch off the gravel. Never moved it. Like it was in fast setting cement. I couldn't believe it. Luckily the other rider plus another pedestrian passing by and together we were able to raise the beast.

I am a solo rider by choice 90% of the time and had visions of myself standing beside my fallen bike trying to flag down somebody, anybody...who could stop and help lift the behemoth of a bike back to a horizontal position. On a busy highway with an unexpectedly soft shoulder, anywhere at night....etc, etc, would certainly put a damper on my trip. Loved the bike but if I can't pick it up...

 

[Wkoppa]

I am a solo rider by choice 90% of the time and had visions of myself standing beside my fallen bike trying to flag down somebody, anybody...who could stop and help lift the behemoth of a bike back to a horizontal position. On a busy highway with an unexpectedly soft shoulder, anywhere at night....etc, etc, would certainly put a damper on my trip. Loved the bike but if I can't pick it up...

Someone almost always stops. Great way to meet new friends. Take a paperback to read while you wait. I see these short people that pick the bikes up easily but they probably worked in the circus when they were younger

Wayne Koppa
Grayling, MI
#71,449

 

[oldcamper]

Call me a Luddite but I find it difficult to understand how something as simple as a heated seat needs software to switch it on and off.

 

[motorhead1977]

Call me a Luddite but I find it difficult to understand how something as simple as a heated seat needs software to switch it on and off.

Because it's a BMW? Actually it's the CanBus system and all the computers. Had a somewhat similar experience with an Alfa Romeo. IT friend was able to access the system and changed the code (it was all Greek to me).

 

[omega man]

Call me a Luddite but I find it difficult to understand how something as simple as a heated seat needs software to switch it on and off.

I was kinda thinking that the heated gear/seat worked through “pulse width modulation”. It’s where the voltage is always the same and the length of time the voltage is applied is variable and needs more than a switch. Add that it seems that these controls can be controlled from a dashboard or in a BMW’s wonder wheel, it is more than an on/off switch.
OM

 

[oldcamper]

I was kinda thinking that the heated gear/seat worked through “pulse width modulation”. It’s where the voltage is always the same and the length of time the voltage is applied is variable and needs more than a switch. Add that it seems that these controls can be controlled from a dashboard or in a BMW’s wonder wheel, it is more than an on/off switch.
OM

Pulse width modulation is used by many heated gear temperature controllers for continuously variable power output to simple resistive loads. Gerbing and Warm & Safe use this method to control heat output. The heated seats I have seen so far have had simple off/on or off/low/high switch controls.

I create software for a living, and IMHO requiring different software images for common hardware variations is poor coding practice. A better method would be to test for a heated seat option on power up and if found, bring it into the menu system for control.

 

[54571]

I just read a post of Facebook about a recall on the saddlebags. According to the post the bags can fall off and they are going to add a strap to hold them on and possibly later this year they will be replaced

 

[jono]

Call me a Luddite but I find it difficult to understand how something as simple as a heated seat needs software to switch it on and off.

I would suspect that since BMW has a lot of models (many countries to support) and a lot of options and packages, it is logical to install firmware configured for the specific unit. That way you don't have any resident code for options that don't exist for that particular bike. While that's a standard practice, it's outrageous they don't allow the dealer (or owner) to change the configuration once it's left the factory. "Never necessarily attribute malice to what can be explained by simple incompetence."

 

[lee]

Add that it seems that these controls can be controlled from a dashboard or in a BMW’s wonder wheel, it is more than an on/off switch.

A big reason Debbie bought a Chevy Blazer this last year, the Blazer is one of the last Chevy models to have switches for things like climate control.
You have to go through menus on a screen for the other cars.
The other reason was the V6. She doesn't link wimpy engines

 

[motorhead1977]

You got that right @lee Our '23 GMC Canyon AT 4 doesn't have a headlight switch. While the lights are "automatic" that doesn't help with stuff like when entering construction zones and the like. You have to use the touch screen to turn lights on and off! Just plain stupid and dangerous since that means you must take your eyes off the road.

 

[JCtx]

I also bought a '25 Cayman (before they were discontinued) for that reason... and a manual one, at that. As 'old school' as it gets, with great 'analog' gauges (they're all electronic now, but still with physical needles), and everything is still controlled by proper buttons. And I didn't even order NAV, since the car has CarPlay, which is all I need. And the only 'driving aid' it has is blind-spot monitoring, which is the only one I actually welcome. It does have cruise (which I rarely use), but the regular one, not the adaptive kind. And no moon/sunroof either. Hope it turns reliable.

Both times were almost identical circumstances, slight uphill, intending a left turn, gravel road, stop sign, rider in front pulls out, and stalls almost instantly.

Yep, that sounds familiar. And you probably forgot to mention the road was slightly canted left (for water drainage), so when you put your foot down, it's initially met with air (or ground lower than you expect). Anyway, I avoid those situations like the plague, by slowing down until nobody is in front, or simply continuing straight, and just make a safer turn (or U-turn) somewhere ahead. I'm somewhat inseam challenged too, but always ride solo (like you), so just touching with the ball of my feet, is safe most of the time. But like I mentioned above, I always watch where I need to stop, since I'm more prone to drop the bike, than folks with a longer inseam. But I don't want a lower seat, since the 'comfort' stock seat on my R is really comfortable on long rides, plus any more bend on my knees, would probably result in pain, and the bike is perfect now. So I just manage those situations, and so far, no drops (crossing fingers it stays that way). Ha ha.
Finally, R bikes fall 'less' than a regular bike, due to the protruding pistons/heads, so it should be easier to lift our bikes, than a 'regular' one. However, if we dump it on gravel, it'd probably be impossible to have the footing needed to lift it by ourselves. So I hardly ever touch gravel. And I'm extremely careful when I do. Best wishes for the new year to everybody here.

 

[teech]

Or perhaps it is just something we have to face with all newer bikes eventually. That being that the days of simply plugging into the electrical system to activate some new addition to the bike are over.

I bought the bike without the top case trim level, after confirmation by the dealer that the heated riders seat was available as a separate item, for $1200.00 (Can$), which I ordered. When it arrived some weeks later, then scheduled weeks later for installation, and after a full day of the tech trying to work with BMW Canada reps to figure a way to 'turn on' the seat...it was realized that it is impossible without new software for the TFT screen control module.

Failing BMW coming up with the required software, ( I don't see that happening anytime soon...), I checked into other possible providers of a heated seat and was excited to read about the new heated seat from Wunderlich, until I read the fine print where it says that the bike must be equipped with factory software for the BMW heated seat. Which if course is not there unless you purchased a factory optioned bike which included the heated seat.

So it would seem the only choice is to trade the bike for one with a heated seat installed from the factory.

Not doing that, already swallowed a big $$$ to trade my 4 month old K1300B for the RT because of the weight issue with the K bike, ( i.e. at 78 I'm shocked and sorry to realize I could not pick it up when laid on its side...). So back to the RT's, which I can pick up. First thing I did when I traded was carefully lay my brand new RT down (left side, no cheating..) on the front lawn, and...pick it back up.All good, for now anyway.
I guess I could find some kind of heating pad and just wire it directly to the battery but not a very elegant solution and not even sure how the Canbus system would react to that.

Recently I posted under Roasting Chessnuts about control of a heated seat and indeed the control of the seat is in the TFT Module. Too make matters worse the control ie. % of heat for each setting cannot be adjusted like a GS 911 allows for the heated grips. The lowest setting on the heated seat can be used for frying bacon. I mean I love bacon but not when I am sitting on the grill cooking it. I am surprised that the tech found a place to plug in the wire for the seats it was my understanding that the harness was a factory specfic install.

 

[jimpape95831]

I would suspect that since BMW has a lot of models (many countries to support) and a lot of options and packages, it is logical to install firmware configured for the specific unit. That way you don't have any resident code for options that don't exist for that particular bike. While that's a standard practice, it's outrageous they don't allow the dealer (or owner) to change the configuration once it's left the factory. "Never necessarily attribute malice to what can be explained by simple incompetence."

Except that the resident code for all options in a given geographic area would be fairly small. It’s all compiled machine code, not windows bloat code.

 

[jono]

Except that the resident code for all options in a given geographic area would be fairly small. It’s all compiled machine code, not windows bloat code.

Size of the code isn't the issue - it's about the size of the testing matrix and code interaction that drives the decision (typically).

 

[jimpape95831]

I see… but would it not be more complicated to test multiple variants of the code (I.e. one for each variant of bike/option package)?