New Expert Opinion On Failure Of Abs Hydro Unit

[JAYROC]

To all my wonderful riders that I have met through this forum:
I own a 1998 R1100r. It and I were involved in an accident. Someone in a hurry to make a left turn turned right in front of me. Fortunately, I am ok but not my "baby". Here is the problem. The insurance company has approved repair/replacement of everything except the ABS Hydro Unit. Their position is that there is no proof that the accident caused the unit to fail. According to my service rep, this opinion is based on the fact that there was no damage to the tank and the unit is located beneath the tank. Mine you there were two pages of damage to other parts of the bike. My position is that I had a perfertly good and working bike including a working ABS system before the accident so how could it not have resulted from the accident? The dealership (Blue Moon Cycle) is neutral on the issue. They cannot not say that the accident caused the unit to fail nor can they say that it did not cause the failure. Can anyone give me an opinion or any experience in this area? I understand from a legal eagle that I have to prove that the accident caused the failure rather than the insurance company proving that it didn't. Apprarently, the fact that it was working before the accident is not sufficient in and of itself. Help, help, help. It has been too long since I have been on my "baby".

 

[JAYROC]

Need Expert Opinion on ABS Hydro Unit

Hey, I did not know how to edit the title. I meant to say "Need" and not "New"

 

[NOMADICBOB]

I would like to know the name of the insurance company so as to never do business with them.

 

[jingdog]

See if you can run a diagnostic on it. Possibly one of the sensors is bad. Or the gap is bad.
http://k11og.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2110

I would get BM to say WHY its not working. Havnt they done so already? For pitys sake there are parts to the ABS which are NOT under the tank and probably were dammaged in the crash.

 

[osbornk]

I was an insurance adjuster for 30+ years and you would be amazed at how often people tried to blame pre-existing mechanical problems were caused by the wreck (and prior dents, etc). I've had many people tell me things such as "I think it damaged the transmission" or "I think the brakes are damaged", etc. when the vehicle was towed from the scene and there was no reason to suspect a problem. If there was no apparent damage, I usually told them that he or she could have the vehicle torn down and the cause of malfunction would be determined and if it was shown that the accident caused it, I would pay for it and if it did not, he or she would have to pay for it. A few had them torn down and I paid for the damage when it was shown to be from the accident but most knew better and didn't want incur the cost for the repair they knew was not due to the accident.

Many people think it is not stealing if they steal from the government or an insurance company.

I heard many times "it wasn't there before the accident" when a dent was more rusted than the dents from the accident or "the AC worked before the accident" when it had a dent in the rear bumper.

If you're sure it's accident related, offer to have it repaired and you will pay if it is not accident related.

Insurance policies are different animals. On a vehicle, the perils covered are listed such as collision, etc. This wording makes it the responsibility of the vehicle owner to prove the damage was caused by a covered peril. On the other hand, most homeowners policies are all risk. Everything is covered that is not excluded. In that case, the burden of proof shifts to the insurance company where they have to prove that the damage was due to something that is excluded.

 

[PGlaves]

I was an insurance adjuster for 30+ years and you would be amazed at how often people tried to blame pre-existing mechanical problems were caused by the wreck (and prior dents, etc). I've had many people tell me things such as "I think it damaged the transmission" or "I think the brakes are damaged", etc. when the vehicle was towed from the scene and there was no reason to suspect a problem. If there was no apparent damage, I usually told them that he or she could have the vehicle torn down and the cause of malfunction would be determined and if it was shown that the accident caused it, I would pay for it and if it did not, he or she would have to pay for it. A few had them torn down and I paid for the damage when it was shown to be from the accident but most knew better and didn't want incur the cost for the repair they knew was not due to the accident.

Many people think it is not stealing if they steal from the government or an insurance company.

I heard many times "it wasn't there before the accident" when a dent was more rusted than the dents from the accident or "the AC worked before the accident" when it had a dent in the rear bumper.

If you're sure it's accident related, offer to have it repaired and you will pay if it is not accident related.

Insurance policies are different animals. On a vehicle, the perils covered are listed such as collision, etc. This wording makes it the responsibility of the vehicle owner to prove the damage was caused by a covered peril. On the other hand, most homeowners policies are all risk. Everything is covered that is not excluded. In that case, the burden of proof shifts to the insurance company where they have to prove that the damage was due to something that is excluded.

But you have absolutely no basis to assume that this owner in this case had anything other than a working ABS system that now fails to work as a result of this accident. No "rusty dents" have been identified in this case.

If the industry wishes to assume fraud until the insured proves otherwise as you assert, then they need to seriously rewrite the language in the insurance contracts I've read.

As an adjuster your job was to skin the insured and save the company as much money as you could. You probably got evaluated, rewarded, and promoted specifically on the basis of your ability to do just that.

 

[osbornk]

But you have absolutely no basis to assume that this owner in this case had anything other than a working ABS system that now fails to work as a result of this accident. No "rusty dents" have been identified in this case.

If the industry wishes to assume fraud until the insured proves otherwise as you assert, then they need to seriously rewrite the language in the insurance contracts I've read.

As an adjuster your job was to skin the insured and save the company as much money as you could. You probably got evaluated, rewarded, and promoted specifically on the basis of your ability to do just that.

I was not saying this owner's problem was not due to the accident, I was simply trying to explain why the insurance will not roll over and pay everything people claim was caused by an accident. We do not assume fraud, we simply have to have evidence that the damage is due to the accident. The state insurance commission reviews and grades claims paid by insurance companies and fines or otherwise punishes companies that pay claims improperly. The issue penalties for not paying claims properly. That includes both underpayments, overpayments and improper denials. If a claim is paid in full or in part and there is not evidence in the file to justify the payment, the insurance company is penalized.

My job as an adjuster was to pay what we owed. I had files downgraded for both overpaying claims and underpaying claims. There was no reward, promotion or bonus for denying or underpaying a claim that was owed. I would much rather pay a claim than deny one because it avoids arguments, complaints and bad feelings. I just needed documentation to support the payment before I could pay the claim.

There might be a worse job than an insurance adjuster but I don't know what it is. I don't know why I stayed with the job until I retired. Property owners, body shops, contractors and attorneys don't like you because you don't give them what they ask for. Your manager gets on you for overpaying claims. Many of your files are reviewed by your manager, auditors, supervisors, insurance commissions and others who all have a different opinion on what is proper. Then a hurricane or other natural disaster hits hundreds or thousands of miles from your home and you are sent there with no advance warning for a couple of months to work 7 days per week for 12 hours per day. It doesn't matter that you had plans (rallies, vacations, your kids activities, etc).

 

[jingdog]

Insurance fraud is a huge problem here in NJ as well as uninsured motorists. You have to listen to what the adjuster is saying and figger out a way to get your point across in a way he is going to understand.

 

[Rinty]

Need opinion

Jayroc:

Is the "insurance company" your own insurerer, or the other motorist's insurer? The wordings of the other motorist's may have a different result for you than those in your own policy.

Here are some other ideas, which your lawyer may have reviewed with you:

1.)Is there a way of proving that the ABS unit was working before the accident, i.e.:

a) did anyone else ride the bike just before the accident and who could attest that it was working?

b) did you have the bike in for service just before the accident, and there is no mention on the work order that the ABS is not working, nor a notation from the shop on a snag list.

2.) Is there a small claim procedure in your local courts or a small claims court, where you can inexpensively bring your claim? In that event, you could swear under oath that the ABS was working fine before the accident, and a judge can make his/her own conclusion on your truthfulness.

3) If there is a small claims court, are there small claims agents who can economically bring actions there for you

4) Is there an arbitration procedure available for the settling of insurance disputes in your state?

Also, there are specialized "bike attorneys" around; there may be one in your area. They love beating up on insurance companies.

Finally, if it was my bike, I would be inclined just to throw the whole claim into small claims court and let the chips fall where they may. Judges don't like insurance companies. But the cost of doing that may be prohibitive in your state.

I would also be looking for a new insurer, assuming the company that's declined the coverage is your own.

Rinty

 

[osbornk]

Insurance fraud is a huge problem here in NJ as well as uninsured motorists.

Many companies don't operate in NJ because of the fraud and some don't operate in Lousiana for the same reason. Fraud has a hugh impact on rates. In Virginia and away from the cities where fraud is more common, I pay $118 per year for full coverage with $250 deductible and high liability limits on my 03 CLC and $75 for the same coverage on my 86 R80RT.

 

[Rinty]

ABS unit

In Alberta the fraud situation got to the point that the Provincial government legislated a $4,000 cap for soft tissue whiplashes where there is no imageable proof of injury. They did this after the New Brunswick government was almost brought down, over escalating premiums.

The legislation is now wending it's way up to our top court.

And I wonder if the high volume of fraudulent claims has an impact on how some legitimate claims, such as Jay's, are adjusted, and forcing claimants to go through a stressful small claims procedure, or arbitration.

Rinty

 

[nrpetersen]

It is very possible that there was an electrical transient in your bike if any damage or shorts occurred to certain electrical parts. The sudden current pulses combined with other inductors in your system create voltages that can wipe out silicon-based electronics.

My daughter's car was in an accident where the damaged voltage regulator wasn't apparent for several weeks. It turned out the voltage regulator is incorporated into the car's main processor so it was damn expensive to fix - & on my nickel.

In summary, it depends on the nature of the failure, but electronics don't like voltage transients.

 

[osbornk]

And I wonder if the high volume of fraudulent claims has an impact on how some legitimate claims, such as Jay's, are adjusted, and forcing claimants to go through a stressful small claims procedure, or arbitration. Rinty

That is exactly the problem. Years ago, when the insurance company had a claim that "smelled", they could investigate it without fear of descrimination claims. However, with descrimination and unfair claims handling claims of the last several years, the insurance industry have to treat everyone the same and it has resulted in more investigation and documentation of all claims. Things that once were taken on the word of the policyholder now requires receipts and other documentation.

 

[Rinty]

need expert opinion

Jayroc:

How did you make out with your insurance claim?

Rinty

 

[shoeman]

A friend of mine owns a car wash business in Rock Hill, SC. He recieves 5-10 calls a day with some claim against his car wash for "damage" to cars. Not scratches but things like failed oil pump, leaking head gaskets, dead batteries etc. People trying to bilk an honest businessman. He replies politely and sends them packing. Insurance is much the same. I have great sympathy for adjusters. I would find it hard to be sympathetic after a rash of obviously false claims.

 

[ALIENHITCHHIKER]

Can anyone give me an opinion or any experience in this area? I understand from a legal eagle that I have to prove that the accident caused the failure rather than the insurance company proving that it didn't.... Help, help, help.

It is well established that the ABS system of a BMW motorcycle, when subjected to acute deceleration forces, such as those encountered in a motor vehicle accident, often sustains obliterative damage to the negative ion conduction mechanisms found within the central processing unit of the system resulting in dysfunction of the sensing and/or modulating abilities of said system exhibited by a complete absence of operationality.

Feel free to share this with your insurance adjuster. I think it will help.

You can also tell him that I have a Masters degree in science.

 

[ANDYVH]

And here I thought you were really giving me an answer as to why my ABS modulator permanently failed after my accident in 98 (the bike fell on me in a ditch and hit nothing). Prior to that it simply didn't like the multiple cold morning/low voltage starts I subjected it too.

No matter, I replaced the faulty modulator long ago. But I still have the old one sitting around.