Bing type 54/84 experiment

[typ181r90]

Got the velocity stacks in from Argentina today and I'm pretty impressed with the quality. The filter element is much more dense than the ebay pictures made it seem and I think they'll filter dust very nicely and the plastic is nice and flexible. My only complaint is that the ad said the fitment range was 35-55mm and I really doubt that. It was a pain getting it over my 45mm OD intake, but I guess the tight fit should mean less of a chance for an air leak.

It's about 9pm here, pouring, and I have to leave for my night shift in a little bit so I didn't get a chance to put the carbs on the bike and probably won't have time for a good test run/tune till at the very earliest this weekend. In the meantime here's some pics.

The stacks in comparison to the stock intake duct

As fitted on the carb. It looks like it's barely on the carb, but there's a good 10mm or so secured on the stack.

 

[typ181r90]

Got the carbs mounted on the bike after nearly completely killing the battery, got the bike running. I really had to lean out the mixture to get the bike started and idling, like 5 complete turns out or so, and I'm thinking of maybe going to a smaller pilot jet but there's still a quite a bit of adjustment left on the screw so maybe I'll just leave it.

Once running I found the performance to be sluggish with the needle clip position 3rd from the top (rich) with the 2.70 jets. I took the bike for a 5 mile ride just to really experiment at various throttle positions and that mid-range was really kinda killing it. When I got home I changed the needle clip position to the top (leanest) and this made all the difference. Took the bike out for another 5 mile ride and it performed significantly better but I think there's still a little room for improvement. I think I'll switch to the stock 2.68s and start the tuning all over again, but that'll wait for another day as it started raining here.

As it stands now, the throttle response much more smooth throughout the rev range than with the stock CV carbs which I wasn't expecting at all, and immediately off the throttle it's a little bit snappier but not as much as I expected. They're performing close to identical to the stock carbs but maybe this will change when I finish ironing out the jetting.
As it stands now I'm using the following:

160 MJs
2.7 NJs - going to change to 2.68s
45 PJs - may change to 40s
240 needles
Needle clip in top position



Mounted to indicate length of velocity stack in relation to the airbox

Up and running

Also going to have to figure out what I'm going to do with the crankcase vent hose, right now it's just relieving to the engine case which is unacceptable

 

[lmo1131]

Also going to have to figure out what I'm going to do with the crankcase vent hose,

A puke tank with a breather mounted on top to the transmission; crankcase vent line in, with a drain plug/breather to empty it when full?

Or... ?

Unless you intend to track this bike I doubt that you'll be flogging it to the point that you need a tank as big as the one in the photo.

Maybe something more along the lines of a "filter" would be cleaner (aesthetically).

See:http://www.cruisercustomizing.com/emgo-crankcase-vent-filter-kit-w-chrome-base/part/EMGO-14-20900

Check out Shane's restoration thread for some ideas, like ...

 

[typ181r90]

A puke tank with a breather mounted on top to the transmission; crankcase vent line in, with a drain plug/breather to empty it when full?

Or... ?

Unless you intend to track this bike I doubt that you'll be flogging it to the point that you need a tank as big as the one in the photo.

Maybe something more along the lines of a "filter" would be cleaner (aesthetically).

See:http://www.cruisercustomizing.com/emgo-crankcase-vent-filter-kit-w-chrome-base/part/EMGO-14-20900

Check out Shane's restoration thread for some ideas, like ...

I've seen those filter pods but always thought they'd probably wind up leaking out of there onto the case anyway., it would be the easiest "fix" in my situation. I've actually been thinking about welding up a container of sorts to place in the void left by the airbox, but I kinda like that empty space being there.

As for Shane's build, no offense to the guy but paying someone to build you a bike (or porsche) just isn't my cup of tea and I find myself getting annoyed reading it. It's like watching the recreations of the Mille Miglia on HD Theater and realizing that the people doing it are just rich guys that bought the cars, don't know how to fix them, and the whole thing isn't even really a race anymore. I wish I had the money to own certain cars or bikes, but I personally would rather build the bike I want myself, with what I can afford, like the original hot rodders and cafe racers. /end rant

that bike you posted is nice, you don't really see too many of those Krauser 4 valves anywhere

 

[helmut_head]

As for Shane's build, no offense to the guy but paying someone to build you a bike (or porsche) just isn't my cup of tea and I find myself getting annoyed reading it. It's like watching the recreations of the Mille Miglia on HD Theater and realizing that the people doing it are just rich guys that bought the cars, don't know how to fix them, and the whole thing isn't even really a race anymore. I wish I had the money to own certain cars or bikes, but I personally would rather build the bike I want myself, with what I can afford, like the original hot rodders and cafe racers. /end rant

I'm with ya, man. Although some things need to be done by a pro.

 

[aphillips66]

Jet info

well I played around with the jetting again today and found that the 2.7 with the needle clip in the leanest position was the best option, I didn't mess around with the pilot jet.

...but I'd say only if your stock ones are shot or in need of replacing.

again, here's my jetting if anyone else wants to give it a go:

160 MJs
2.7 NJs - Needle clip in top position
45 PJs
240 needles

Thanks for this information. It may come in handy for my /5 track bike.

 

[dennisdarrow]

Are the floats for that carb REALLY the same as original in the /6 bikes?????......If so, please post where to get them and the cost perhaps.......Thanks.....God bless.....Dennis

 

[dennisdarrow]

As for Shane's build, no offense to the guy but paying someone to build you a bike (or porsche) just isn't my cup of tea and I find myself getting annoyed reading it. It's like watching the recreations of the Mille Miglia on HD Theater and realizing that the people doing it are just rich guys that bought the cars, don't know how to fix them, and the whole thing isn't even really a race anymore.

+ 3K over and over.......

That thread is blatant conspicuous consumerism by a guy who thinks it's just great and the acceptable way to join the "brotherhood"..............Those that support this line of thought are missing the point of the millions of miles that have brought us to the place we are at. Off my soapbox; but I find the thinking that creates this kind of assemblage of parts by non-riders far from acceptable from those of us who layed down the foundation............God bless......Dennis

 

[amiles]

While you are experimenting,

I'd be curious as to how the velocity stacks worked on your original Carb as well as how the replacement carbs worked with the stock air system.???

 

[typ181r90]

Are the floats for that carb REALLY the same as original in the /6 bikes?????......If so, please post where to get them and the cost perhaps.......Thanks.....God bless.....Dennis

yup, you can find the part numbers in the Bing books and order direct from Bing, I don't remember offhand how much they were but it wasn't cheap. They tend to pop up on ebay now and again

 

[typ181r90]

Thanks for this information. It may come in handy for my /5 track bike.

for your track bike I'd go with a bigger carb size than stock, like I said I couldn't eke out any more power than the stock ones, you might do better to go for 34-38mm size which they do make

Personally I found some dell'ortos really cheap and they'll be going on my bike next. If you do try and use a bigger carb size than stock I'd be interested in seeing the results. In my case I was only able to find a part of Bing 84s in 32mm size and that's why I experimented with those, the 54s come in bigger sizes but I just couldn't find a good pair anywhere for a price that you could afford to experiment with

The nice thing about these carbs though are that all of the jets are interchangeable, as well as the floats and other parts. Many can even be bought from BMW instead of Bing if you search through the microfiche

 

[typ181r90]

While you are experimenting,

I'd be curious as to how the velocity stacks worked on your original Carb as well as how the replacement carbs worked with the stock air system.???

the velocity stacks wouldn't fit over the inlets on the stock type 64s so I never got to try that out. That was a shame because those stacks were really nice and I wanted to keep them for the stock ones but oh well. Didn't try to adapt the stock intakes to the carbs because I was never able to get anymore power than stock using the Bing 84s in 32mm. Like I said earlier, I probably would have been able to see a benefit by using a 34mm choke carb or perhaps even a 38, but just wasn't able to find a good pair of carbs to experiment with

 

[typ181r90]

+ 3K over and over.......

That thread is blatant conspicuous consumerism by a guy who thinks it's just great and the acceptable way to join the "brotherhood"..............Those that support this line of thought are missing the point of the millions of miles that have brought us to the place we are at. Off my soapbox; but I find the thinking that creates this kind of assemblage of parts by non-riders far from acceptable from those of us who layed down the foundation............God bless......Dennis

glad I'm not the only one

 

[20774]

On the other hand...hmmm...

There are people who DO enjoy that sort of thing...this forum has all kinds of residents. Personnally, I'm a stock-bike kind of guy. Can't say I seek out choppers, cafe rides, farkles, I'd never ride a SS1000 or Iron Butt ride, etc. Some people see outside the box better than I do, though...

Bottom line...if it isn't your cup of joe, don't visit those threads or change the channel. Pretty simple really!!

 

[krpntr]

diy or pay to play

Rant on: I'm a stock kind of guy too, but that is because there is more information available for me to diy. My background is residential remodel and there is an enormous amount of unnecessary money thrown into kitchens and bathrooms and additions. The work may be simple or complex, it does not matter. The pleasure of wrenching or slapping nails or standing back and watching a pro do his thing is all relative. If I wanted to wrench on a cafe bike I would own a Norton. I like to ride and do my own maintenance, but when I am in over my head I do not hesitate to seek help or advice from more knowledgeable individuals. And yes, even pay for the privilege. There is no way I would expect a nurse to change out a bathroom or kitchen sink, nor would I expect him to want to immerse his hands in the petrol-chemicals mechanics are always dipping into. That he has the cash to hire the work out means the money is being spread around. He is getting a beautiful product and people in niche professions are getting their bills paid. All you builders out there will eventually need a nurse. Do you want one with fingernails like mine? I think not. My hat is off to Shane for spreading the wealth and to all you guys for spreading the knowledge. Rant off.

 

[8ninety8]

Back to the carb thing, my 900 has just turned 300 miles on new rings and a head refurb. The original Dels are running super. ONe thing done during bolt-up was the use of teflon-yellow tape in connecting the venturied spigots to the head, and rigid doweling of the inlet with a screw.

In the foggy past the carbs were loose to actually move a little in the head threads, which I suspect allowed air into the intake that could not be tuned, and I had a heck ov'a time adjusting the idle.

Now, with the inlets sealed, it idles like new, and rips past 6k with abandon. Although I've kept RPMs under redline, exercising it between 4K and 6K. Still runs rich, am not installing one step up 262 midrange jets, as someone had suggested. Rich because when descending steep hill, backing off in third and second gear gives slight backfire, which I kinda like. There's some extra gas in them there headers. Sounds like the old CJ 428. No baiting intended.

That is, standard 38 Dels running through 35mm tapered inlets, standard jets and needle setting, 336 cam, in my mind this bike will run flat out wide open, hoping I balanced those tires correctly. Stock is always a good place to start. Keep the rubber down, head down, one knee back, and wide open eyes.

 

[20774]

Rich running during break-in is a good thing...it keeps things a tad cooler.

 

[8ninety8]

Inside of the muffler opening has always given a black wipe to the finger. No tan. Plugs look good. Mileage, haven't checked. First long ride I'll zero the meter and keep track. It used to give about 43-45mpg. Cool tan may be too lean? A little soot means a cool exhaust valve? I can feel the lightened wrist pins under 4K. Less reciprocating weight equals less mass to smooth out the vibes. But a quicker spin of the crank. Same with a drilled flywheel.

Keeping the standard mains and needle position, black tailpipe or no.

 

[dennisdarrow]

Light tan or creamy coffee brown is PERFECT for plugs and a light grey to nothing exhaust is what you are after. Fantastic that you are there...........God bless.......Dennis