Are Maintenance Schedules Deal Killers?

[88bmwjeff]

Has maintenance schedules every been a deal killer in purchasing a vehicle? As mentioned in my First Bike Advice Thread, I’m looking at few bikes for my son. One of which is the Yamaha MT-03. It’s gotten good reviews and is reasonably priced, and this being the end of the summary and model year, there are some good rebates on new ones. But, when I checked the manual (luckily, they’re online these days), the oil change frequency is every 3,000 miles or 6 months, and spark plugs every 7,000 miles or yearly. That seems very frequent for modern vehicles. If he ends up riding the bike a lot instead of taking a car, he could be changing the oil 3-4 times a year. And, I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around a spark plug that can only go 7,000 miles.

So, I’m wondering how many of you would accept with a vehicle with above average maintenance schedules, or would you avoid purchasing it all together.

 

[GTRider]

If you like the bike, buy it and maintain it per the mfgr’s recommendation through the warranty period, then maintain it on what you consider to be a reasonable schedule. For me, that would be oil/filter changes at 5-6k intervals, spark plug at 12k or any major service, and so on. As for impacting purchase decisions, one has to ponder the inverse—how many buy a particular brand or model because it calls for more extended service intervals?

Best,
DeVern

 

[pauls1150]

Any bike that shares its oil between the engine and transmission should have its oil changed regularly; if it has a slipper clutch, it becomes even more important. After break-in, though, 3000 miles may be wasteful and extravagant... possibly Yamaha CYA'ing.
I haven't seen HP and torque specs, but being Japanese, it's likely a "high spinner"; that plus its high compression ratio (11.3:1) could shorten a plug's life - but iridium or platinum plugs will last longer.
Be happy it's not a 4-valve Ducati...

 

[kickstandsup]

It depends...

If I'm doing my own maintenance, frequency matters less b/c it costs less...

If I'm not going to keep the vehicle for very long, it matters less b/c it will be gone...

If the maintenance is "easy" (i.e., easy to do, easy to access), it matters less b/c it is quick for me or a mechanic...

In other words, it is use-case specific...for me...

 

[88bmwjeff]

If you like the bike, buy it and maintain it per the mfgr’s recommendation through the warranty period, then maintain it on what you consider to be a reasonable schedule. For me, that would be oil/filter changes at 5-6k intervals, spark plug at 12k or any major service, and so on. As for impacting purchase decisions, one has to ponder the inverse—how many buy a particular brand or model because it calls for more extended service intervals?

Best,
DeVern

Thanks for the insight.

 

[88bmwjeff]

Any bike that shares its oil between the engine and transmission should have its oil changed regularly; if it has a slipper clutch, it becomes even more important.

Why it does have a slipper clutch; however, I'm not knowledgeable with regards to the difference. Time to search it up.

According to Yamaha's Website:
A new Assist & Slipper (A&S) clutch utilizes an assist cam and slipper cam to help inhibit excessive engine braking for a smooth, easy-to-handle feeling during downshifts while also reducing the amount of force required to pull the clutch lever for less hand fatigue.

 

[tsconver]

Slipper clutch is exactly that, it slips to ease engagement on downshifts especially. They create more heat and more shear wearing out oil faster.

 

[codfish]

In the Police Motorcycle business we called them wet and dry. The wet clutch (Kawasaki K1000) allowed for much more forgiving tight riding because you could literally slip the clutch while mashing down the rear brake and stand the bike up to avoid a fall down. Try that with a dry clutch (BMW K75RTP) and you had to be much more aware of the balance as the dry clutch was not forgiving at all as far as slipping goes.

 

[rhbike]

There seems to be a bit of misunderstanding of what a slipper clutch is.

The K1600's have slipper clutches, yet recommend a 6000 mile oil change interval. So, for a 3000 mile oil change interval to be recommended, there must be something else going on in that particular Yamaha motor.

With the number of oil burning threads I read of these days of modern day motorbike and car forums, I gotta wonder if the oddly short oil change interval is to mask oil burning...

 

[88bmwjeff]

Thanks everyone. I needed a dose of reality. I get that nothing is perfect and we need to accept the nuances of whatever we're dealing with. I guess my son (and I) will deal with the more frequent R&R for oil and plugs. With the discounts available, the bike is about 20% off of MSRP, and we'll see if they go any lower, but I'm not holding my breath. It seems to be a reasonable deal--maybe not the most ideal, but reasonable.

 

[PGlaves]

Thanks everyone. I needed a dose of reality. I get that nothing is perfect and we need to accept the nuances of whatever we're dealing with. I guess my son (and I) will deal with the more frequent R&R for oil and plugs. With the discounts available, the bike is about 20% off of MSRP, and we'll see if they go any lower, but I'm not holding my breath. It seems to be a reasonable deal--maybe not the most ideal, but reasonable.

I admit I am biased by my hobby (working on motorcycles) but it sounds to me like a golden opportunity for your son to learn how to do oil changes and spark plug replacements; and maybe some more wrenching tidbits.

 

[zer0netgain]

I check with other owners of the vehicle I’m looking at to answer such questions. The maintenance schedule is mostly CYA and warranty-necessitated. I change oil once a year, not on mileage…unless I do an insane trip (e.g., cross country) in the early part of the year. Oil doesn’t go bad that fast from sitting. I also spend for top quality oil that has lab proof of offering superior protection.

With spark plugs, I normally upgrade to platinum or iridium plugs because they are self-cleaning…extending useful life. My RS doesn’t have this option, so I replace the plugs at the recommended mileage…which last time showed perfectly good plugs.

 

[jdub53]

I just looked it up, and apparently the MT-03 engine oil capacity is just 2.2 quarts. My Tenere 700's engine oil capacity is 2.7 quarts, and Yamaha recommends 4,000 mile oil change intervals for it which I consider reasonable (like the 6k mile change intervals for my Camhead RT with 4-quart oil capacity). IMO, 3,000 mile oil changes for a smaller (321cc) engine that'll be likely seeing higher revs isn't outrageously conservative.

 

[oldcamper]

Oil changes are quick and easy. 2 quarts of Mobile One 15-50 is only about 10 minutes and 10 bucks. If the bike starts and runs well spark plugs should last 30k. Valve sets are a different issue. Threaded adjusters are usually OK but shim under bucket can be a test of ability and a significant routine maintenance cost consideration if dealer involvement is necessary.

 

[brorke]

Its a factor for me when considering bikes. These days I want to ride more and work on my bike less. No big deal on oil changes and easy stuff. But I want at least 12k mile valve check intervals.

 

[pauls1150]

apparently the MT-03 engine oil capacity is just 2.2 quarts.

Low capacity would be an Excellent reason to change it more often.

 

[bc1100s]

Slipper clutch is exactly that, it slips to ease engagement on downshifts especially. They create more heat and more shear wearing out oil faster.

To be clear....

A slipper clutch, as equipped on certain BMWs and many sportbikes, allows the plates to slip if a violent downshift occurs. It stops the rear wheel from locking up. They do not slip under normal operation/circumstances - unless you're typically ham-fisted.

More heat and wears the oil out faster? I think not, but that's just my opinion.

And pauls1150 is bang on the money .

 

[kbasa]

I admit I am biased by my hobby (working on motorcycles) but it sounds to me like a golden opportunity for your son to learn how to do oil changes and spark plug replacements; and maybe some more wrenching tidbits.

Kinda my take too. Knowing how to take care of one’s things is important and builds mechanical empathy. My nephews bloomed into full car nerds after wrenching on theirs.

 

[tsconver]

To be clear....

A slipper clutch, as equipped on certain BMWs and many sportbikes, allows the plates to slip if a violent downshift occurs. It stops the rear wheel from locking up. They do not slip under normal operation/circumstances - unless you're typically ham-fisted.

More heat and wears the oil out faster? I think not, but that's just my opinion.

And pauls1150 is bang on the money .

More clutch slip causes more shear on the oil which breaks down the viscosity.

 

[PGlaves]

More clutch slip causes more shear on the oil which breaks down the viscosity.

I agree - that is a true statement. But to put it in perspective, compared to the shear at the main bearings and con-rod bearings, and the shear at the rings and cylinders, and the shear at the cam followers, and the shear at all the transmission gears and bearings the shear when the slipper clutch may slip occasionally on an abrupt downshift is rather minor.